Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[the playing mantis]

we were a shambles in wengers last decade, egtting progresively worse, but we all concurred i think that a manager that actually hadnt lost the plot and knew tactics, and witha couple of decent additions aseason could get us back fairly easily to top 4 trophy and then beyond as time went on.

we were a shambles under dick despite an on paper good first season, and i think we all hoped despite some worrying signs (the flukey unbeaten run, strange tactics, some players seemingly not giving it there all, and end of season collapse) that he would improve things again in the summer and the next seaosn but failed to and we returned to a downward spiral of shit, so he had to go, yet were making progress in shifting out dross and being more sensible in respect of contracts and transfers, so again i think we mostly concurred to get a tough take no shit manager who understands tactics could get grip and get us pointing in the right direction again with a few simple tweaks.

however we appointed an absolute amateur and the inevitiable happened. now we are in an even worse state than under either dick or AW and have no semblance of progress, tactics, improvement and just seem to get worse. All the issues seen under dick have been exasperated and made worse, and to cap it all off we are yet again seeing the squad bloated by dross that we will never shift other than with big payoffs. xhaka new deal, willian, soares, runarsson, mari, odegaard, white etc.

arteta has actively made us worse and along with edu and the incompetent vinai lumbed us with shit for years to come which will impact on any future manager. at least dick was slowly shedding some of the AW millstones, but now we are truly fucked.

had a proper manager been given the backing in support and funds Arteta has we would (you would think) be improving, but inexplicable we have spent 150m odd and are no better. such a waste. I think a proper manager could get loads more out of ths group than artrta, but would need a clean slate, bombing out big earners again to start again (a issue we didnt think we would see after ozil, but no lessons learned)

yes the kroenkes are at fault for letting this happen on their shift and being absentee owners, but no one can say they havent backed the manager.

i see no way out of this until they get lucky and actually appoint a proper manager, but by then we will be so far behind and damaged by this current management team we will take years to come back without a sugar daddy investment.

its depressing.

[Nos89]

The majority of the starting eleven hasn't changed for the last 3 seasons. Leno, holding, bellerin, xhaka, Tierney, Aubameyang, Pepe and Lacazette. So what exactly has Arteta changed? Style of play to concede less. That's it.
Where are the players we spent millions of pounds on?

[DB10GOONER]

The majority of the starting eleven hasn't changed for the last 3 seasons. Leno, holding, bellerin, xhaka, Tierney, Aubameyang, Pepe and Lacazette. So what exactly has Arteta changed? Style of play to concede less. That's it.
Where are the players we spent millions of pounds on?

And a key thing here is that of those listed the following should not be at a huge club like Arsenal: Clive, Linda, Butter Wrists (OK maybe as back up keeper), Peepee, Holding.

Even Laca is borderline tbh as he probably is good enough to play at a big club... but then you look at our teams from 98 to 2006 and ask would he have got into them? Probably not.

Boomerang was top quality but whatever the combo of malaria and a huge payrise has done to him he is now utter gash.

[DB10GOONER]

Even during the darkest days of the Wenger reign I could never bring myself to want us to lose a game. Never. Not once. But now I'm so close to embracing a scorched earth policy and hoping we just keep losing until this Martinez-Lite fraud is sacked that it is scary. I'm not quite there but I think if I knew 100% that say 4 or 5 more losses in a row would see him sacked.... well, I'd probably be OK with that....

[marka123]

Even during the darkest days of the Wenger reign I could never bring myself to want us to lose a game. Never. Not once. But now I'm so close to embracing a scorched earth policy and hoping we just keep losing until this Martinez-Lite fraud is sacked that it is scary. I'm not quite there but I think if I knew 100% that say 4 or 5 more losses in a row would see him sacked.... well, I'd probably be OK with that....

^^^ this 100% - dreadful, dreadful manager. Tbh, I'm now at the stage where I would accept even worse if we were able to rid ourselves of the complete cnuts who own our club. Incredibly, they have actually spent very decent money for once but the complete incompetence displayed in allowing the Edu/Kia/Arteta shitshow makes us look a complete joke of a club run and owned by amateurs (in footballing terms). As others have mentioned, it will take years to undo some of this damage.

[mcdowell42]

According to @MiguelDelaney, sources within #Arsenal insist Mikel Arteta is going nowhere for the moment. They even talk about how he calls the shots with a lot of the hierarchy, & strong-armed the board into some transfers. https://t.co/KLj1SL9UVV


Arteta has almost total authority. That’s with the squad, and with the staff. Some have even taken to calling him “mini Arsene”, such is the extent of his control. #Arsenal https://t.co/QWAXKAvhAl

[g88ner]

Arteta has almost total authority. That’s with the squad, and with the staff. Some have even taken to calling him “mini Arsene”, such is the extent of his control. #Arsenal https://t.co/QWAXKAvhAl

They maybe have misheard. “Mini Adolf” perhaps?

[SteveO 35]

Even during the darkest days of the Wenger reign I could never bring myself to want us to lose a game. Never. Not once. But now I'm so close to embracing a scorched earth policy and hoping we just keep losing until this Martinez-Lite fraud is sacked that it is scary. I'm not quite there but I think if I knew 100% that say 4 or 5 more losses in a row would see him sacked.... well, I'd probably be OK with that....

I know exactly how you feel buddy. I've called out a few people on here before that have almost been willing us to lose games (both under Wenger and Emery) , claiming that some sort of greater good was their reasoning. Some even said "I don't want us winning this cup or that cup" because it would keep someone in a job etc. Whilst I could still never sit down and watch the Arsenal and cheer for the opposition, for the first time ever supporting the club I'm now thinking of the 'greater good' argument. In fact, I'll be bolder and say that if it took us getting knocked out tonight, walloped by City and then losing to Norwich to finish off Arteta, I think I would take it.

So why different compared to the last two? Firstly, Wenger was holding us back.......holding us back from the club we could be. Why aim for champions when 4th will do. With Emery I saw a guy who after 22 years of Wenger was manfully wrestling with years of neglect, learning the language, being a decent guy, moving on 15 players and desperately needed more time and backing from the board

What do I see with this guy? A manager who is bad enough to relegate us - maybe not this season, but as the rest of the clubs catch up will have us closer and closer to the trap door. If he doesn't go, I genuinely fear the worst. People were frustrated by Dick's tinkering and blowing the top four and getting a rodgering in the EL final - I get all of that. People were frustrated with Wenger for 10 years of a 'second best will do' culture at a time when Pep, Klopp, Podgie etc were leaving him behind. But this fella is on a scale we've never seen before - its not someone holding us back, its someone totally destroying anything and everything we once were

[mcdowell42]

Observers of Arsenal’s training have said that a lot of their sessions are good but ‘like Subbuteo’, in that they’re ‘far too clean’. The argument is that they’re not ‘dirty’ enough & aren’t actually readying the team for the muck & bullets of a game. [@MiguelDelaney] #afc

[augie]

According to @MiguelDelaney, sources within #Arsenal insist Mikel Arteta is going nowhere for the moment. They even talk about how he calls the shots with a lot of the hierarchy, & strong-armed the board into some transfers. https://t.co/KLj1SL9UVV


Arteta has almost total authority. That’s with the squad, and with the staff. Some have even taken to calling him “mini Arsene”, such is the extent of his control. #Arsenal https://t.co/QWAXKAvhAl

Mini arsene, massive c.unt

[augie]

Some absolute pearls from his press conference yesterday -

"We are now trying everything that we discussed and everything that we are capable of doing."

Except winning games against a club that hasnt been in the top division for over 60 years

“There are things that we are not capable of doing"

Like scoring goals for example

“We had a much better context this summer to work on what we wanted to do"

Yet we cant win a game, cant score a goal, are still conceding from set pieces, and still play the same slow boring football

[SteveO 35]

Observers of Arsenal’s training have said that a lot of their sessions are good but ‘like Subbuteo’, in that they’re ‘far too clean’. The argument is that they’re not ‘dirty’ enough & aren’t actually readying the team for the muck & bullets of a game. [@MiguelDelaney] #afc

This would certainly make sense - its like the man with no experience applying for the job on the back of his achievements on Football Manager. Everything looks great on the screen and on the white board - very theoretical, very analysis based etc......but when a 6 foot 3 inch lump is pressing you into mistakes, just isn't useful at all. The physical element of both displays so far this season has been woeful - Toney and Lukaku exposed it ruthlessly, but Brentford's second goal and aspects of Chelsea's play also exposed it.

Going forward its obvious these players are being coached to within an inch of their lives. Everything is slowed down to be super precise - almost like what they've been told by El Brent is a running dialogue in their heads. Gone is any sort of individual expression or encouragement to play off the cuff - all completely orchestrated and predictable. Training must be like double maths - boring as fuck

[DB10GOONER]

Observers of Arsenal’s training have said that a lot of their sessions are good but ‘like Subbuteo’, in that they’re ‘far too clean’. The argument is that they’re not ‘dirty’ enough & aren’t actually readying the team for the muck & bullets of a game. [@MiguelDelaney] #afc

This would certainly make sense - its like the man with no experience applying for the job on the back of his achievements on Football Manager. Everything looks great on the screen and on the white board - very theoretical, very analysis based etc......but when a 6 foot 3 inch lump is pressing you into mistakes, just isn't useful at all. The physical element of both displays so far this season has been woeful - Toney and Lukaku exposed it ruthlessly, but Brentford's second goal and aspects of Chelsea's play also exposed it.

Going forward its obvious these players are being coached to within an inch of their lives. Everything is slowed down to be super precise - almost like what they've been told by El Brent is a running dialogue in their heads. Gone is any sort of individual expression or encouragement to play off the cuff - all completely orchestrated and predictable. Training must be like double maths - boring as fuck

I think you've nailed it there mate. Martinez-Lite has all the theory and I think that's hoodwinked wiggy and his gimp offspring because they come from the dreadfully dull world of grid iron stats and set plays and do not understand the free flowing expression that football is based around. His presentation with charts and stats probably blew them away.

But as anyone with a brain that has played the game at any level knows over drilling players only stifles them and makes them indecisive. Games are won by creativity and adventure. Sure, they can be saved by defensive discipline, but not won solely on that.

Even players like Tierney who last season was ripping into right backs for a laugh has looked more subdued in possession this season, now often checking back and passing inside rather than taking the oppo player on. It's like Martinez-Lite is trying to coach the individuality out of him.

[augie]

Even if we forget about the results for a minute, how in gods green earth are the board letting this fool spend more money when players he signed like willian, soares and mari have been such unmitigated disasters ??? If you wanted proof about lego head not being under pressure then you have it right there

[gooner265]

Wasn't sure where to out this , nice interview with Freddie

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/freddie ... ne-wenger/