As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
BFG4 wrote:The funny thing about the Wenger situation is that, apart from his clear incompetence, and repetitive mistakes, its his contempt for the fans, that gets to me the most. Can you imagine at any other club, the manager blaming the fans for his own sides shortcomings, and a large section of fans still backing him. No other manager would get away with defending extortionate ticket prices, especially when It has prevented many lifelong fans from attending games anymore. This shows a clear lack of empathy on Wenger's part. I know the AKB'S back him based on sentiment, for what he has done for the club years ago, but do any of them listen to the many disrespectful, and arrogant things he comes out with. I don't think its a stretch to say, Wenger sees the fans as an inconvenience. I'm sure he would be quite happy for the stadium to be full of tourists, who will smile and take pictures, when we are being humiliated.
I agree mate. Wenger has seems to have blamed everything and everyone except himself over the years. Rich men, poor men, groundsmen, tannoy announcers, fans, young inexperienced players (that he chose), unfit players (that he chose), the sun (for being too bright for Sol Campbell's eyes) .... and once it was even dark forces ,
He also seems to have the view that fans should be unquestionably loyal at all times ... just like a dog. In fairness most of us might have been happy to be that type of fan in the past ... but we have grown tired of being exploited and taken for granted by outsiders like Wenger, Gazidis and Kroenke. As comtempible as Peter Hill-Wood is, at least he had some long standing connection with the club.
What Wenger doesnt seem to realise is even the most loyal and docile dog will react if you keep sticking a pin in its testicles (not that I have tried this ). If you keep winding it up, then you cannot complain when it turns on you! Wenger is the biggest wind-up in football and it's time he was savaged by those he has mistreated.
You little liar you.
But in all seriousness, a very good post and very true.
Arsène Wenger stands accused of selling Arsenal fans a lie. Supporters are losing it with a once-revered manager and his constant commands: keep the faith, keep flocking to the magnificent new stadium, keep paying eye-watering ticket prices, keep biting your lip as Samir Nasri, Cesc Fàbregas and Robin van Persie are auctioned off and keep being linked with big names that rarely arrive. So keep being naive, keep getting taken for a ride.
No wonder many Arsenal fans spilled out of the Emirates on Sunday, spitting with anger, many before the final whistle of the 4-3 loss to Liverpool. For all the talk of a mutinous atmosphere last season, the peace has largely held. Not now. Wenger is under scrutiny like never before. Fans’ patience is cracking.
Arsenal need to remember they are a big club and begin behaving like one
Widespread dissent revolves around more than frustration at the wretched pre-season planning that had a couple of kids at centre back (Rob Holding and Calum Chambers) against Liverpool’s firefly forwards, that had his main summer signing starting on the bench (Granit Xhaka), that had negotiations dragging on to land much-needed cover (Shkodran Mustafi) for injuries at centre back, one sudden (Gabriel), one known (Per Mertesacker).
Exasperation was over more than the inconsistent thinking that had the one high-class centre back, Laurent Koscielny, sitting in the stands for the Liverpool game after his Euro 2016 exertions, while there was a starting role for Aaron Ramsey, whose summer work ended four days earlier, and was far more demanding, and he succumbed to injury.
This was more than the annoyance that Wenger didn’t push earlier for N’Golo Kanté, who would have moved to Arsenal but ended up at Chelsea. This was more than the typical small-time thinking that caused Kante’s club-mate, Jamie Vardy, to shun them, preferring the security of a four-year deal at Leicester City to the three years offered by Arsenal. These are simply the miserable micro-details of another troubling season’s launch.
This runs far deeper. The wrath flowing unchecked towards Wenger is tinged with a sadness building in recent seasons. When he eventually leaves, Wenger will be remembered as a club legend, the man behind the Invincibles, a manager who reinvented football for a while. Arsenal, and English football, owe Wenger a monumental debt of gratitude. Yet at present he resembles some flawed Shakespearean hero who loses his way, whose character traits change for the worse. Enlightenment and determination become blinkeredness and stubbornness as he loses his wisdom, his subjects and his kingdom.
Arsenal have become an institution antithetical to the principles that defined Wenger when he marched into the Marble Halls 20 years ago. He was all about challenging the status quo; now he seems content with maintaining it. He was cutting edge; now he’s blunted. He was ambitious; now he highlights the hunger of others.
On his watch, Arsenal have become a commercial organisation first, a football operation second. Arsenal are not as focused on confronting the elite any more; runner-up will do in the lucrative era of Champions League qualification. Wenger keeps pleasing the shareholders who look at the bottom line when he needs to satisfy passionate supporters focused on the finishing line.
Under Wenger Arsenal have become a commercial organisation first and a football operation second — they must begin their search for a new manager BPI/Rex/Shutterstock
More than generating profits for shareholders, the game should be about excitement, about goalscorers better than Olivier Giroud. It should be about trophies and open-top bus rides, about realising fans’ dreams. For somebody who adores beautiful football, Wenger has become slow and reluctant to invest in it. Mesut Özil and Alexis Sánchez are wonderful additions, but more players with their elegant talents are required.
Wenger has been overtaken by more innovative coaches such as Pep Guardiola, Antonio Conte and Jürgen Klopp. He has been shown up not by those who have spent heavily but by those who haven’t, by Leicester City, the champions. Wenger is caught in a perfect storm, assailed from all sides, even his own now.
Wenger’s ardour for Arsenal is undoubted. He rebuilt the team, the club and built the stadium. But it’s not Arsène Football Club, as the doubters rightly point out. It’s Arsenal Football Club, the club of Herbert Chapman, Frank McLintock, Liam Brady, Tony Adams, Dennis Bergkamp and Thierry Henry as well as Arsène Wenger. It is the club of millions of followers, past and present. Wenger doesn’t own the place. He’s just part of it, a hugely influential part.
As with most Shakespearean tragedies, some of the culpability for Wenger’s demise lies with the weakness and passivity of those close by. Arsenal’s board have failed Wenger by not calling him to account. Stan Kroenke is particularly to blame. Arsenal’s majority shareholder seems content to let the money roll in through Richard Scudamore’s alchemy in the broadcasting rights market, fans’ loyalty and sponsors’ desire to be associated with such a famous, historic name.
Arsenal have acquired a reputation for trying to do things on the cheap. The Luis Suárez affair, offering Liverpool £40 million plus one pound, was pathetic. When Sergio Agüero was available at Atletico Madrid his name was raised but never pursued. Arsenal need to remember they are a big club and begin behaving like one. Planning for Wenger’s successor would be a start.
More to Dyche than what meets the eye
As a child, Sean Dyche was held up by bandits in Latin America, when his father was working out there, but this is hardly the reason for his scepticism about foreigners.
Burnley’s manager makes a legitimate point about the media’s obsession with the mystique of overseas coaches given that he and Eddie Howe got into the Premier League with modestly funded squads, playing decent football.
His gravelly tones and no-nonsense haircut give Dyche the image of head of security at Turf Moor, but appearances can be deceptive and public utterances misconstrued.
Dyche regularly liaises with sports scientists, thinks deeply about the game and dedicates himself as much to his job as Antonio “two hours’ sleep a night” Conte.
English coaches undeniably have plenty to learn from such managerial missionaries as Conte, Pep Guardiola and Jürgen Klopp but let us not downplay the contribution of home-grown coaches, while also noting that Dyche may simply be trying to create a siege mentality.
That Leicester City and England are interested in Michael Keane, the Burnley defender, reflects well on the coaching qualities of Dyche. Like Howe, who could turn playmaker Lewis Cook into England material, Dyche has earned the right to rub shoulders with Conte and company.
● Unbelievably, Jürgen Klopp was criticised in certain quarters for his manic response to Sadio Mané’s fourth goal during Liverpool’s 4-3 victory against Arsenal on Sunday. He shed all restraint, lost his classes, but why not? In the monied modern era, when atmospheres risk becoming anodyne, such outpourings of joy are great to behold. If you can’t react passionately to a goal of such quality and significance, when can you celebrate? Klopp 1 Killjoys 0.
● Joe Hart has two options: fight or flight. He can surrender and accept the widespread understanding that Pep Guardiola wants him out of Manchester City or he can work even harder in training, sharpen up his footwork, not moan (hardly his style anyway) and then wait for the moment when his replacement, whether Claudio Bravo, Juliet Bravo or whoever, makes a mistake. As will surely happen in the pressure dome of the Premier League. Hart won’t get a better club than City and he won’t get the same wages. He should show Guardiola his determination to fight for his place.
The only problems with that Winter article is, after a decent start, he veers off into a "our plucky British managers are as good as any dirty foreigners" UKIP-type monologue, and he is too naive to see through Klopp's fake eccentricities, needy attention-seeking, and general arse-kissing of the Liverpool fans.
DB10GOONER wrote:The only problems with that Winter article is, after a decent start, he veers off into a "our plucky British managers are as good as any dirty foreigners" UKIP-type monologue, and he is too naive to see through Klopp's fake eccentricities, needy attention-seeking, and general arse-kissing of the Liverpool fans.
True but the first few paragraphs sum things up pretty well.
BFG4 wrote:The funny thing about the Wenger situation is that, apart from his clear incompetence, and repetitive mistakes, its his contempt for the fans, that gets to me the most. Can you imagine at any other club, the manager blaming the fans for his own sides shortcomings, and a large section of fans still backing him. No other manager would get away with defending extortionate ticket prices, especially when It has prevented many lifelong fans from attending games anymore. This shows a clear lack of empathy on Wenger's part. I know the AKB'S back him based on sentiment, for what he has done for the club years ago, but do any of them listen to the many disrespectful, and arrogant things he comes out with. I don't think its a stretch to say, Wenger sees the fans as an inconvenience. I'm sure he would be quite happy for the stadium to be full of tourists, who will smile and take pictures, when we are being humiliated.
They do listen and they fully agree with him. Where ever you go you'll see comments like " plastic fans", "go support Chelsea", "glory hunters" etc from the AKB's. They always take the moral high ground with their master and feel entitled to call other fans names if they don't agree with them or with their master. Disgusting lot all of them!
I would go as far as comparing them to the cult of North Korean leader.
BFG4 wrote:The funny thing about the Wenger situation is that, apart from his clear incompetence, and repetitive mistakes, its his contempt for the fans, that gets to me the most. Can you imagine at any other club, the manager blaming the fans for his own sides shortcomings, and a large section of fans still backing him. No other manager would get away with defending extortionate ticket prices, especially when It has prevented many lifelong fans from attending games anymore. This shows a clear lack of empathy on Wenger's part. I know the AKB'S back him based on sentiment, for what he has done for the club years ago, but do any of them listen to the many disrespectful, and arrogant things he comes out with. I don't think its a stretch to say, Wenger sees the fans as an inconvenience. I'm sure he would be quite happy for the stadium to be full of tourists, who will smile and take pictures, when we are being humiliated.
They do listen and they fully agree with him. Where ever you go you'll see comments like " plastic fans", "go support Chelsea", "glory hunters" etc from the AKB's. They always take the moral high ground with their master and feel entitled to call other fans names if they don't agree with them or with their master. Disgusting lot all of them!
I would go as far as comparing them to the cult of North Korean leader.
I think he's just genuinely astounded that many fans want more than the 'success' he thinks he provides. He's delusional enough to think he's the saviour of the club and that he's brought great success to it, and that he should be constantly respected and truted as a result.
DB10GOONER wrote:The only problems with that Winter article is, after a decent start, he veers off into a "our plucky British managers are as good as any dirty foreigners" UKIP-type monologue, and he is too naive to see through Klopp's fake eccentricities, needy attention-seeking, and general arse-kissing of the Liverpool fans.
True but the first few paragraphs sum things up pretty well.
They certainly do. And it makes depressing reading, doesn't it? Yet so many of our supposed fans cannot see it...
That "statement" was discredited the minute it came out. Obviously put together by his PR people to try and mitigate the expected fans' backlash. As for "his analysis"?? Do me a favour. There is absolutely nothing in that statement that even a half-assed PR guy could not have pulled together from a dozen Arsenal forums at the time. That statement served only to try and deflect blame from RVJC and people still buy into it? FFS.
One more time; WHY DID HE NOT ISSUE THAT STATEMENT WHEN INJURED? WHY NOT QUESTION THE CLUB'S AMBITION WHEN INJURED?
Derek Acorah wrote:How is this bloke still your manager?!
Because Arsenal FC doesn't exist anymore. It is now and has been for 10 years a business operation. Wenger maintains a consistent and profitable team, keeping the share holders happy. Customer satisfaction has declined but when has that ever got a senior business partner the sack, whilst revenue consistently increases year on year?
It's that simple really.
Another reason is that no top manager who wants to win titles both domestically or in Europe will ever come to Arsenal whilst this board is in situ. So, all these supporters claiming we will do better without Wenger as we'll get a top manager who will buy the players and coach them into winners, need to think again. If we can't attract Vardy from Leicester, do we really think we can attract one of the world greats managers? Not a chance in hell with the constraints they will be working under.
There you go again......You always do this, support Wenger in a backhanded way. I wish you would have the balls to come out and say that you support him unconditionally instead of constantly making excuses for him. Here once again is the intimation that it is not the manager who is the problem, but the board who has constraints on him. In reality it is the other way around... Wenger is Kroenke's boy, he does his masters bidding, and the board submit to Wenger, not the other way around.
We cannot attract players because I believe players have finally woken up to the fact that Wenger puts profit before trophy's and they will NEVER win anything at Arsenal. It's not attracting a new manager (hell we cannot even get rid of the one we have) that is the problem, the problem is no decent player wants to play for WENGER. And Wenger has helped shape and create the board that HE wants. Once Wenger goes EVERYTHING will change. I concede that Kroenke is a total prat as well, but WENGER has created the culture that is at Arsenal today.
By stating "Wenger is Kroenke's boy" you've just agreed with my argument.
Once Wenger goes, nothing will change whilst we have this board in place.
What don't you get?? The board is shit scared of Wenger because of his sycophantic relationship with Kroenke. Wenger has used his Svengali like influence on the board like he has the fans. Wenger HAS money, he WILL NOT spend it because he has a better way and the board are too scared to stand up to him. Any half decent manager who replaces him WILL spend the money on offer and the board will be behind his programme & ambition, not a slave to it like they are with Wenger's. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that most of them despise him.
Wenger is a despot, he has shown his true colours time & time again. If ANYBODY opposes him he makes sure they go. If there were ever to be a huge confrontational bust up that whole board will go before he does.
Fair play to RVP for standing up to Wenger and questioning his methods and direction. He, better than any of us could see how Wenger was going nowhere fast. He went off to play for Fergie and win trophies fs, and for more money. Win fcukin win. He only highlighted what a lot of us were saying.
People seem to forget Fergie called Wenger directly and Wenger was so flattered he done the deal there and then, the complete egotistical bastard.
As for why RVP didnt do it sooner? There are people still, even today believing Wengers lies. I'd suggest he was fed a line of bullshit by Wenger and ended up so frustrated that he had to call him out. Everyone has seen through Wenger at a different pace. There are fans still singing his name, some slowly turning against him, some totally against and have been for years. RVP is not much different. He had eventually seen through him, had enough and wanted assurances.
The fact that RVP didnt seek assurances from Wenger when some feel he should have, he didnt so therefore he is a c unt is totally ridiculous. Who is to say when the penny finallty dropped for RVP that Wenger is useless? I hear this kind of shit at games from the idiots who once criticised other fans for singing "she said no", who now sing it themselves.
NickF wrote:A few stories going around today that Usmanov is thinking about jumping ship to Everton.
Thought he was supposed to be Arsenal through and through?
Could just be paper talk though....
The club is fucked no matter what so let it be.
The inly way to change the board situation is fan power but that will never happen. I much as they annoy me I'm also quite jealous of the Liverpool support and how they hounded out their owners a few years back
DB10GOONER wrote:The only problems with that Winter article is, after a decent start, he veers off into a "our plucky British managers are as good as any dirty foreigners" UKIP-type monologue, and he is too naive to see through Klopp's fake eccentricities, needy attention-seeking, and general arse-kissing of the Liverpool fans.
That refusal to take a Sun journalists question was just toe curling. The guy is so "look at me, look at me" Do you think is say in 2 years time he went to another English club he will still shun Sun journalists?? No chance.
Of course being Liverpool manager comes with Hillsborough and all the rest of their endless gripes & real & imagined afflictions.
,
). If you keep winding it up, then you cannot complain when it turns on you! Wenger is the biggest wind-up in football and it's time he was savaged by those he has mistreated.
