THE WENGER THREAD

[LaughingGooner]

Probably be seen before

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/pre ... -wenger%2F

Vieira won't thank Petit for speaking out of class like that...

Would love to see Vieria and Henry at the club just to put some pride back into the team at least

If Wenger was truly motivated by success and achieving the best for The Arsenal, rather than by his own ego, we would have a coaching staff that included Vieira, Adams, Bergkamp, and Henry. What they could teach younger players about work ethic and technique alone would be worth the wages!

He offered Henry a teaching contract but the Sky contract was more important to him than the club he claims he loves........

[DB10GOONER]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

Denilson
Eboue
Almunia
Squillaci
Bendtner

Just some of the guys given outrageous contracts during our period of financial restraint.

And you talk of perspective? Ok.

Fergie:
Ralph Milne
Massimo Taibi
Kléberson
Gabriel Obertan
Eric Djemba-Djemba
Anderson
Mark Bosnich
Juan Sebastian Veron

Many bought with inflated fees, big contacts, many hung around for years, many sold at a great loss.

Wenger has his failings but to list his poor signings is totally irrelevant. I could also list Jose's poor signings.

In fairness though most of Fergie's failed signings (and there were loads) were off loaded alot quicker than Arsene's and even less of them were given contract extensions with payrises for years after they had demonstrated they were not good enough.

[Skooner]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

I'd argue he was a great manager rather than is.

I genuinely think we'll only know about alleged constraints once he has gone. He definitely could have used the resources he did have better in the first few years in the new stadium. Even now he seems a reluctant spender and if that continues whenever a new manager comes in then I think some peoples view will change as to how much the board is holding the club back.

I don't particularly abuse Wenger but I am completely bored of him making the same mistakes over and over again. Signing wise this summer, Xhaka I think is a good one, the jury is out on Perez but Mustafi doesn't solve the underlying defensive issue which is a system/tactics/training/mentality one. Yes we needed to sign a centre back and the better the player then the fewer mistakes they should make but it won't stop us collapsing as usual.

I hope we win the league and make good in roads in the CL, but I certainly don't expect it, as nothing has massively strengthened us over the summer and biggest teams look stronger and have better tacticians in charge.

Lastly, I think your point about Fergie leaving United in a mess is laughable. As much as I hated him, he won the league in his last season, he was the epitome of success. The fact the club didn't properly replace him is not his fault, he had the exact attitude you need as a manager which is the current season is the most important season. The board/owners are responsible for the longer term future. Wenger should be no where near half the things he gets involved with at Arsenal as it distracts him from the job he is employed to do. I wish our manager would create such a "mess" at Arsenal.

[DB10GOONER]

Probably be seen before

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/pre ... -wenger%2F

Vieira won't thank Petit for speaking out of class like that...

Would love to see Vieria and Henry at the club just to put some pride back into the team at least

If Wenger was truly motivated by success and achieving the best for The Arsenal, rather than by his own ego, we would have a coaching staff that included Vieira, Adams, Bergkamp, and Henry. What they could teach younger players about work ethic and technique alone would be worth the wages!

He offered Henry a teaching contract but the Sky contract was more important to him than the club he claims he loves........

And there's the problem for me. Wenger's "my way or no way" inflexible non-pragmatic attitude. My understanding was that Wenger told Henry he had to give up the Sky work. Why? Henry would have been coaching really only weekdays, and then could do the Sky work weekends/nights. A pragmatic manager would have looked at that situation and said fuck it the benefits outweigh any possible negatives, put a non-disclosure clause in Henry's contract, and taken Henry on either way.

[DB10GOONER]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

I'd argue he was a great manager rather than is.

I genuinely think we'll only know about alleged constraints once he has gone. He definitely could have used the resources he did have better in the first few years in the new stadium. Even now he seems a reluctant spender and if that continues whenever a new manager comes in then I think some peoples view will change as to how much the board is holding the club back.

I don't particularly abuse Wenger but I am completely bored of him making the same mistakes over and over again. Signing wise this summer, Xhaka I think is a good one, the jury is out on Perez but Mustafi doesn't solve the underlying defensive issue which is a system/tactics/training/mentality one. Yes we needed to sign a centre back and the better the player then the fewer mistakes they should make but it won't stop us collapsing as usual.

I hope we win the league and make good in roads in the CL, but I certainly don't expect it, as nothing has massively strengthened us over the summer and biggest teams look stronger and have better tacticians in charge.

Lastly, I think your point about Fergie leaving United in a mess is laughable. As much as I hated him, he won the league in his last season, he was the epitome of success. The fact the club didn't properly replace him is not his fault, he had the exact attitude you need as a manager which is the current season is the most important season. The board/owners are responsible for the longer term future. Wenger should be no where near half the things he gets involved with at Arsenal as it distracts him from the job he is employed to do. I wish our manager would create such a "mess" at Arsenal.

Have to say that's a brilliant post. Agree with every word.

RE the bit in red, for me, I've often said we need a complete change of regime. We need to replace Wenger, the board and the owner to progress. But I'd also say the ONLY way the board is holding the club back is by not doing their job, by not forcing Wenger to deliver and by not sacking him for failing to deliver.

[BFG4]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

Very few on here would abuse Wenger, if he hadn't mis-treated the fans so badly. This is a guy, that last season alone, blamed fans for his own shortcomings. This is a guy who lashes out at anyone who questions him. You talk about abuse, what about his treatment of Jacqui Oatley, when he was borderline bullying her, for having the nerve to ask routine questions. You also mentioned you have been going to games since the 80's, so you have experienced the huge rise in ticket prices then? When asked about the extortionate prices fans have to pay( prices that have prevented life long fans from supporting their club), only 1 manager out of 20 in the league, defended these prices...Wenger. If you want to respect the man for what he has done in the past, then fine, but don't make out he is some sort of respectful, nice guy, he has proved time and again, to be quite the opposite.

[OneBardGooner]

Well it sounds as if TH14 is doing very well at Belgium - So yet again - it is wenger's intransigence and despotic attitude that has scuppered the chances of our Under 18's actually making it through the wenker youth project system....

Something also tells me that in some ways wenger's leave Sky or else ultimatum - was also a test to see if TH14 would fold and be yet another silent lapdog - like bould.


Who knows if TH14 does do very well with the Belgium (Reserves?) squad he just might be able to head our way when he's done with them


He was a genius and inspirational player but whether he will be a good manager or not is anyone's guess.

[DB10GOONER]

Well it sounds as if TH14 is doing very well at Belgium - So yet again - it is wenger's intransigence and despotic attitude that has scuppered the chances of our Under 18's actually making it through the wenker youth project system....

Something also tells me that in some ways wenger's leave Sky or else ultimatum - was also a test to see if TH14 would fold and be yet another silent lapdog - like bould.


Who knows if TH14 does do very well with the Belgium (Reserves?) squad he just might be able to head our way when he's done with them


He was a genius and inspirational player but whether he will be a good manager or not is anyone's guess.

True - alot of great former players don't make great managers but alot of them do make good coaches. Bergkamp has stated he is not interested in becoming a manager but wants to coach and by all accounts is shaping up to be a top coach.

[LaughingGooner]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

Denilson
Eboue
Almunia
Squillaci
Bendtner

Just some of the guys given outrageous contracts during our period of financial restraint.

And you talk of perspective? Ok.

Fergie:
Ralph Milne
Massimo Taibi
Kléberson
Gabriel Obertan
Eric Djemba-Djemba
Anderson
Mark Bosnich
Juan Sebastian Veron

Many bought with inflated fees, big contacts, many hung around for years, many sold at a great loss.

Wenger has his failings but to list his poor signings is totally irrelevant. I could also list Jose's poor signings.

In fairness though most of Fergie's failed signings (and there were loads) were off loaded alot quicker than Arsene's and even less of them were given contract extensions with payrises for years after they had demonstrated they were not good enough.

Fair enough. But I think Wenger's more serious fault was the refusal to allow wide pay discrepancies within the squad. Paying up to £50k a week for the likes of Denilson and Bendtner was a joke, while our top players were not nearly on the same pay level as the likes of Gerrard, Rooney or Yaya Toure. But still insist Wenger didn't suffer from as many poor signings as the other leading managers.

[LaughingGooner]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

I'd argue he was a great manager rather than is.

I genuinely think we'll only know about alleged constraints once he has gone. He definitely could have used the resources he did have better in the first few years in the new stadium. Even now he seems a reluctant spender and if that continues whenever a new manager comes in then I think some peoples view will change as to how much the board is holding the club back.

I don't particularly abuse Wenger but I am completely bored of him making the same mistakes over and over again. Signing wise this summer, Xhaka I think is a good one, the jury is out on Perez but Mustafi doesn't solve the underlying defensive issue which is a system/tactics/training/mentality one. Yes we needed to sign a centre back and the better the player then the fewer mistakes they should make but it won't stop us collapsing as usual.

I hope we win the league and make good in roads in the CL, but I certainly don't expect it, as nothing has massively strengthened us over the summer and biggest teams look stronger and have better tacticians in charge.

Lastly, I think your point about Fergie leaving United in a mess is laughable. As much as I hated him, he won the league in his last season, he was the epitome of success. The fact the club didn't properly replace him is not his fault, he had the exact attitude you need as a manager which is the current season is the most important season. The board/owners are responsible for the longer term future. Wenger should be no where near half the things he gets involved with at Arsenal as it distracts him from the job he is employed to do. I wish our manager would create such a "mess" at Arsenal.

With respect, I can't see how anyone can make judgements on Perez or Mustafa when they haven't played a single game.
Not the big names granted but surely give them a chance before judging the effect they have on the team. Sadly I have resigned myself to Wenger never spending really big on top, top players, though getting Ozil was a great signing of an established world class player.

We certainly disagree on Fergie. He's got away with murder due to his pals in the media.
The team he managed were clearly coming to the end of their dominance in his final year - the likes of Giggs, RVP, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra had seen better days. He made no attempt at starting to build a new team.
Fergie clearly was a great manager but he left them in a mess. Moyes had no chance.
They have had to spend hundreds of millions of pounds to get them back challenging.

[DB10GOONER]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

Denilson
Eboue
Almunia
Squillaci
Bendtner

Just some of the guys given outrageous contracts during our period of financial restraint.

And you talk of perspective? Ok.

Fergie:
Ralph Milne
Massimo Taibi
Kléberson
Gabriel Obertan
Eric Djemba-Djemba
Anderson
Mark Bosnich
Juan Sebastian Veron

Many bought with inflated fees, big contacts, many hung around for years, many sold at a great loss.

Wenger has his failings but to list his poor signings is totally irrelevant. I could also list Jose's poor signings.

In fairness though most of Fergie's failed signings (and there were loads) were off loaded alot quicker than Arsene's and even less of them were given contract extensions with payrises for years after they had demonstrated they were not good enough.

Fair enough. But I think Wenger's more serious fault was the refusal to allow wide pay discrepancies within the squad. Paying up to £50k a week for the likes of Denilson and Bendtner was a joke, while our top players were not nearly on the same pay level as the likes of Gerrard, Rooney or Yaya Toure. But still insist Wenger didn't suffer from as many poor signings as the other leading managers.

Have to agree the pay structure has been a joke at Arsenal for decades. We had a stict pay cap in place under GG that surely prevented us from signing some top players. And then the egalitarian pay structure under Wenger saw the rubbish get paid as much as the top players.

I would however argue that Wenger's list of duds is as long as any manager's. But for me that's not the problem (you have to try players out after all) the problem is he persisted with them for years too long and gave them undeserved pay rises because his ego told him he could not be wrong. I genuinely believe that.

I don't hate Wenger the way many on here do, but I do want him gone. I just wish he had gone in 2007 or 2008 and he'd have remained a legend in nearly everyone's eyes. Or even if he had gone with some dignity after the 2014 FA cup final, some of his detractors probably would have gotten a bit sentimental and wished him well... maybe...

I think it is sad that his legacy has been so badly tarnished over the last 10 years. It's a real shame.

[LaughingGooner]

Well it sounds as if TH14 is doing very well at Belgium - So yet again - it is wenger's intransigence and despotic attitude that has scuppered the chances of our Under 18's actually making it through the wenker youth project system....

Something also tells me that in some ways wenger's leave Sky or else ultimatum - was also a test to see if TH14 would fold and be yet another silent lapdog - like bould.


Who knows if TH14 does do very well with the Belgium (Reserves?) squad he just might be able to head our way when he's done with them


He was a genius and inspirational player but whether he will be a good manager or not is anyone's guess.

I can't see how Wenger can be slaughtered by asking Henry to end his contract on Sky. He would be commenting weekly on the performance of Arsenal players and the situation would have been untenable. You can imagine how the press would have provoked a 'crisis' each week.
Henry's been very shrewd. Belgium do well and he will get the plaudits, if they do badly then it would be down to Martinez.
Henry may well become a great manager in time, but i hope he's a better manager than a pundit.

[LaughingGooner]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

Very few on here would abuse Wenger, if he hadn't mis-treated the fans so badly. This is a guy, that last season alone, blamed fans for his own shortcomings. This is a guy who lashes out at anyone who questions him. You talk about abuse, what about his treatment of Jacqui Oatley, when he was borderline bullying her, for having the nerve to ask routine questions. You also mentioned you have been going to games since the 80's, so you have experienced the huge rise in ticket prices then? When asked about the extortionate prices fans have to pay( prices that have prevented life long fans from supporting their club), only 1 manager out of 20 in the league, defended these prices...Wenger. If you want to respect the man for what he has done in the past, then fine, but don't make out he is some sort of respectful, nice guy, he has proved time and again, to be quite the opposite.

I can't argue that Wenger has failings in his dealings with the media. He can be embarrassing at times.
But Fergie and Jose have a longer history of bullying and intimidating journalists. It's all part of a game of trying to manage the media in my view.
And again I concede that Wenger has never concerned himself with rising prices and the welfare of the fans. It's a scandal that no one in the game have tackled the issue. But the managers and players earn a fortune, so they are hardly going to bite the hand that feeds them. What manager has stood up for this issue????

[Skooner]

You actually make some pretty good points.

Let me give you my point of view.

I used to come here a lot in the past, and though I've been critical of Wenger (this stubborness, lack of tactical flexibility, being too loyal to certain players), I just got pissed off at the personal abuse aimed towards him. It seemed everyone here competed with each other to pour as much abuse on him as possible. Some of it was racist and for me, went beyond the line of acceptance. These posters may have been sanctioned by the mods, but I didn't see much evidence of it.

I did attempt to reason my case, but then I just got slaughtered and mocked by many here. If people felt good about themselves in posting abuse of me, then each to their own. I feel it was others making snide comments to me. I came on here as a fellow Gooner and just got bored of the digs at me. I sense many others felt the same.

I answer your points, I was born in 1969 and started going regularly in the mid 80s. We were shite on the pitch generally, but I had great days, following the team, getting hold of away tickets without any difficulty and there was a great spirit amongst our fans on the road. We often lost but we had a great days. I just wished we had more success, other than the odd cup run.

So the first 10 years under Wenger was joy to see us playing such beautiful football and winning league titles. It's only now, looking back, how great it was to see how dominant we were. We owe Wenger a great deal.

He clearly lost is way in the last 10 years. I stand by my view that he was constrained in his spending. Was he really happy to go against Jose and Fergie with a sub standard team, with a war chest of money available??!!? I find it difficult to believe that. But I'm sure I'll be mocked here for such a view. How I'm up Wengers arse and I'm being naive.

Nevertheless, he has made errors, as I mentioned earlier in my post. But I'm not going to resort to vitriolic abuse here on a daily basis.

I still love my match days even though I don't go as much as I used to. I'm looking for us to compete this year and challenge for the title. I believe we can compete this year. If we do fall short, I'm not going to start abusing Wenger and constantly hark back to his mistakes in the past. He is a great manager period. Will he leave us in the mess which Fergie did to Utd. No way. He cares about the club too much for that. He has done wonders for the club but I understand the anger for his past failings. Just wish many here had a little more perspective on things.

Will put on my tin hat and look forward to more abuse...........

I'd argue he was a great manager rather than is.

I genuinely think we'll only know about alleged constraints once he has gone. He definitely could have used the resources he did have better in the first few years in the new stadium. Even now he seems a reluctant spender and if that continues whenever a new manager comes in then I think some peoples view will change as to how much the board is holding the club back.

I don't particularly abuse Wenger but I am completely bored of him making the same mistakes over and over again. Signing wise this summer, Xhaka I think is a good one, the jury is out on Perez but Mustafi doesn't solve the underlying defensive issue which is a system/tactics/training/mentality one. Yes we needed to sign a centre back and the better the player then the fewer mistakes they should make but it won't stop us collapsing as usual.

I hope we win the league and make good in roads in the CL, but I certainly don't expect it, as nothing has massively strengthened us over the summer and biggest teams look stronger and have better tacticians in charge.

Lastly, I think your point about Fergie leaving United in a mess is laughable. As much as I hated him, he won the league in his last season, he was the epitome of success. The fact the club didn't properly replace him is not his fault, he had the exact attitude you need as a manager which is the current season is the most important season. The board/owners are responsible for the longer term future. Wenger should be no where near half the things he gets involved with at Arsenal as it distracts him from the job he is employed to do. I wish our manager would create such a "mess" at Arsenal.

With respect, I can't see how anyone can make judgements on Perez or Mustafa when they haven't played a single game.
Not the big names granted but surely give them a chance before judging the effect they have on the team. Sadly I have resigned myself to Wenger never spending really big on top, top players, though getting Ozil was a great signing of an established world class player.

We certainly disagree on Fergie. He's got away with murder due to his pals in the media.
The team he managed were clearly coming to the end of their dominance in his final year - the likes of Giggs, RVP, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra had seen better days. He made no attempt at starting to build a new team.
Fergie clearly was a great manager but he left them in a mess. Moyes had no chance.
They have had to spend hundreds of millions of pounds to get them back challenging.

My point on the new signings, and particularly Mustafi, wasn't to prejudge them before the even played, more I don't think our defensive issues are really about personnel. We've had some defenders who have come with pretty good reputations since we moved stadium but we've never looked particularly solid over the course of a season and it's because of how we play and how we prepare for games. Koscielny in general is an excellent defender but he still gets exposed a fair bit as our formation lacks balance. I never understood why we signed Mertersacker given our system, at the very least you need pace in our system. Terry never had any pace but it doesn't matter too much because Chelsea don't play with a bunch of technical players in midfield offering little cover and full backs who are key players in the attacking plan.

Yep we are going to disagree on the comparison between Fergie leaving United in a mess and Wenger not. If we assume Wenger goes at the end of the season I think the next manager has a huge overhaul on their hands to make us genuine challengers. We've got a fair few players on our books who we can't shift even if we wanted to because of the wages we are paying them (Walcott a prime example) and we aren't exactly overflowing with top talent. It might be a mess for different reasons but a mess it will be, at least Fergie had been successful until the end.

[Sean]

Nice to see LG putting his points across without sniping at people.

It's clear to see that the manager should have gone five years ago. He signed a lot of shit, but unforgivably kept them on for years, paying them obscene wages. The failed vanity projects. Refusing to sign great players unless they fall in his lap. Perpetuating the austerity lie. The Fergie comparison isn't quite right, as he got rid of any duds pretty quickly. He also went out at the top, winning all the way to the end, even if that squad was finished when he did go.

Our manager has been a consistent failure in Europe. Reaching two finals in two decades, considering the talent we had in 97-06, is not good enough. Then there are the title bottlings of 2008, 2010, 2011, 2014 and now 2016. You could also add 1999 and 2003 to that. Then you could also consider the dismal sideways football we've had to endure these past several years - Complete with suicidal defending, blunt attacking and general cowardice. No tactics, no game management, pre-planned 70th minute substitutions, predictable seasons. His behaviour on matchdays (childishly berating the fourth official, yet rarely giving instructions to players) and his contempt for supporters is a disgrace.

He WAS a good manager, when he had the players who ran the game on the pitch and had David Dein encouraging him to sign players and doing the deals for him. He should have left in 2008. His ego has run unchecked since then and it has destroyed his legacy and reputation in a lot of Gooners eyes.

If you look at the last eight years of wilful failure and negligence, there is no way he should still be our manager, getting £23K per day for doing very little.