THE WENGER THREAD

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

He has just come out and said its false, and any extension will only be discussed AFTER next season.

Best thing for all in my opinion. He should only contemplate staying beyond next year if he wins the PL or CL - anything less and its goodbye. Hopefully this is his train of thought.

I think the protests have worked. I think he knows a growing majority now view him as unwelcome, and he isnt prepared to get cozy.

As posted several lines above

[NickF]

Great article by Henry Winter inside today with the headline, 'ARSENAL ARE INSANE TO EVEN CONSIDER GIVING WENGER A NEW DEAL'

Yep I was just gonna post that. Not sure if its available online, I read it waiting in the barbers. Worth a read though.

He also mentions how Koeman would be an ideal replacement but if he goes to Everton then there's another of the 'who can we replace him with' brigade lost.

It isn't available unless you subscribe to the Times.

Not sure why, but i could get to it (MODs please delete if cut/paste is not allowed):

Even the thought of Arsenal offering Arsène Wenger a two-year extension to a contract expiring in the summer of 2017 is as preposterous as it is presumptuous. It is inappropriate. It is insane. He has not earned it. Arsenal are drifting under Wenger, not driving towards glory. This season, Wenger has been outfoxed by Leicester City’s Claudio Ranieri and his 5,000-1 outsiders. He has been overtaken, barring a last-day slip, by a vibrant, well-organised young Tottenham Hotspur side and Mauricio Pochettino, their inspirational head coach. “Arsène Wenger — we want you to stay,” Spurs fans chant gleefully.

Under Wenger, and a compliant board, Arsenal continue to slide, not dangerously enough to slip out of the Champions League positions but still away from the silverware zone. This should have been the season when Arsenal seized their first title since 2004 with their traditional rivals in the Barclays Premier League, Manchester United, Manchester City and Chelsea, temporarily struggling. Two of those, probably all three, will return next season with strong new managers, with new ambition, and new signings.

Dear old Arsenal begin to resemble one of those upper-class spinsters in the background of a Jane Austen novel, turning increasingly bitter as the years pass, being pushed farther back from the dance floor. Wenger was once the leading pioneer in the dugout, the trophy-gathering perfectionist admired throughout the world. Now he’s not even the most forward-looking manager in north London.

He has nobody to challenge him, to question why he believes Olivier Giroud is a world-class centre forward, even when he himself admits Arsenal have not been “clinical enough” this season. Why doesn’t he have a Plan B? Why don’t his players shoot from outside the box? Why does he let his team overelaborate in build-ups, allowing opponents to organise the barricades?

Wenger has nobody to take him properly to task about recruitment. Where are the real midfield enforcers, especially elegant ones such as Patrick Vieira who could create as well as destroy? Where are the tough defensive leaders such as Tony Adams? It is sad really. There is much to admire about Wenger. There is the dignity (although he is a terrible loser), the willingness to give youth a chance (being rewarded in the excellence of Héctor Bellerín and Alex Iwobi) and his refusal to duck a question at press conferences. His commitment to attacking football should be cherished. But he has forgotten that the game is about trophies. Back-to-back FA Cups in 2014 and 2015 were memorable occasions but the leading honours, the Premier League and the Champions League, remain increasingly distant visions. Arsenal lack the ruthlessness, leadership and tactics to last the course in those.

Leicester are the antithesis of Arsenal; less obsessed with possession, and more with their successful blend of pressing, pace and directness. They look hungrier, fitter and less susceptible to injury. Riyad Mahrez, the PFA Player of the Year, and N’Golo Kanté, the Leicester players’ Player of the Year, are from the French heartlands that Wenger used to plunder.

During a long interview with Geoff Shreeves, the Sky Sports reporter, Wenger praised Leicester for their title triumph but pointed out that they would be exhausted next season with their pressing style and increased fixture workload. Yet Ranieri will strengthen his squad. Ranieri has been rewarded so handsomely this season because he has delivered wildly above expectations. If anybody deserves a handsome new contract, it is Ranieri (who is in talks with his club’s owners). Wenger doesn’t deserve one but the board is passive. Arsenal’s structure and philosophy is flawed. Wenger helped appoint his supposed boss, the chief executive, Ivan Gazidis. Under Stan Kroenke, the owner, the club’s business model appears focused simply on Champions League football. Arsenal do not need to be at the front of the Champions League gravy train as long as they are on it. The essence of sport, winning, has become secondary. A runner-up culture pervades.

They don’t fight hard enough. On January 2, Arsenal defeated Newcastle United 1-0 at home to move two points clear of Leicester at the top. Having taken 42 points from 20 games, Arsenal then faltered, and have since picked up 26 points from 17 matches. When the pressure was most intense, Arsenal faded. Leicester stood strong. Even the possibility of Wenger extending his stay will infuriate substantial sections of an Emirates Stadium simmering with an air of incipient civil war. Support is split over “Wenger out” and “Wenger knows best”, “in Arsène we trust” and “in Wenger we rust”. Perspective is required over the extent of the dissent towards the manager that all accept is the greatest in the club’s 130-year history. Two fans in dispute over a banner will inevitably be captured by the cameras, run on rolling news and debated on phone-ins, giving an impression that the tensions are rife.

Even those of us outsiders who believe Wenger should have gone years ago must acknowledge that the majority of Arsenal fans do not favour a change, partly out of blind loyalty and partly because they cannot summon up a better alternative (although Ronald Koeman looks a good fit).
Some apathy was reflected in the number of empty seats in the previous home game against Norwich City but the anticipated protest was a damp squib. Today’s news of a contract offer may focus minds, probably polarising the support even more. A great club risk becoming even more divided.

[Gunner Rob]

we all know that he hasn't got a hope of even competing for the title next season.

however Kroenke is happy with a top 4 finish and if Wenger gets it again then I can envisage a situation where he may well renew.
if the protests continue I would hope that he has the sense to not sign any new contract though.

the best way he can exit the club will be for him to announce after the usual CL exit in March 2017 that this will be his final season.
he will then get massive support until the end of the season from the AKBs and also relief from all the WOBs

I know if he did that then I would treat the last couple of months of next season as one long celebratory party, regardless of our league position

[scotgooner]

If he is offered a new deal then Arsenal can fuck off out my life for the time being.

As much as it breaks my heart I just can't.

[DB10GOONER]

Augie - I'd agree with that if it wasn't for all the other non sensical shite that Kim Jong Wanker comes out with. He is deluded and inoculated totally against the outside world. How many real fans do you think he talks to? How many of us mere peasants invade his privileged world??

I think the Top 4 is success bullshit stems more from him thinking that he's never wrong. He wants desperately to win the Premier and Champions League - when he comes up short time and time again it can't possibly be his fault so he falls back on the only thing he can which is consistency.

Ferguson would've hated finishing 3rd or 4th every year but he was made of stronger stuff than Wanker so he adapted and changed. Wanker can't do that as he would have to admit he was wrong.

This 100%. Anyone that thinks you get as far as Wenger got in management without being ambitious and wanting to win trophies is very out of touch with the real world. Wenger wants to win both the PL and CL. The problem is he only wants to win it on his terms, as dictated by his ego. The quote about a top 4 finish being like a trophy is disingenuous and an excuse - he is saying that even when he fails to win something it's because of other people or outside influences and that in spite of all that he has STILL brought us as much success as he could, given all those outside influences hampering him. It's bullshit from Wenger but it's typical media spin type bullshit from a football manager. All managers do it. Hard Man Pulis and BigFatSamAllThePies talk about themselves as if they are top managers because they avoided relegation a couple times ffs.

[rodders999]

(MODs please delete if cut/paste is not allowed)

You'd have to get rid of half the poster on here if cut and past were outlawed, you're fine

[DB10GOONER]

If he is offered a new deal then Arsenal can fuck off out my life for the time being.

As much as it breaks my heart I just can't.

I think I'm just about there too, tbh. The repetitive nature of it, the KNOWING he won't change and we would endure at least another 2 or 3 Groundhog Seasons is just too much. It's fucking depressing.

[DB10GOONER]

Great article by Henry Winter inside today with the headline, 'ARSENAL ARE INSANE TO EVEN CONSIDER GIVING WENGER A NEW DEAL'

Yep I was just gonna post that. Not sure if its available online, I read it waiting in the barbers. Worth a read though.

He also mentions how Koeman would be an ideal replacement but if he goes to Everton then there's another of the 'who can we replace him with' brigade lost.

It isn't available unless you subscribe to the Times.

Not sure why, but i could get to it (MODs please delete if cut/paste is not allowed):

It's fine, mate. Once the original author is creditted.

[begeegs]

It isn't available unless you subscribe to the Times.

Not sure why, but i could get to it (MODs please delete if cut/paste is not allowed):

Cheers Nick. Winter speaks a lot of sense and is one of the few journalists who actually are damning of Wenger - James Olley of the Standard is another one who is a good one.

[augie]

Augie - I'd agree with that if it wasn't for all the other non sensical shite that Kim Jong Wanker comes out with. He is deluded and inoculated totally against the outside world. How many real fans do you think he talks to? How many of us mere peasants invade his privileged world??

I think the Top 4 is success bullshit stems more from him thinking that he's never wrong. He wants desperately to win the Premier and Champions League - when he comes up short time and time again it can't possibly be his fault so he falls back on the only thing he can which is consistency.

Ferguson would've hated finishing 3rd or 4th every year but he was made of stronger stuff than Wanker so he adapted and changed. Wanker can't do that as he would have to admit he was wrong.

This 100%. Anyone that thinks you get as far as Wenger got in management without being ambitious and wanting to win trophies is very out of touch with the real world. Wenger wants to win both the PL and CL. The problem is he only wants to win it on his terms, as dictated by his ego. The quote about a top 4 finish being like a trophy is disingenuous and an excuse - he is saying that even when he fails to win something it's because of other people or outside influences and that in spite of all that he has STILL brought us as much success as he could, given all those outside influences hampering him. It's bullshit from Wenger but it's typical media spin type bullshit from a football manager. All managers do it. Hard Man Pulis and BigFatSamAllThePies talk about themselves as if they are top managers because they avoided relegation a couple times ffs.

Nobody is claiming that wenger was never ambitious, but I am saying that he no longer is driven by a need to win trophies. People say that his problem is that he only wants to win trophies his way, but I honestly don't think that is it - right now he is driven with the notion that he is building a superclub that will be massive and dominate in a few years time, and in the meantime he see's sacrificing trophies as acceptable. He still does not see that other clubs are winning trophies now and are still getting stronger every season, so it shouldn't be an either or scenario. Trophies now would be a bonus to his grand plan and not a fundamental part of it.
You can claim that the "top 4 trophy remark" is disingenuous (love your use of fancy words btw as though you are trying to suggest that not all dubs are pikey degenerates ), but look at the reality of his actions and words - if setting high standards and winning trophies was his main goal, why doesn't he ever criticise a performance and why does he rarely (if ever) drop a player ? That isn't about refusing to buy players, but is about being committed to a longer term plan that these players are vital to

[Chippy]

Great article by Henry Winter inside today with the headline, 'ARSENAL ARE INSANE TO EVEN CONSIDER GIVING WENGER A NEW DEAL'

Yep I was just gonna post that. Not sure if its available online, I read it waiting in the barbers. Worth a read though.

He also mentions how Koeman would be an ideal replacement but if he goes to Everton then there's another of the 'who can we replace him with' brigade lost.

It isn't available unless you subscribe to the Times.

Not sure why, but i could get to it (MODs please delete if cut/paste is not allowed):

It's fine, mate. Once the original author is creditted.

In fact I wish more people would do it so that I don't have to click through the fcuking Sun or Fail.

[Nos89]

So City and United are fighting for our fourth place vitual trophy and we are saying that we have no chance with the title next season already, on the basis that chelski, city will have new managers.

Firstly, there is no guarantee that success will fall into Guardiola's lap. It is the first club he will manage that needs a major overhaul of playing staff. Munich had completed a treble the season before he took them over. Barcelona were also successful and had the likes of messi, Xavi, Iniesta, david villa, puyol already in the first team, and look how much they have fallen away since he left? Believe it or not they have actually got better. Even Tim Sherwood would win the league with that Barcelona team. He needs to rebuild a team that may not even be in the Champions League.

At Chelski there seems to be something rotten in the club and whilst Conte did a fantastic job at Juventus, he's been out the loop of club football, and it is quite rare that a manager walks out of an international job, into a club job and is instantly successful. Scolari is a great example of this.

United will stick with Van gaal if he wants to stay. I'm not entirely sure everyone is on board at United with Mourinho as next manager especially the way he fell apart at both Madrid and Chelsea. I t appears that they would want pochetino after gaining champions league experience, which he will have next season.

Liverpool and Tottenham will be challenging at the top next season, along with us.

[rodders999]

Nobody is claiming that wenger was never ambitious, but I am saying that he no longer is driven by a need to win trophies. People say that his problem is that he only wants to win trophies his way, but I honestly don't think that is it - right now he is driven with the notion that he is building a superclub that will be massive and dominate in a few years time, and in the meantime he see's sacrificing trophies as acceptable.

Seeing him fist pumping with delight after the 2-2 at City last week is testament to that, not only embracing mediocrity but actively celebrating it.

[DB10GOONER]

Augie - I'd agree with that if it wasn't for all the other non sensical shite that Kim Jong Wanker comes out with. He is deluded and inoculated totally against the outside world. How many real fans do you think he talks to? How many of us mere peasants invade his privileged world??

I think the Top 4 is success bullshit stems more from him thinking that he's never wrong. He wants desperately to win the Premier and Champions League - when he comes up short time and time again it can't possibly be his fault so he falls back on the only thing he can which is consistency.

Ferguson would've hated finishing 3rd or 4th every year but he was made of stronger stuff than Wanker so he adapted and changed. Wanker can't do that as he would have to admit he was wrong.

This 100%. Anyone that thinks you get as far as Wenger got in management without being ambitious and wanting to win trophies is very out of touch with the real world. Wenger wants to win both the PL and CL. The problem is he only wants to win it on his terms, as dictated by his ego. The quote about a top 4 finish being like a trophy is disingenuous and an excuse - he is saying that even when he fails to win something it's because of other people or outside influences and that in spite of all that he has STILL brought us as much success as he could, given all those outside influences hampering him. It's bullshit from Wenger but it's typical media spin type bullshit from a football manager. All managers do it. Hard Man Pulis and BigFatSamAllThePies talk about themselves as if they are top managers because they avoided relegation a couple times ffs.

Nobody is claiming that wenger was never ambitious, but I am saying that he no longer is driven by a need to win trophies. People say that his problem is that he only wants to win trophies his way, but I honestly don't think that is it - right now he is driven with the notion that he is building a superclub that will be massive and dominate in a few years time, and in the meantime he see's sacrificing trophies as acceptable. He still does not see that other clubs are winning trophies now and are still getting stronger every season, so it shouldn't be an either or scenario. Trophies now would be a bonus to his grand plan and not a fundamental part of it.
You can claim that the "top 4 trophy remark" is disingenuous (love your use of fancy words btw as though you are trying to suggest that not all dubs are pikey degenerates ), but look at the reality of his actions and words - if setting high standards and winning trophies was his main goal, why doesn't he ever criticise a performance and why does he rarely (if ever) drop a player ? That isn't about refusing to buy players, but is about being committed to a longer term plan that these players are vital to

Firstly, all Dubs are degenerates, and proud to be. But not pikeys - that's your lot down the bogs, bud!

RE the bit in red - I'd say they are two separate issues. He never has (even when successful) really criticised a performance or his players. And again his ego dictates his actions regarding dropping players. He thinks they are good enough, so they are good enough. And he will not be told by others that they aren't. He will dig his heels in and retain and play a player long long past the point where everybody knows that player is either average or totally shite. The list of such players is endless.

I honestly don't think the main (of many) problem with Wenger is ambition (or lack thereof) - I honestly think it's his out of whack ego and self belief.

[Clash]

Augie - I'd agree with that if it wasn't for all the other non sensical shite that Kim Jong Wanker comes out with. He is deluded and inoculated totally against the outside world. How many real fans do you think he talks to? How many of us mere peasants invade his privileged world??

I think the Top 4 is success bullshit stems more from him thinking that he's never wrong. He wants desperately to win the Premier and Champions League - when he comes up short time and time again it can't possibly be his fault so he falls back on the only thing he can which is consistency.

Ferguson would've hated finishing 3rd or 4th every year but he was made of stronger stuff than Wanker so he adapted and changed. Wanker can't do that as he would have to admit he was wrong.

This 100%. Anyone that thinks you get as far as Wenger got in management without being ambitious and wanting to win trophies is very out of touch with the real world. Wenger wants to win both the PL and CL. The problem is he only wants to win it on his terms, as dictated by his ego. The quote about a top 4 finish being like a trophy is disingenuous and an excuse - he is saying that even when he fails to win something it's because of other people or outside influences and that in spite of all that he has STILL brought us as much success as he could, given all those outside influences hampering him. It's bullshit from Wenger but it's typical media spin type bullshit from a football manager. All managers do it. Hard Man Pulis and BigFatSamAllThePies talk about themselves as if they are top managers because they avoided relegation a couple times ffs.

Interesting point mate.

I know we are all focusing on Wenger;s inadequacies (and rightly so ) but it's not just Wenger or the likes of Mourinho, Pellegrini, van Gaal etc. that Ranieri and Leicester have shown up this season. It is also the likes of Pulis and Alladyce.

Both are managers lauded for their ''heroics'' in keeping teams up but shamefully they both start every season with the pretty pathetic aim of reaching 40 points and safety.

The game has been good to them, They are both multi-millionaires living in luxury ... yet both of them hide behind a similar defeatist shite and fear that plagues football these days.

Show some ambition you couple of tedious old fuckers.