THE WENGER THREAD

[augie]

Btw I will never take credit away from wenker for signing one of the greatest Arsenal players in my lifetime (PV4), and for signing a kid that could and should have been one of the top goalscorers in the history of our club (anelka)

[DB10GOONER]

This story has nothing to do with Cross... and Auclair mooted it long before Wenger needed his mates to continuously back him publicly. I think the Wenger hate on here has gone to the level where people cannot bring themselves to admit he was once a good manager or that he was (probably) partly to thank for our greatest ever signing. Next we'll have people saying Wenger had nothing to do with signing Vieira... Or that it was really GG that put together the 2004 Invincibles defence!

I also fail to understand the Rioch-love on here. The man was a charlatan, a small minded, small-time manager, not only out of his depth at The Arsenal, but a bitter bastard too, that thought Arsenal would be better off without Ian Wright, because he personally disliked Wrighty. An absolute pillock to use the vernacular.

This isn't a rioch love in at all - I just cannot agree with the theory that any manager would sign a player for a club 16 months before he was appointed manager For me that bizarre suggestion by wenkers french journo buddy, and a man who is a self confessed rioch hater (wrighty), does absolutely nothing for credibility of this story for me

I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Wenger wasn't signing Bergkamp for himself. He was advising his buddy Dein that Bergkamp was available and would be a good Arsenal signing, end of. At that point it is very doubtful that either Dein or Wenger had any inkling that Wenger would become manager a year and a half later.

So stick that up your hole ya Rioch-Loving Bald Bastard.

[armchair]

I remember those days well. I had wanted George out for a couple years and it came as a shock but somewhat of a relief when and the manner in which he left.

I defo wanted Stewart Houston to take over and then I was 100% wanting Rioch. Dont think he got enough time tbh but we got Wenger and the rest is history I suppose

[flash gunner]

This story has nothing to do with Cross... and Auclair mooted it long before Wenger needed his mates to continuously back him publicly. I think the Wenger hate on here has gone to the level where people cannot bring themselves to admit he was once a good manager or that he was (probably) partly to thank for our greatest ever signing. Next we'll have people saying Wenger had nothing to do with signing Vieira... Or that it was really GG that put together the 2004 Invincibles defence!

I also fail to understand the Rioch-love on here. The man was a charlatan, a small minded, small-time manager, not only out of his depth at The Arsenal, but a bitter bastard too, that thought Arsenal would be better off without Ian Wright, because he personally disliked Wrighty. An absolute pillock to use the vernacular.

I think thats unfair. A pro-Wenger journo says something is true and we all have to believe like the gospel.... To say Wenger spotted Bergkamp was unhappy at Inter and knew he could be bought is like saying Liam Brady is Irish or augie is bald Everyone knew it at the time it was plainly obvious to anyone who watched football..... Wenger was no genius spotting that one!!!

I also think its unfair to say the last 10 years have clouded my memory of Wenger they havent, his achievement of going unbeaten is the greatest in the clubs history IMO and i have a full knowledge of the club before him. Also there is noi love in with Rioch who ranks with (but below) the types of managers as Phil Brown, Allardyce etc. again IMO

[augie]

There is a HUGE difference between what you are saying and what auclair and wrighty are apparently saying - hell I even knew that Bergkamp was unhappy in Milan and everyone knew who he was and what great potential he had (didn't he win a uefa player of the tournament for one of their trophies just 2 years previously ?), so it isn't as if it was a total shot in the dark or some unknown that DD signed In my opinion people are trying to use wenkers early reputation for brilliant signings, and are trying to shoehorn him into every successful deal we did at that time That mindset thoroughly disrespects DD who was outstanding in the transfer market back then

[DB10GOONER]

augie, Flash - it's okay for you both to be wrong. Just deal with it.

But seriously, tbh I think you are viewing the past a leetle beet with the jaded eyes somewhat. No one "knew" Bergkamp was unhappy at Inter. It was obvious he wasn't playing well and that the Italian game did not suit him. But Inter had paid a kings ransom for him and he was a high profile signing, thus no other clubs even inquired about him, and it would be a serious optimist that would think he was "gettable" without some inside knowledge.

No one said Wenger signed Bergkamp. They said he advised Dein. If (and it is only "if") Wenger did advise DD that Bergkamp could be got, saying that is not disrespectful to DD, that's a silly thing to say tbh. Do you honestly think DD picked every Arsenal player he signed? He was told by GG and Wenger who was wanted and Dein did the deals, he didn't pick players. And in Bergkamp's case, Dein still had to get in there and do the deal, something he was good at, but not "outstanding" at, if you follow augie's reasoning, and you look at the amount of duds we also signed in those days.

I suppose those dud signings were not Dein's, but Wenger's, huh?

[Bob Bayliss]

As I've said, Rioch will be remembered as a footnote in our history but it is both illogical and unfair not to give him a measure of credit for the Bergkamp signing however little he did to actually clinch the deal. Had Bergkamp proved an unforeseen disaster (for example injury prone or a disruptive), or broken down with a foreseeable injury which hadn't been properly checked, the manager would have been fully accountable. It is profoundly unfair to say he should be given no reflected credit when DB was signed under his watch.

[flash gunner]

augie, Flash - it's okay for you both to be wrong. Just deal with it.

But seriously, tbh I think you are viewing the past a leetle beet with the jaded eyes somewhat. No one "knew" Bergkamp was unhappy at Inter. It was obvious he wasn't playing well and that the Italian game did not suit him. But Inter had paid a kings ransom for him and he was a high profile signing, thus no other clubs even inquired about him, and it would be a serious optimist that would think he was "gettable" without some inside knowledge.

No one said Wenger signed Bergkamp. They said he advised Dein. If (and it is only "if") Wenger did advise DD that Bergkamp could be got, saying that is not disrespectful to DD, that's a silly thing to say tbh. Do you honestly think DD picked every Arsenal player he signed? He was told by GG and Wenger who was wanted and Dein did the deals, he didn't pick players. And in Bergkamp's case, Dein still had to get in there and do the deal, something he was good at, but not "outstanding" at, if you follow augie's reasoning, and you look at the amount of duds we also signed in those days.

I suppose those dud signings were not Dein's, but Wenger's, huh?

I agree with some of that but Inter paid £7.1m for him and Jonk two poor years later we paid £7.5 for Bergkamp alone. Anyone is gettable if you pay the right price. Wenger is no genius for working that out

[DB10GOONER]

As I've said, Rioch will be remembered as a footnote in our history but it is both illogical and unfair not to give him some degree of credit for the Bergkamp signing however little he did to actually clinch the deal. Had Bergkamp proved an unforeseen disaster (for example injury prone or a disruptive), or broken down with a foreseeable injury which hadn't been properly checked, the manager would have been fully accountable. It is profoundly unfair to say he should be given no reflected credit when DB was signed under his watch.

Why does he need to get credit? Whether or not Wenger advised Dein, Wrighty and Auclair have both publicly stated that Rioch had nothing to do with the Bergkamp signing. Why has Rioch not countered that?

If Dein phoned him and said "I can get Bergkamp", you are telling me Rioch of all people took some kind of "risk" by saying yes or whatever he said and he should get credit for that? No offence mate but, seriously?

[DB10GOONER]

Rioch had nothing to do with signing Bergkamp. In his own words, bitches;

Rioch says: "I asked the coaching staff what we needed and they said that there was no need to touch the back end but that we might need someone up front because Alan Smith had retired and Kevin Campbell was about to join Nottingham Forest. When I reported back to Ken Friar and David Dein, they mentioned that Bergkamp might be available and what did I think? I said that I would take him like a shot, and we went out and got him".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/237805 ... tions.html

Personally I believe the story that Wenger was the one that tipped Dein off, as it is classic Wenger; his ego telling him to interfere.

[Retro Gunner]

Seem to remember something on TV years ago, or maybe I read it (can't remember if it was an interview with Rioch, or whoever), but I'm sure it was saying that Rioch visited Dennis and his wife and convinced them to come to London and join the Arsenal. Dennis liked what Rioch had to say and decided to come, although in his own mind, he initially planned only a couple of seasons, until his career was back on track.

I can't corroborate that, but I'm sure that was the story I heard / read. This, of course, does not mean that DD, or anyone else, had not already put the wheels in motion.

[Sean]

Page 1997.

[Retro Gunner]

augie, Flash - it's okay for you both to be wrong. Just deal with it.

But seriously, tbh I think you are viewing the past a leetle beet with the jaded eyes somewhat. No one "knew" Bergkamp was unhappy at Inter. It was obvious he wasn't playing well and that the Italian game did not suit him. But Inter had paid a kings ransom for him and he was a high profile signing, thus no other clubs even inquired about him, and it would be a serious optimist that would think he was "gettable" without some inside knowledge.

No one said Wenger signed Bergkamp. They said he advised Dein. If (and it is only "if") Wenger did advise DD that Bergkamp could be got, saying that is not disrespectful to DD, that's a silly thing to say tbh. Do you honestly think DD picked every Arsenal player he signed? He was told by GG and Wenger who was wanted and Dein did the deals, he didn't pick players. And in Bergkamp's case, Dein still had to get in there and do the deal, something he was good at, but not "outstanding" at, if you follow augie's reasoning, and you look at the amount of duds we also signed in those days.

I suppose those dud signings were not Dein's, but Wenger's, huh?

I agree with some of that but Inter paid £7.1m for him and Jonk two poor years later we paid £7.5 for Bergkamp alone. Anyone is gettable if you pay the right price. Wenger is no genius for working that out

To be honest Flash, I don't think that Wenger has EVER worked that out

[northbank123]

About the managers generally, I really admire Conte and how he represent himself in public. Look a the difference between him and Mouwanker regarding yesterdays bust up during the match. Conte just shrugs it off while Mou makes it all about himself and how well he managed the situation. Fuck him!

http://www.football365.com/news/conte-m ... ine-circus

And Eddie Jones. Don't really follow rugby but I've been reading how Jones has transformed England into a team that even the All Blacks are fearful of.

Can't knock winning every game but it does help that England have both more registered players and a higher revenue than basically the rest of word rugby combined, plus a talent pool which is only bettered by NZ.

[xisstential]

About the managers generally, I really admire Conte and how he represent himself in public. Look a the difference between him and Mouwanker regarding yesterdays bust up during the match. Conte just shrugs it off while Mou makes it all about himself and how well he managed the situation. Fuck him!

http://www.football365.com/news/conte-m ... ine-circus

And Eddie Jones. Don't really follow rugby but I've been reading how Jones has transformed England into a team that even the All Blacks are fearful of.

Can't knock winning every game but it does help that England have both more registered players and a higher revenue than basically the rest of word rugby combined, plus a talent pool which is only bettered by NZ.

I love rugby and follow it closely, and I have not read anywhere that the AB's fear England. The AB's fear nobody, they have been the best in the world for the past decade for a reason. Jones is a genius coach though...he got the Japanese to beat the Springboks, when the Boks were still allowed to play rugby.