post the brum draw last year we had basically throbbed it
the sperz game confirmed it
but the wigan and blackburn game were basically end of season unfriendlies
annoying and embarrasin2 lose
but not important games in any sense
Get your coat arsene you useless twat!
-
flash gunner
- Posts: 29243
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:55 am
- Location: Armchairsville. FACT.
Having fucked it up ar sp*rs a few days before the Wigan game was far from dead.... the chavs went to sp*rs and lost too so it opened up for us again if we had beaten Wigan which we didnt due to Wengers appalling choice of keepershighburyJD wrote:post the brum draw last year we had basically throbbed it
the sperz game confirmed it
but the wigan and blackburn game were basically end of season unfriendlies
annoying and embarrasin2 lose
but not important games in any sense
-
highburyJD
- Posts: 4982
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm
- Location: Highbury
-
flash gunner
- Posts: 29243
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:55 am
- Location: Armchairsville. FACT.
-
highburyJD
- Posts: 4982
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm
- Location: Highbury
[quote="Percy Dalton"]I agree that this thread has got unnecessarily abusive but I would suggest this ill feeling is a very clear sign of the dissatisfaction with Wenger.
Wenger came to the club with two clear targets to acheive, To modernise the football club as a whole and to bring success to the team and the fans.
He quite obviously acheived both of these goals in his early days and he will always be remembered and congratulated on this.
However, there is no more modernisation of the club to be done and has not been for some years. Since Wenger changed the clubs methods and processes enough time has elapsed that most other 'major'clubs have looked at the model and have followed suit. That is how much time has passed.
That now only leaves Wenger one goal and that is to bring silverware to the club. For the last five years he has failed to do this and compounded this failure with the use of frankly laughable, shocking, contradicting and derisory excuses.
Unfortunately some of the excuses used to defend Wenger by the Arsene Knows movement are equally as laughable. I see that Arsene is being defended with claims that a CL quarter final is something to be celebrated. It is often said that nobody remembers the beaten finalist in any competition but some of us want to trumpet the acheivements of losing a quarter final? I totally understand that we cannot win every pot, every season but out of a possible twenty trophies available to the first team over the last five years we have won nothing.
So to summarise, our manager, with one specific goal, has failed to deliver any credible silverware over the past five seasons. In what other line of work would such perfomance be tolerated yet alone celebrated?
Five years ago Arsene was a god to us all but with hindsight it is very easy to spot the deteoriation in his leadership. The scandal of losing Pires over a two year contract and subsequently offering the exact same to Silvestre. The failure to replace genuinely outstanding players with those of the same quality instead relying on the development of skilled youngsters whose progress cannot be guaranteed. The change of policy that saw technically fantastic players with the required physical attributes for the English game with ones of the same skill but who can be easliy bullied and regarded as a soft touch.
Put simply, split Wenger's reign into to eras. Pre 2005 versus post 2005. Can anyone seriously say the two are comparable? There is a thread on here asking what part of Arsenal's history would you like to be transformed to? In the future, how many will answer the golden years of 2005 to 2010?
I see that some of us are labelled spoilt, incorrectly. Questioning how Invincibles are turned into also rans and yet still heralded as great is a justified concern. Nobody is spitting the dummy over one lean year or one shock FA Cup defeat but we are complaining about what is now a sustained period of failure which could have ben avoided if a more progressive approach was taken by Wenger.
The man himself told us to judge him in May and he was. Wenger being the god he is to some was even given the benefit of doubt in May that yet another obvious failure would be rectified in the summer. It has not.
How many chances do you give one person, on a tidy £6 million a year, to deliver the aims for which he is ultimately employed?[/quote]
Everything I have highlighted is either a matter of opinion ( suprisingly the realists are lapping it up ) or complete speculation. For example, the ill feeling you describe as being a result of the dissatisfaction with AW is putting a realist's slant on things. From an impartial point of view it could easily be said that the ill feeling is down to a disagreement among fans. Or from a rosetinter's point of view it could be said that the ill feeling is due to strong support for Wenger.
No more modernisation ? ( matter of opinion ) Excuses being laughable ( matter of opinion ) CL quater final being celebrated ( matter of opinion, although we never got there before AW arrived ), Losing Pires a SCANDAL ? ( matter of opinion, Fantastic player but had seen his best days surely ) labelled spoilt, incorrectly ? ( matter of opinion ) Sustained period of failure ? ( matter of opinion, but if only winning a trophy is considered success then 99% of clubs are failures. A lack of success does not signify failure. ) As for Wenger 'only having one goal', if that's what you fellas see than you're crazy . And lastly, the number of chances you give someone is, again, a matter of opinion.
Big suprise that the old realists are blindly bigging you up for your effort, but it's all a matter of opinion Bud'..you ain't neccesarily right !
Wenger came to the club with two clear targets to acheive, To modernise the football club as a whole and to bring success to the team and the fans.
He quite obviously acheived both of these goals in his early days and he will always be remembered and congratulated on this.
However, there is no more modernisation of the club to be done and has not been for some years. Since Wenger changed the clubs methods and processes enough time has elapsed that most other 'major'clubs have looked at the model and have followed suit. That is how much time has passed.
That now only leaves Wenger one goal and that is to bring silverware to the club. For the last five years he has failed to do this and compounded this failure with the use of frankly laughable, shocking, contradicting and derisory excuses.
Unfortunately some of the excuses used to defend Wenger by the Arsene Knows movement are equally as laughable. I see that Arsene is being defended with claims that a CL quarter final is something to be celebrated. It is often said that nobody remembers the beaten finalist in any competition but some of us want to trumpet the acheivements of losing a quarter final? I totally understand that we cannot win every pot, every season but out of a possible twenty trophies available to the first team over the last five years we have won nothing.
So to summarise, our manager, with one specific goal, has failed to deliver any credible silverware over the past five seasons. In what other line of work would such perfomance be tolerated yet alone celebrated?
Five years ago Arsene was a god to us all but with hindsight it is very easy to spot the deteoriation in his leadership. The scandal of losing Pires over a two year contract and subsequently offering the exact same to Silvestre. The failure to replace genuinely outstanding players with those of the same quality instead relying on the development of skilled youngsters whose progress cannot be guaranteed. The change of policy that saw technically fantastic players with the required physical attributes for the English game with ones of the same skill but who can be easliy bullied and regarded as a soft touch.
Put simply, split Wenger's reign into to eras. Pre 2005 versus post 2005. Can anyone seriously say the two are comparable? There is a thread on here asking what part of Arsenal's history would you like to be transformed to? In the future, how many will answer the golden years of 2005 to 2010?
I see that some of us are labelled spoilt, incorrectly. Questioning how Invincibles are turned into also rans and yet still heralded as great is a justified concern. Nobody is spitting the dummy over one lean year or one shock FA Cup defeat but we are complaining about what is now a sustained period of failure which could have ben avoided if a more progressive approach was taken by Wenger.
The man himself told us to judge him in May and he was. Wenger being the god he is to some was even given the benefit of doubt in May that yet another obvious failure would be rectified in the summer. It has not.
How many chances do you give one person, on a tidy £6 million a year, to deliver the aims for which he is ultimately employed?[/quote]
Everything I have highlighted is either a matter of opinion ( suprisingly the realists are lapping it up ) or complete speculation. For example, the ill feeling you describe as being a result of the dissatisfaction with AW is putting a realist's slant on things. From an impartial point of view it could easily be said that the ill feeling is down to a disagreement among fans. Or from a rosetinter's point of view it could be said that the ill feeling is due to strong support for Wenger.
No more modernisation ? ( matter of opinion ) Excuses being laughable ( matter of opinion ) CL quater final being celebrated ( matter of opinion, although we never got there before AW arrived ), Losing Pires a SCANDAL ? ( matter of opinion, Fantastic player but had seen his best days surely ) labelled spoilt, incorrectly ? ( matter of opinion ) Sustained period of failure ? ( matter of opinion, but if only winning a trophy is considered success then 99% of clubs are failures. A lack of success does not signify failure. ) As for Wenger 'only having one goal', if that's what you fellas see than you're crazy . And lastly, the number of chances you give someone is, again, a matter of opinion.
Big suprise that the old realists are blindly bigging you up for your effort, but it's all a matter of opinion Bud'..you ain't neccesarily right !
How do you know Martin Keown can coach to the required standard?. Even if he has the relevant badges that does not mean he will necessarily be a good coach, does it. And if he was that good anyway why hasn't another top club aquired his services?. Is this another case of a daft fan thinking he knows best because he's watched for a few years?. SchmuckQuartzGooner wrote:Unwarranted vitriol on this thread.
Wenger has made mistakes.
Amongst them:
1) Biggest of them in my opinion is not employing Keown as defensive coach, a proven success in the role.
2) Concentrated too much on short passing in training at expense of set pieces (I know this is a fact because a player told me and anyone who thinks I made it up I could not care less).
3) He has also made a number of tactical mistakes, especially baffling substitutions.
4) Shown faith in Diaby and Denilson beyond my tolerance!
Yet there are other things going on.
Amongst them:
1) New stadium meant money would always be tighter.
2) Other clubs have richer owners than in our golden era of 1997 - 2006.
3) Dein's departure rocked the club more than they might care to admit, though Gazidis is now on board.
4) Injury crisis each season, though club is now investigating.
All things considered, Wenger gets a grade B+ from me, but we need things back to the A and A+ he used to get 1997 - 2006.
-
the playing mantis
- Posts: 4811
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:36 pm
- Location: EX
it was widely acknowledged that when keown was coaching the defence improved massively...i suppose that was a massive coincidence though louder.....
keown hasnt gone to coach another club as he has a cushy highly paid media job, that he would leave only for one club as hes loyal.
your pulling apart of percys post is laughabe, even one of the king of the tinters BDB agrees with a lot of it, all is rosy in the arsenal garden isnt it and the reason we didn sign a keeper, even though we can afford one is because Arsen knows.......
re gooner marcs post, you say AW didnt make it obvious he was trying to get a new gk as to not undermine his current keepers (or words to that affect) well that a load of bollox, he said he didnt know who his number 1 was an almunia came out in the evening standard saying all the speculation was unsettling him. so basically that point you made is tosh.
keown hasnt gone to coach another club as he has a cushy highly paid media job, that he would leave only for one club as hes loyal.
your pulling apart of percys post is laughabe, even one of the king of the tinters BDB agrees with a lot of it, all is rosy in the arsenal garden isnt it and the reason we didn sign a keeper, even though we can afford one is because Arsen knows.......
re gooner marcs post, you say AW didnt make it obvious he was trying to get a new gk as to not undermine his current keepers (or words to that affect) well that a load of bollox, he said he didnt know who his number 1 was an almunia came out in the evening standard saying all the speculation was unsettling him. so basically that point you made is tosh.
Well if BDB agrees it must be truethe playing mantis wrote:it was widely acknowledged that when keown was coaching the defence improved massively...i suppose that was a massive coincidence though louder.....
keown hasnt gone to coach another club as he has a cushy highly paid media job, that he would leave only for one club as hes loyal.
your pulling apart of percys post is laughabe, even one of the king of the tinters BDB agrees with a lot of it, all is rosy in the arsenal garden isnt it and the reason we didn sign a keeper, even though we can afford one is because Arsen knows.......
re gooner marcs post, you say AW didnt make it obvious he was trying to get a new gk as to not undermine his current keepers (or words to that affect) well that a load of bollox, he said he didnt know who his number 1 was an almunia came out in the evening standard saying all the speculation was unsettling him. so basically that point you made is tosh.
I'll make it easy as I don't have, or want to spend, too much time tapping away. All that's underlined is pure guess work ( all too common with realists ). And all in bold is only a matter of opinion, your opinion, which loses its value as soon as you start to ASS-U-ME. Do you ever deal in facts in your day to day life ?
It's like hitting my head off a f!*king rock
Please don't let anyone here try and talk you out of doing that.Louder wrote:Well if BDB agrees it must be truethe playing mantis wrote:it was widely acknowledged that when keown was coaching the defence improved massively...i suppose that was a massive coincidence though louder.....
keown hasnt gone to coach another club as he has a cushy highly paid media job, that he would leave only for one club as hes loyal.
your pulling apart of percys post is laughabe, even one of the king of the tinters BDB agrees with a lot of it, all is rosy in the arsenal garden isnt it and the reason we didn sign a keeper, even though we can afford one is because Arsen knows.......
re gooner marcs post, you say AW didnt make it obvious he was trying to get a new gk as to not undermine his current keepers (or words to that affect) well that a load of bollox, he said he didnt know who his number 1 was an almunia came out in the evening standard saying all the speculation was unsettling him. so basically that point you made is tosh.
All that's underlined is pure guess work ( all too common with realists ). And all in bold is only a matter of opinion, your opinion, which loses its value as soon as you start to ASS-U-ME. Do you ever deal in facts in your day to day life ?
It's like hitting my head off a f!*king rock
BTW - do any of your 73 posts contain any views of your own or are they just half witted responses to other posters. Been thumbing through the list of interesting threads you've created and we've come to the grand old total of......hmmm.......let me have a recount
Keep up the punditry though. Everything about that last post was, err..good.
Louder, you do realise Keown was defensive coach during our 2006 champions league run, don't you? The run where a defence containing Senderos and Eboue at points, was pretty solid in a way that hasn't been seen at the club since. The general gist for him leaving was he felt Wenger mollycoddled his players so they refused to take on criticism.
Earlier this month Amy Lawrence asked Wenger in her Observer interview 'do you see why people say you need a keeper?' he smiled sheepishly and said 'yes'. Its in print in by his own admission. Loris or the russian keeper were gettable if we'd paid market price. I bet we didn't even enquire. Just like Given was keen to join 18 months ago but claimed we werent in for him.
Maybe Wenger has set the bar high but he's cheating a whole generation of supporters and world class players such as Fabregas out of glory and their names in football history for the sake of some minor tweaks!
Earlier this month Amy Lawrence asked Wenger in her Observer interview 'do you see why people say you need a keeper?' he smiled sheepishly and said 'yes'. Its in print in by his own admission. Loris or the russian keeper were gettable if we'd paid market price. I bet we didn't even enquire. Just like Given was keen to join 18 months ago but claimed we werent in for him.
Maybe Wenger has set the bar high but he's cheating a whole generation of supporters and world class players such as Fabregas out of glory and their names in football history for the sake of some minor tweaks!
-
the playing mantis
- Posts: 4811
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:36 pm
- Location: EX
it was acknowledged in the media too.at the time... but i suppose professional journos are talking bollox and there opinions are crap too, even though thats what there paid to do.
louder, why dont you answer the question about the rosy arsenal garden then...AW is doing everything in his ability to make arsenal as competitive as possible?
yes or no? a simple 'realist' question, perhaps you can't be bothered to answer though cos whatever you answer will undermine your view.
how was it before you started following football in 96?
louder, why dont you answer the question about the rosy arsenal garden then...AW is doing everything in his ability to make arsenal as competitive as possible?
yes or no? a simple 'realist' question, perhaps you can't be bothered to answer though cos whatever you answer will undermine your view.
how was it before you started following football in 96?
-
clockendal
- Posts: 561
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:33 am
In fairness mate, you haven't even give the fella a chance have you ? "A simple yes or no, ah but regardless of what you say you will undermine your view"the playing mantis wrote:it was acknowledged in the media too.at the time... but i suppose professional journos are talking bollox and there opinions are crap too, even though thats what there paid to do.
louder, why dont you answer the question about the rosy arsenal garden then...AW is doing everything in his ability to make arsenal as competitive as possible?
yes or no? a simple 'realist' question, perhaps you can't be bothered to answer though cos whatever you answer will undermine your view.
how was it before you started following football in 96?
I've said this before on this forum, and I will say it again. Can we please get away from this "realist" vs "rosetinter" bollox. Because what it seems to boil down to, on this forum at least, is "right" vs "wrong"
That said, when I have made this point, the general concensus is "well that's the way we do the things round here, if you don't like it go to pravda.com and follow the sheep". Any difference from the "standard" "fuck off to spurs" from the "rosetinters" ?
We all love Arsenal, that I can see. And we could debate all night long the whys and wherefores as to who is right and who is wrong, and that is the funny thing, because there is NO right or wrong just your opinion. But for me, it seems as if this forum has descended into a place where there is no debate any more, merely a point scoring exercise against each other.
It seems all the "realists" are right. And anyone who dares to oppose that is an AKB or a "rosetinter" and then the whole "superfan" alert comes out. Why ? Just because certain people don't subscribe to your view that all is wrong at Arsenal ? I could go into detail about my history with The Arsenal, but why ? Would that qualify my opinion ?
I enjoy reading this forum, and it's good to see other peoples points of view on the way things are, but I think there should be a little more perspective.
-
Henry Norris 1913
- Posts: 8374
- Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:25 pm
-
Irish Gooner
- Posts: 3156
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:47 pm
- Location: Ireland
They only time I've seen superfan mentioned on here, is when a minority of the Wenger knows brigade, don't know how to reply to a point and thus start acting billy big bollox about going to 20 matches or certain away games.clockendal wrote: It seems all the "realists" are right. And anyone who dares to oppose that is an AKB or a "rosetinter" and then the whole "superfan" alert comes out. Why ? Just because certain people don't subscribe to your view that all is wrong at Arsenal ? I could go into detail about my history with The Arsenal, but why ? Would that qualify my opinion ?
I've seen 3 do this in the last few days, crocit told anyone who criticised Wenger to fuck off to Spurs. Norris said similar "I'm 19 but at least I attend matches".
And that AA23 chap who has spouted the same rubbish. I'm all for debate but these twats are just on a wind up.
I think some of them should be looked into especially norris and aa23, the are the same WUM in my opinion. Crocit is obviously genuine but it grates me the way he carrys on about away games meaning your opinion matters more but he seems alright otherwise.
