The Gooner Forum

This country has always had immigration, the basis of controlling it is to select the people that come in .We need EU migrants in the NHS for example but probably not hand car washers.It's about filling the gaps in our workforce whilst we develop our indigenous population with learning schemes suited to the individual.

flash gunner wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:14 am

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:47 am

Allgunsblazin wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:32 am

Brightonnxtround wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:55 am

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:26 am

Do you look at body language when all these leaders meet. It says a lot. David Davies was struggling in quite a firm handshake with Michael Barnier. He also didn't look particularly comfortable in the press conference either. The thing that made me laugh was we gave the EU a book about climbing mountains, they gave us a walking stick!

On the subject of Brexit, the EU have already thrown out any prospect of trade talks in conjunction with the ongoing negotiations, it seems as though hard brexit is what will happen, unless of course the conservatives start fighting with each other, No matter what any brexiteer says there is nothing in place to make up for the damage WTO rules will have on our economy, even the US will jump into bed with the EU before they do with us. We have a weak out of touch Prime Minister, could have another election and more uncertainty ahead.

Not forgetting the £60bn we have to find to exit the EU, just a tad more than the £285m a week on the side of that battle bus that conveniently seems to have been forgotten now, The Europeans have the upper hand, anyone who cannot see that is sadly deluded imio.

We can always rely on you nut flush to bring us the good news ....

Our very own "Forum Soothsayer"
"Beware the Ides of March".....

Hang on a minute is it not unreasonable when you make such a monumental decision, to try and think out what the consequences are? Your predictions may be right they may be wrong, but it's better to make an educated guess than just ride roughshod over every piece of evidence that may suggest leaving the EU may do us more harm than good. Losing £60 bn from our coffers isn't a good start for sure.

We have to be very careful with the way we handle immigration too. When I was in hospital recently a large proportion of the staff both medical and non medical come from the EU. If they feel they are no longer welcome in this country and decide they want to go home,then we have got a huge potential problem. The same applies to care home staff.

Hope you're better now Nutty..... I don't understand the whole NHS immigration argument really, i don't know how it will work out for the government in these negotiations but if we introduced visas for EU nationals to work here when we leave and we (as we do now) still pay more than they can get from their country of origin then there will be no shortage of people wanting to work here.

I'm feeling much better now thanks.

But you see in your comments you are assuming that Europeans (and other immigrants) actually want to come and work here, which from what I have heard and seen isn't necessarily the case. What attracted the Eastern Europeans in 2004 was the vast gulf in the standard of living between the U.K. and the old Russian states. That gap has narrowed and coupled with the fact a lot of immigrants no longer feel welcome in the U.K. following the Brexit vote, has really damaged our reputation as somewhere to build a new life. The NHS has thousands of overseas workers from all over the world. I think I could count the number of British nurses I saw during my week in hopsital on one hand.

This is just another reason that I wanted to remain in the EU, like it or not every successful economy needs access to the best possible people to do the jobs that not only drive the economy but help functionality of public services such as healthcare. If the talent cannot be home sourced then we have to look elsewhere. The NHS really is at a tipping point right now, and we can't afford additional problems such as staff shortages, or we will seem worse patient outcomes and needless deaths.

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:24 am

Hang on a minute is it not unreasonable when you make such a monumental decision, to try and think out what the consequences are? Your predictions may be right they may be wrong, but it's better to make an educated guess than just ride roughshod over every piece of evidence that may suggest leaving the EU may do us more harm than good. Losing £60 bn from our coffers isn't a good start for sure.

We have to be very careful with the way we handle immigration too. When I was in hospital recently a large proportion of the staff both medical and non medical come from the EU. If they feel they are no longer welcome in this country and decide they want to go home,then we have got a huge potential problem. The same applies to care home staff.

The charisma bypass s operation was a complete success I see Flush ,but they haven't managed to stem the flow of utter drivel though!
No eu person working here is going to leave ,that we can control who comes in and stop them from sucking on the ample bosom of our welfare program must be a relief but it wont do much because as we speak hundreds of thousands of eu member citizens who have been here 5 years are already becoming UK citizens !
As usual you scaremonger with your anecdotal bullshit ,don't you have a website to develop ?

I had to read your second paragraph three times before I understood what you are trying to say, but don't worry I got there in the end. So here we go again Herd you are making misinformed comments about immigrants costing our economy more than they put in. I have on several occasions put references to studies that prove this isn't the case. You would do well to look them up.

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:22 pm

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:24 am

Hang on a minute is it not unreasonable when you make such a monumental decision, to try and think out what the consequences are? Your predictions may be right they may be wrong, but it's better to make an educated guess than just ride roughshod over every piece of evidence that may suggest leaving the EU may do us more harm than good. Losing £60 bn from our coffers isn't a good start for sure.

We have to be very careful with the way we handle immigration too. When I was in hospital recently a large proportion of the staff both medical and non medical come from the EU. If they feel they are no longer welcome in this country and decide they want to go home,then we have got a huge potential problem. The same applies to care home staff.

The charisma bypass s operation was a complete success I see Flush ,but they haven't managed to stem the flow of utter drivel though!
No eu person working here is going to leave ,that we can control who comes in and stop them from sucking on the ample bosom of our welfare program must be a relief but it wont do much because as we speak hundreds of thousands of eu member citizens who have been here 5 years are already becoming UK citizens !
As usual you scaremonger with your anecdotal bullshit ,don't you have a website to develop ?

I had to read your second paragraph three times before I understood what you are trying to say, but don't worry I got there in the end. So here we go again Herd you are making misinformed comments about immigrants costing our economy more than they put in. I have on several occasions put references to studies that prove this isn't the case. You would do well to look them up.

I didn't say anything about immigrants costing more than they put in so its clear you didn't get it dullard !

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:51 pm

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:22 pm

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:24 am

Hang on a minute is it not unreasonable when you make such a monumental decision, to try and think out what the consequences are? Your predictions may be right they may be wrong, but it's better to make an educated guess than just ride roughshod over every piece of evidence that may suggest leaving the EU may do us more harm than good. Losing £60 bn from our coffers isn't a good start for sure.

We have to be very careful with the way we handle immigration too. When I was in hospital recently a large proportion of the staff both medical and non medical come from the EU. If they feel they are no longer welcome in this country and decide they want to go home,then we have got a huge potential problem. The same applies to care home staff.

The charisma bypass s operation was a complete success I see Flush ,but they haven't managed to stem the flow of utter drivel though!
No eu person working here is going to leave ,that we can control who comes in and stop them from sucking on the ample bosom of our welfare program must be a relief but it wont do much because as we speak hundreds of thousands of eu member citizens who have been here 5 years are already becoming UK citizens !
As usual you scaremonger with your anecdotal bullshit ,don't you have a website to develop ?

I had to read your second paragraph three times before I understood what you are trying to say, but don't worry I got there in the end. So here we go again Herd you are making misinformed comments about immigrants costing our economy more than they put in. I have on several occasions put references to studies that prove this isn't the case. You would do well to look them up.

I didn't say anything about immigrants costing more than they put in so its clear you didn't get it dullard !

If you are suggesting that immigrants take a lot out of our system then I beg to differ a lot of them work and pay tax. The consequences of having any form of social security mean that some people take the piss. They don't have to be immigrants to do that you know!

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 pm

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:51 pm

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:22 pm

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:24 am

Hang on a minute is it not unreasonable when you make such a monumental decision, to try and think out what the consequences are? Your predictions may be right they may be wrong, but it's better to make an educated guess than just ride roughshod over every piece of evidence that may suggest leaving the EU may do us more harm than good. Losing £60 bn from our coffers isn't a good start for sure.

We have to be very careful with the way we handle immigration too. When I was in hospital recently a large proportion of the staff both medical and non medical come from the EU. If they feel they are no longer welcome in this country and decide they want to go home,then we have got a huge potential problem. The same applies to care home staff.

The charisma bypass s operation was a complete success I see Flush ,but they haven't managed to stem the flow of utter drivel though!
No eu person working here is going to leave ,that we can control who comes in and stop them from sucking on the ample bosom of our welfare program must be a relief but it wont do much because as we speak hundreds of thousands of eu member citizens who have been here 5 years are already becoming UK citizens !
As usual you scaremonger with your anecdotal bullshit ,don't you have a website to develop ?

I had to read your second paragraph three times before I understood what you are trying to say, but don't worry I got there in the end. So here we go again Herd you are making misinformed comments about immigrants costing our economy more than they put in. I have on several occasions put references to studies that prove this isn't the case. You would do well to look them up.

I didn't say anything about immigrants costing more than they put in so its clear you didn't get it dullard !

If you are suggesting that immigrants take a lot out of our system then I beg to differ a lot of them work and pay tax. The consequences of having any form of social security mean that some people take the piss. They don't have to be immigrants to do that you know!

I didn't say that nut flush can u not read ,seriously i didn't realise you were mentally challenged ,I apologise and promise not to be so hard on you .

What are you wanting from Brexit then Herd ?

Nutflush has put forward some very good points so I don't think that he can be considered mentally challenged.
I would love to hear the viewpoint from someone as intellectual as yourself though.

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:34 pm

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 pm

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:51 pm

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:22 pm

Herd wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:24 am

The charisma bypass s operation was a complete success I see Flush ,but they haven't managed to stem the flow of utter drivel though!
No eu person working here is going to leave ,that we can control who comes in and stop them from sucking on the ample bosom of our welfare program must be a relief but it wont do much because as we speak hundreds of thousands of eu member citizens who have been here 5 years are already becoming UK citizens !
As usual you scaremonger with your anecdotal bullshit ,don't you have a website to develop ?

I had to read your second paragraph three times before I understood what you are trying to say, but don't worry I got there in the end. So here we go again Herd you are making misinformed comments about immigrants costing our economy more than they put in. I have on several occasions put references to studies that prove this isn't the case. You would do well to look them up.

I didn't say anything about immigrants costing more than they put in so its clear you didn't get it dullard !

If you are suggesting that immigrants take a lot out of our system then I beg to differ a lot of them work and pay tax. The consequences of having any form of social security mean that some people take the piss. They don't have to be immigrants to do that you know!

I didn't say that nut flush can u not read ,seriously i didn't realise you were mentally challenged ,I apologise and promise not to be so hard on you .

Well why don't you explain in plain English what exactly you are trying to say (you did a very bad job in the original post). Because so far on this thread you have made prophecies/conspiracy theories that have proven to be incorrect. Even your suggestion that Brexit won't happen seems to be dead in the water now, despite the Conservatives best attempts to accommodate your stand point. Then you suggest someone else is mentally challenged, you couldn't make it up.

Gunner Rob wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:31 pm

What are you wanting from Brexit then Herd ?

Nutflush has put forward some very good points so I don't think that he can be considered mentally challenged.
I would love to hear the viewpoint from someone as intellectual as yourself though.

To be honest Rob, Herd comes across as very set in his ways. Bit like the father in law that thinks he's always right when he isn't.

nut flush gooner wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:44 am

Gunner Rob wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:31 pm

What are you wanting from Brexit then Herd ?

Nutflush has put forward some very good points so I don't think that he can be considered mentally challenged.
I would love to hear the viewpoint from someone as intellectual as yourself though.

To be honest Rob, Herd comes across as very set in his ways. Bit like the father in law that thinks he's always right when he isn't.

Well who isn't? Even after a thread of this length has anyone changed anyone else's opinion? Probably not.

Gunner Rob wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:31 pm

What are you wanting from Brexit then Herd ?

Nutflush has put forward some very good points so I don't think that he can be considered mentally challenged.
I would love to hear the viewpoint from someone as intellectual as yourself though.

I want an old fashioned house with an old fashioned mouse and an old fashioned millionaire !

Herd wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:46 am

Gunner Rob wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:31 pm

What are you wanting from Brexit then Herd ?

Nutflush has put forward some very good points so I don't think that he can be considered mentally challenged.
I would love to hear the viewpoint from someone as intellectual as yourself though.

I want an old fashioned house with an old fashioned mouse and an old fashioned millionaire !

That's not too much to ask for, is it Herd

flash gunner wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:10 pm

Herd wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:46 am

Gunner Rob wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:31 pm

What are you wanting from Brexit then Herd ?

Nutflush has put forward some very good points so I don't think that he can be considered mentally challenged.
I would love to hear the viewpoint from someone as intellectual as yourself though.

I want an old fashioned house with an old fashioned mouse and an old fashioned millionaire !

That's not too much to ask for, is it Herd

I want it all
I want it all
I want it all
And I want it now!

Herd wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:46 am

Gunner Rob wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:31 pm

What are you wanting from Brexit then Herd ?

Nutflush has put forward some very good points so I don't think that he can be considered mentally challenged.
I would love to hear the viewpoint from someone as intellectual as yourself though.

I want an old fashioned house with an old fashioned mouse and an old fashioned millionaire !

Quite funny how you resort to below the belt jibes, when you can't post anything constructive. Happens a lot on this thread herd lad. Somewhere in your jumbled up message yesterday you are trying to say we should have control over immigrants who take the piss on the benefits front (and yes I agree we should), but what about the people who where born here. Lets face it there are probably exponentially more home grown benefit cheats?

Our problems with regards to system cheats is down to the way we structure our social security, no other EU country has this problem. If we weren't so generous we wouldn't even have this issue.

Totally agree about the home grown benefit cheats Nutty, but isn't that the point being made, we have more than enough of our own without encouraging any more from overseas. Again you're reading exactly what you want to read and interpreting it in a singular way which you then use to support your own argument without considering the merits of the reverse argument.

No-one on this thread has said there should be no immigration but rather it should be strictly controlled to limit numbers but also to limit the skills base of those being attracted to work, for example as you pointed out Doctors and Nurses are a requirement. As an aside on this i'd love someone to publish the genuine figures for the ratio of doctors, nurses, teachers, police, firemen, paramedics and other essential workers in comparison to the actual numbers needed to support those arriving, i have a horrible feeling with the strain on public services currently being experienced that it is nowhere near enough.

Back on track, one of the problems with so many workers coming from overseas is that it reduces job opportunitess for those home grown lazy fuckers, by filling the jobs with more willing workers from overseas basically you're giving those lazy bastards who don't want to work (not those who cant) an excuse to sit on the dole and collect their checks whilst blaming every man and his dog for the situation they are in and additionally increasing the burden on the state finances.

Personally i'd stop cash payments and pay directly for food, water, heating and essentials. It may seem draconian but the only way to get people out to work, and again i emphasise those who are able but too lazy, is to force them. But it should be a carrot and stick thing, those who do find work, if it is low paid or limited hours should be ensured a certain standard of living, they should get bonus payments for attending retraining courses or doing adult apprenticeships etc.

There is no easy solution to the welfare problems in this country and i don't think there is a one size fits all option but there are genuinely too many people who dont or wont put themselves out there because the system is setup in such a way as it is often financially better not to work.

As long as this system exists it cannot be resolved by unchecked immigration, jobs have to be available to home grown workers first and foremost or you create resentment and division like we are seeing now. Bare in mind as well that a lot of the problem is geographical so the more people attracted to where the jobs are means more people vying for those jobs and more people losing out increasing the welfare burden and negatively effecting the localised economy.

The worst part of this whole issue is the automatic assumption that if you raise any questions about the rate of immigration or its impact you are automatically a racist bigot. Which is kind of ironic when you consider that the EU an organisation many people in this country voted to leave is itself a racist organisation by its very own rules