THE WENGER THREAD

[DB10GOONER]

Anyone seen the Mirror - they have asked their writer and pundits to say whether Wenger should stay or go.

This is a quote from John Cross: "And why would anyone risk finishing eighth by sacking the most successful manager they've ever had? A change won't guarantee improvement."

Neville said something similar on Sky. So I guess this is the new talking point. It used to be 'who else would you replace him with', or 'be careful what you wish for'. But now the new narrative is 'do you want to finish 8th'.

Its the old straw man argument, with wikipedia's definition as follows: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

They attach 'finishing 8th' to sacking Wenger, as a way to de-legitimize genuine criticism of Wenger. They always attack sacking Wenger to eithr finishing 8th, or ending up like Man United's David Moyes. However, who in the media ever talks about how Chelsea sacked Mourinho and got in Conte when it became apparent Jose's time was up? Neville brands Arsenal fans idiots, and John Cross and Darren Lewis always take the moral high ground, however, its only they who are engaging in straw man arguments and telling horror stories in an effort to scare Arsenal fans into blind support. Its the media and pundits supporting Wenger who are the irresponsible ones. Its they who cant have a conversation about Wenger without attaching some bullshit horror story about finishing 8th or ending up like Moyes Man United.

Seriously where have you been for the last 10 years? The media and the AKB have been using that excuse for 10 years now ffs.

[augie]

Anyone seen the Mirror - they have asked their writer and pundits to say whether Wenger should stay or go.

This is a quote from John Cross: "And why would anyone risk finishing eighth by sacking the most successful manager they've ever had? A change won't guarantee improvement."

Neville said something similar on Sky. So I guess this is the new talking point. It used to be 'who else would you replace him with', or 'be careful what you wish for'. But now the new narrative is 'do you want to finish 8th'.

Its the old straw man argument, with wikipedia's definition as follows: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

They attach 'finishing 8th' to sacking Wenger, as a way to de-legitimize genuine criticism of Wenger. They always attack sacking Wenger to eithr finishing 8th, or ending up like Man United's David Moyes. However, who in the media ever talks about how Chelsea sacked Mourinho and got in Conte when it became apparent Jose's time was up? Neville brands Arsenal fans idiots, and John Cross and Darren Lewis always take the moral high ground, however, its only they who are engaging in straw man arguments and telling horror stories in an effort to scare Arsenal fans into blind support. Its the media and pundits supporting Wenger who are the irresponsible ones. Its they who cant have a conversation about Wenger without attaching some bullshit horror story about finishing 8th or ending up like Moyes Man United.

Seriously where have you been for the last 10 years? The media and the AKB have been using that excuse for 10 years now ffs.

Every so often the aisa or some supporters groups organize a Q and A with some ex-Arsenal player or gazidas or someone of that ilk .........maybe the next time they should be asking cross or some other media c.unt to appear - I am sick of these c.unts having free reign to say what they want without being challenged to back up their b*llshit Neville can get the hump and disrespect arsenalfantv if he wants (understandable to some degree), but the reality is that the fans have some legitimate views that should be aired and put to the meeja c.unts.

Let cross come to a meeting and put credible reasons why he thinks that losing wenker will see us drop to 8th.
Let him explain how changing their manager hasn't resulted in the chavs dropping to 8th.
Let him explain how Leicester can finish 10 points ahead of us and actually win a league title.
Let him explain why wenker continues to employ a failed tactical system.

W**kers like cross are brave men when it comes to spouting bullshit unchallenged - I would pay good money for the chance to publicly tear his statements apart

[flash gunner]

I dont care if we finish 8th the champions league means nothing anymore.....

Has he gone yet?

[rodders999]

John Cross and Gary Neville are right, we could end up 8th if Wenger goes and look if your perspective on the world is glass half empty like theirs obviously is we could end up 15th.

But do they not think they is any possibility that maybe things could improve under a new manager? That maybe we could go away to Old Trafford, Anfield, The Swamp, Goodison, The Etihad, Stamford Bridge and not play like limp dick cowards. That training methods might improve, that in game management might improve, that tactics might be tailored to suit the opposition, that player attitude could improve? That maybe, just maybe we could go into a season with a genuine chance of challenging at home and in Europe instead of just making up the numbers?

The Chavs finished 10th last season a full THIRTY ONE points behind the champions and in the summer they brought in a new manager. Did the sky fall in? Are they now languishing in the relegation zone? Or has he, with the addition of just one signing and a complete tactical overhaul of the team, have the league all but sown up in February,

Some turn around that.......be careful what you wish for indeed

[DB10GOONER]

I dont care if we finish 8th the champions league means nothing anymore.....

Has he gone yet?

That's the thing for me too. I could not give a shit if removing Wenger meant the new manager struggled for a few seasons and we were not qualifying for the shit CL. It would be better than this terminal groundhog season bollocks we are suffering through now.

And who is to say that a new manager would not come in and win the PL in his first season?

[DB10GOONER]

John Cross and Gary Neville are right, we could end up 8th if Wenger goes and look if your perspective on the world is glass half empty like theirs obviously is we could end up 15th.

But do they not think they is any possibility that maybe things could improve under a new manager? That maybe we could go away to Old Trafford, Anfield, The Swamp, Goodison, The Etihad, Stamford Bridge and not play like limp dick cowards. That training methods might improve, that in game management might improve, that tactics might be tailored to suit the opposition, that player attitude could improve? That maybe, just maybe we could go into a season with a genuine chance of challenging at home and in Europe instead of just making up the numbers?

The Chavs finished 10th last season a full THIRTY ONE points behind the champions and in the summer they brought in a new manager. Did the sky fall in? Are they now languishing in the relegation zone? Or has he, with the addition of just one signing and a complete tactical overhaul of the team, have the league all but sown up in February,

Some turn around that.......be careful what you wish for indeed

Great post rodders.

[Redarmy]

John Cross and Gary Neville are right, we could end up 8th if Wenger goes and look if your perspective on the world is glass half empty like theirs obviously is we could end up 15th.

But do they not think they is any possibility that maybe things could improve under a new manager? That maybe we could go away to Old Trafford, Anfield, The Swamp, Goodison, The Etihad, Stamford Bridge and not play like limp dick cowards. That training methods might improve, that in game management might improve, that tactics might be tailored to suit the opposition, that player attitude could improve? That maybe, just maybe we could go into a season with a genuine chance of challenging at home and in Europe instead of just making up the numbers?

The Chavs finished 10th last season a full THIRTY ONE points behind the champions and in the summer they brought in a new manager. Did the sky fall in? Are they now languishing in the relegation zone? Or has he, with the addition of just one signing and a complete tactical overhaul of the team, have the league all but sown up in February,

Some turn around that.......be careful what you wish for indeed

Great post rodders.

thats twice in a week now...hes nailed it

[Redarmy]

Interesting comments from Craig Burley in todays Sun newspaper online.....

"The Arsenal fans are spineless. The Arsenal fans are a mirror image of their team - weak, mentally weak.

"How can the Arsenal fans continue to accept what they get every year?

"They pay for their tickets and following their club across Europe and up and down the country in England and they accept the mediocrity.”


Good the debate is continuing in the media....can only help

[DB10GOONER]

Interesting comments from Craig Burley in todays Sun newspaper online.....

"The Arsenal fans are spineless. The Arsenal fans are a mirror image of their team - weak, mentally weak.

"How can the Arsenal fans continue to accept what they get every year?

"They pay for their tickets and following their club across Europe and up and down the country in England and they accept the mediocrity.”


Good the debate is continuing in the media....can only help

Yep great to have "Premier League legend" Craig Burley on board....

But in fairness what the bitter bastard is saying is true. And as you say it getting brought up in the media can only help. But tbh I still hold that Wenger has a neck like a jockey's bollocks and he will only go when he wants to go. Unfortunately.

[rodders999]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/ ... ce=dlvr.it

Well worth a read. Great to see such discourse on the subject of the manager leaving. Good times.

[OneBardGooner]

Feels like 1983 and an era coming to end at Arsenal. It's going to be a painful few months. Disharmony between players and management.

Hope Wenger wins a 7th FA cup and retires.

WHAT!?

You do realise that should we win the FA Cup this season - That will be all the excuse he needs to sign another feckin' contract....Awful and sad Yes, but it is the truth...We need for him to win feck-all and finish outside the Top 4 in order for there to be any significant and serious momentum, that might cause him to Not sign.

We are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea - ie: We are fucked, BUT if winning fuck-all this season and not getting in the top 4 means the c.unt fucksoff then so be it.

Besides I can see the scum finishing above us this season and that would be yet another nail in the c.unts coffin, at least I hope it would.

[arseofacrow]

John Cross and Gary Neville are right, we could end up 8th if Wenger goes and look if your perspective on the world is glass half empty like theirs obviously is we could end up 15th.

But do they not think they is any possibility that maybe things could improve under a new manager? That maybe we could go away to Old Trafford, Anfield, The Swamp, Goodison, The Etihad, Stamford Bridge and not play like limp dick cowards. That training methods might improve, that in game management might improve, that tactics might be tailored to suit the opposition, that player attitude could improve? That maybe, just maybe we could go into a season with a genuine chance of challenging at home and in Europe instead of just making up the numbers?

The Chavs finished 10th last season a full THIRTY ONE points behind the champions and in the summer they brought in a new manager. Did the sky fall in? Are they now languishing in the relegation zone? Or has he, with the addition of just one signing and a complete tactical overhaul of the team, have the league all but sown up in February,

Some turn around that.......be careful what you wish for indeed

Great post rodders.

thats twice in a week now...hes nailed it

see what happens when he stops knocking one out for five minutes.

Unless he's knocking one out while simultaneously composing forum posts. In which case,

[rodders999]

John Cross and Gary Neville are right, we could end up 8th if Wenger goes and look if your perspective on the world is glass half empty like theirs obviously is we could end up 15th.

But do they not think they is any possibility that maybe things could improve under a new manager? That maybe we could go away to Old Trafford, Anfield, The Swamp, Goodison, The Etihad, Stamford Bridge and not play like limp dick cowards. That training methods might improve, that in game management might improve, that tactics might be tailored to suit the opposition, that player attitude could improve? That maybe, just maybe we could go into a season with a genuine chance of challenging at home and in Europe instead of just making up the numbers?

The Chavs finished 10th last season a full THIRTY ONE points behind the champions and in the summer they brought in a new manager. Did the sky fall in? Are they now languishing in the relegation zone? Or has he, with the addition of just one signing and a complete tactical overhaul of the team, have the league all but sown up in February,

Some turn around that.......be careful what you wish for indeed

Great post rodders.

thats twice in a week now...hes nailed it

see what happens when he stops knocking one out for five minutes.

Unless he's knocking one out while simultaneously composing forum posts. In which case,

Bastards

[northbank123]

I dont care if we finish 8th the champions league means nothing anymore.....

Has he gone yet?

Absolutely. Couldn't give a flying fuck.

The 4th placed trophy has been blown out of the water because the PL TV money and resulting commercial revenue absolutely dwarves the revenue from reaching last 16 of CL rather than being in EL.

Likewise it is naive in the extreme to suggest that ability to get walloped in the first knockout round of the CL is the decisive factor in being able to attract players.

[OneBardGooner]

John Cross and Gary Neville are right, we could end up 8th if Wenger goes and look if your perspective on the world is glass half empty like theirs obviously is we could end up 15th.

But do they not think they is any possibility that maybe things could improve under a new manager? That maybe we could go away to Old Trafford, Anfield, The Swamp, Goodison, The Etihad, Stamford Bridge and not play like limp dick cowards. That training methods might improve, that in game management might improve, that tactics might be tailored to suit the opposition, that player attitude could improve? That maybe, just maybe we could go into a season with a genuine chance of challenging at home and in Europe instead of just making up the numbers?

The Chavs finished 10th last season a full THIRTY ONE points behind the champions and in the summer they brought in a new manager. Did the sky fall in? Are they now languishing in the relegation zone? Or has he, with the addition of just one signing and a complete tactical overhaul of the team, have the league all but sown up in February,

Some turn around that.......be careful what you wish for indeed

I say Rodder's Old Chap that is very insightful and absolutely on the horses whatsit! Well Done and keep Up The Knuckle Shuffling if it is going to inspire and produce such observations!