THE WENGER THREAD

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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DB10GOONER
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by DB10GOONER »

Sean wrote:It is sad that we have grown to despise him, but he has brought it on himself. Had he left in 2008 or been rightfully sacked in 2011, we could have had some positive feelings about him. Had he left in 2014, we could have had a little happiness he went out on a trophy, but he still wouldn't stop and he signed another undeserved contract to continue the purgatory.

I was looking at the old thread about the Invincibles documentary that aired almost two years ago after yet another dicking in the Be All and End All. There are some very good points made about him basically 'becoming God' at the club that season. The Invincibles created this monster. Dein's departure a few years later cemented it.

Ultimately, the man is a fraud. He 'earns' £950 every single hour, but does very little of the standard things a manager does. He lets the players do it all. He teaches them nothing and doesn't offer any guidance. Endless passing drills, five-a-sides, over-exertion in the gym leading to endless injuries. He is absolutely useless on matchdays, with his pre-arranged 70th minute subs and shameful behaviour towards the officials. Unfortunately, since the Cashburton move, he prefers players with minimal backbone, character or strength. Sanchez is a the exception, sadly. Then there's the tortuous sideways football with no penetration and a weak defence; TOF's 'aesthetics over goals'. He is the ultimate football snob.

A new contract for this charlatan is utterly unacceptable, though I fear it will happen anyway. Especially with this particularly passive fanbase thanks to obscene ticket prices, which is another 'success' of the ongoing gentrification of The Arsenal under TOF. I'd take a mid-90s Arsenal at Highbury over this re-branded façade any day.
Great post Sean. On the money, mate. 8)

Redarmy
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Redarmy »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sean wrote:It is sad that we have grown to despise him, but he has brought it on himself. Had he left in 2008 or been rightfully sacked in 2011, we could have had some positive feelings about him. Had he left in 2014, we could have had a little happiness he went out on a trophy, but he still wouldn't stop and he signed another undeserved contract to continue the purgatory.

I was looking at the old thread about the Invincibles documentary that aired almost two years ago after yet another dicking in the Be All and End All. There are some very good points made about him basically 'becoming God' at the club that season. The Invincibles created this monster. Dein's departure a few years later cemented it.

Ultimately, the man is a fraud. He 'earns' £950 every single hour, but does very little of the standard things a manager does. He lets the players do it all. He teaches them nothing and doesn't offer any guidance. Endless passing drills, five-a-sides, over-exertion in the gym leading to endless injuries. He is absolutely useless on matchdays, with his pre-arranged 70th minute subs and shameful behaviour towards the officials. Unfortunately, since the Cashburton move, he prefers players with minimal backbone, character or strength. Sanchez is a the exception, sadly. Then there's the tortuous sideways football with no penetration and a weak defence; TOF's 'aesthetics over goals'. He is the ultimate football snob.

A new contract for this charlatan is utterly unacceptable, though I fear it will happen anyway. Especially with this particularly passive fanbase thanks to obscene ticket prices, which is another 'success' of the ongoing gentrification of The Arsenal under TOF. I'd take a mid-90s Arsenal at Highbury over this re-branded façade any day.
Great post Sean. On the money, mate. 8)

All been said a hundred times before, and he's still here :banghead:

Wilson
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Wilson »

For Wengers fans, from fans like Ty from Arsenal fan TV, to former players like Martin Keown. They simply buy into Wenger's cult of personality. They actually believe their own words when they say 'who else could do a better job'. Wenger fans say that line as if its rhetorical, they ask that question not expecting an answer - in order to create the myth of Wenger's importance. But my answer to the question would go: Simeone, Koeman, Roger Schmidt, Max Allegri, Joachim Low, Thomas Tuchel. And the thing is, Koeman, Allegri, and Schmidt could be very easily attained. But the Wenger fanatics seem utterly convinced no other manager could do a better job. They believe it like Jihadist's believe they go to heaven after blowing themselves up. In your own mind, you think to yourself, these people cant honestly believe this fuking sh.t - but they do, and they dont just believe it, its fuking scripture to them.

So were not dealing with rationale minded people. Were dealing with radicalized Wenger fanatics. Ty from Arsenal Fan TV, Martin Keown, David Seaman. They could be a fan, pundit, former player, celebrity fan, anything. But they call have in common, a gospel belief that Wenger is irreplaceable and should be Arsenal manager in perpetuity. And the idea of replacing him, is blaspheme.

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rodders999
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by rodders999 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
GoonerMuzz wrote:Rodders has more chance of Nat lifting her restraining order than we have of ever being rid of OGL :barscarf: :rubchin: :? :shock: :oops: :cry:
I don't know what the fuck goes on in my head sometimes but I honestly thought that sentence was gonna read; "Rodders has more chance of Nat lifting her big fat old piss flaps up off the floor than we have of ever being rid of OGL" :shock:



:oops: :lol:
:lol:

You gotta see the positives in every situation. Sure some judge says I can't be within 1000 yards of her but all that means to me is that as long as she's not home I'm still free to go through her bins.

8)

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by GoonerMuzz »

Wilson wrote:For Wengers fans, from fans like Ty from Arsenal fan TV, to former players like Martin Keown. They simply buy into Wenger's cult of personality. They actually believe their own words when they say 'who else could do a better job'. Wenger fans say that line as if its rhetorical, they ask that question not expecting an answer - in order to create the myth of Wenger's importance. But my answer to the question would go: Simeone, Koeman, Roger Schmidt, Max Allegri, Joachim Low, Thomas Tuchel. And the thing is, Koeman, Allegri, and Schmidt could be very easily attained. But the Wenger fanatics seem utterly convinced no other manager could do a better job. They believe it like Jihadist's believe they go to heaven after blowing themselves up. In your own mind, you think to yourself, these people cant honestly believe this fuking sh.t - but they do, and they dont just believe it, its fuking scripture to them.

So were not dealing with rationale minded people. Were dealing with radicalized Wenger fanatics. Ty from Arsenal Fan TV, Martin Keown, David Seaman. They could be a fan, pundit, former player, celebrity fan, anything. But they call have in common, a gospel belief that Wenger is irreplaceable and should be Arsenal manager in perpetuity. And the idea of replacing him, is blaspheme.
Wilson, I agree with the above but one of the major points people miss in this debate isn't about who could do better but who could do equally as well. You've put together a list of names of who could potentially improve us but sit back and think of the number of managers who could have kept us at exactly the same point over the last 10 years.

I genuinely think it would surprise some of you when you start putting that list together, some of the names that would pop into your heads are actually quite frightening.

That's the thing these people always equate things to 'who could do better?' but actually for me it's who could have done the exact same but wasted a lot less money, earned a lot less money but at the same time possibly made the football more interesting to watch.... :rubchin:

If i'm going to be stuck in purgatory at least make it interesting and exciting :banghead:

xisstential
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by xisstential »

by GoonerMuzz » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:06 pm

Wilson, I agree with the above but one of the major points people miss in this debate isn't about who could do better but who could do equally as well. You've put together a list of names of who could potentially improve us but sit back and think of the number of managers who could have kept us at exactly the same point over the last 10 years.

I genuinely think it would surprise some of you when you start putting that list together, some of the names that would pop into your heads are actually quite frightening.

That's the thing these people always equate things to 'who could do better?' but actually for me it's who could have done the exact same but wasted a lot less money, earned a lot less money but at the same time possibly made the football more interesting to watch.... :rubchin:

If i'm going to be stuck in purgatory at least make it interesting and exciting :banghead:[/quote]

But he thinks it is, he genuinely does. He believes it is a privilege to come and watch his team play. That's honestly how deluded he actually is. His management style is the equivalent of painting by numbers. That is why toward the end of last season, he was genuinely puzzled, absolutely perplexed really, that Leicester could be winning the title when the stats were so against them. They didn't have the possession stats they never put together 600 tippy, tappy sideways passes.....yet they were winning, how can this be?? He lives and dies by that... the result is irrelevant, look how pretty the football is. And the real tragedy, the thing that he just does not get, is that the football is actually crap. It is style without substance, passing without penetration, possession without any end result.

It's like going to a magnificent theatre & watching awful films week after week. And paying more for the privilege. But who cares right, the seats are comfy & the popcorn is out of this world.

And the manager of the theatre, the one who chooses the films has been there for 30 years, and he says the movies are great.
Last edited by xisstential on Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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OneBardGooner
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by OneBardGooner »

rodders999 wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
GoonerMuzz wrote:Rodders has more chance of Nat lifting her restraining order than we have of ever being rid of OGL :barscarf: :rubchin: :? :shock: :oops: :cry:
I don't know what the fuck goes on in my head sometimes but I honestly thought that sentence was gonna read; "Rodders has more chance of Nat lifting her big fat old piss flaps up off the floor than we have of ever being rid of OGL" :shock:



:oops: :lol:
:lol:

You gotta see the positives in every situation. Sure some judge says I can't be within 1000 yards of her but all that means to me is that as long as she's not home I'm still free to go through her undie drawers.

8)

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Blade
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Blade »

[quote] es, I could use Wilshere now. What looks unfair at some moment in the season is that you know at some stage you could need the player," Wenger said when asked if he regretted allowing the 25-year-old to leave./quote] .But every year Santi's body breaks down.

Wilson
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Wilson »

xisstential wrote:by GoonerMuzz » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:06 pm

Wilson, I agree with the above but one of the major points people miss in this debate isn't about who could do better but who could do equally as well. You've put together a list of names of who could potentially improve us but sit back and think of the number of managers who could have kept us at exactly the same point over the last 10 years.

I genuinely think it would surprise some of you when you start putting that list together, some of the names that would pop into your heads are actually quite frightening.

That's the thing these people always equate things to 'who could do better?' but actually for me it's who could have done the exact same but wasted a lot less money, earned a lot less money but at the same time possibly made the football more interesting to watch.... :rubchin:

If i'm going to be stuck in purgatory at least make it interesting and exciting :banghead:


Thats it, its the 'belief' in his system, and 'belief' in how he thinks the game is best played. Hence my previous post comparing Wenger's belief in his style and philosophy, to religious fundamentalists whose behavior is guided not by reality and truth, but instead by belief.

These type of people are walled off. They have closed their minds to truth and reality, and will reject information that distorts their predetermined view of the world. As mentioned, Wenger is a firm believer in possession, and last season he was puzzled that Leicester could win despite averaging around 40% possession per game.

I remember a game years ago, where Chelsea beat us at the Emirates. Chelsea played deep and narrow and on the counter, we had like 65% possession, but lost 3-0. After the game, Wenger was convinced we were the better team, yet when Ancelotti was interviewed for Chelsea, he had this wry smile on his face when he was told Wenger thought Arsenal deserved to win based on possession. Ancelotti set his team up to play deep and narrow, and pick us off on the counter. So giving up possession was part of Chelsea's game plan, but due to Wenger's philosophy, he finds it incomprehensible that a team would intentionally give up possession as a tactic. Hence Ancelotti's wry smile - because Ancelotti knew Wenger was fuking naive and did not understand the tactical hit job Ancelotti just performed on him.

And thats the problem with 'believing' in a certain style of football, as it diminishes you capacity to see truth. Wenger believes in possession football, which is why he misses the reasons why its possible to win games, and the league without possession. For instance, say we are away and down a few key players, rather than conform and give up possession in favor of keeping formaitonal shape, Wenger will instead apply his beliefs of possession based football. There is no leeway or commitment to reality. Its like a parent refusing their child a blood transfusion because it goes against their beliefs.........in both cases, you think, WTF? Why not give the kid a blood transfusion, and why not forget about possession ? At what stage do 'beliefs' just become fuking insane???

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augie
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by augie »

Wenger is an absolute c.unt 8)

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StuartL
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by StuartL »

Blade wrote:
es, I could use Wilshere now. What looks unfair at some moment in the season is that you know at some stage you could need the player," Wenger said when asked if he regretted allowing the 25-year-old to leave./quote] .But every year Santi's body breaks down.
How about using the knowledge that Elneney is off to the ANC, and therefore absent for 4-6 weeks, to limit Jack's loan period to 6 months.

Then re-asses the situation during the very busy January window and decide at the end of it If Arsenal need him, or we can afford to loan him out again.

30 fucking years and still hasn't got a clue :banghead: :banghead:

xisstential
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by xisstential »

StuartL wrote:
Blade wrote:
es, I could use Wilshere now. What looks unfair at some moment in the season is that you know at some stage you could need the player," Wenger said when asked if he regretted allowing the 25-year-old to leave./quote] .But every year Santi's body breaks down.
How about using the knowledge that Elneney is off to the ANC, and therefore absent for 4-6 weeks, to limit Jack's loan period to 6 months.

Then re-asses the situation during the very busy January window and decide at the end of it If Arsenal need him, or we can afford to loan him out again.

30 fucking years and still hasn't got a clue :banghead: :banghead:
I guarantee you, 2 weeks back under Wenger's advanced,state of the art training regime and Jack will be back in the hands of our wretched medical team.

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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by OneBardGooner »

augie wrote:Wenger is an absolute c.unt 8)
I concur 1,000 fold.

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Sean
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Sean »

So we fluke another win after an awful performance. TOF gets away with it again.

It goes to show how bare bones we are with that line-up and bench today. Without Sanchez and Ozil we are even more bang average.

Good points made above. I despise this possession football dogma that we are stuck with. It is torture to watch.

Make it stop! :banghead:
DB10GOONER wrote:Great post Sean. On the money, mate. 8)
Cheers mate 8)

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VoiceOfReason
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by VoiceOfReason »

The club is dead to me, AFAIC. I used to think that once Wenger finally fucked off, I'd pick up right where I left off, but I don't think that's going to happen anymore.

Looking ahead, he's going to leave on his own terms - which, given the last decade, is an absolute disgrace. He does not deserve to leave on his own terms, and the media wankfest will be insufferable. And then, even when he's gone, the stadium's still going to be full of the people who kept him here for so long. And then, when the "One Arsene Wenger" chant breaks out at the very first game after he's left...

Nope. Not signing up for any of that. The club, and its fans, can go fuck themselves.

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