ITS ALL OUR FAULT

[Justin-the-Gooner]

Although I reckon the press are making more then what Wenger meant by that comment I still think he is in the wrong.

How about having one of the best away fans in England if not the world?

Also I was at Ashburton at the weekend and I thought there was a good atmosphere, I know we were not loud when we were losing and some of it was singing when we are winning but I though the noise in the second half was top class.

Also how about us never putting a match at Ashburton on general sale. And having 60000 a week for as long as I can remember?

My final thought on the matter is this; how can we expect to have all our best support to be at the home games when they are being outpriced by yuppies.

At least we still have the away fans.

[BournemouthRED]

[quote="Justin-the-Gooner"]Also how about us never putting a match at Ashburton on general sale. And having 60000 a week for as long as I can remember?[quote]

60000? i take it thats official arsenal figures

and why would they want to put a game on general sale when the touts sell a large porportion of our home tickets

[2007_gooner]

i'd love to see EVERY ONE in the ground hold up a red and white scarf!!!








They gave em away at chelsea for the roma game.

I was about to post the same thing.

Chelsea leave a blue and white scarf on every seat in the ground for EVERY (not just Roma) champions league game. why arsenal cannot do this i do not know. How much do those scarfs cost to produce they was selling them for a fiver about a year ago. i wouldnt think they cost more than £1 to produce.
They could use the £1.85 they take off everyone for processing fees on tickets when it is all done by computer.

I posted something like this a year ago after watching a newcastle game and seeing how good it looked with a whole stadium with a black and white scarf standing up singing. Arsenal then brought out a Bar scarf and it was posted on here for prople to bring them to games.

[61NeverAgain]

The Club has no real interest in matchday atmosphere, if they had they would have set aside more than the current 500 seats for the RedAction area which makes up less than 1% of Stadium capacity and not postion it in a corner as far away from the away fans as possible , Sadly it is hardly surprising that the old hardcore fans are voting with their feet and watching games in pubs instead where you can guarantee an atmosphere.

[Boomer]

I find it disappointing that an annoying that some of you are against Red Action.

Firstly I'm not a member nor do I know anybody but I am in the same section.

Red Action is a no membership, none exclusive group of fans that want to make a difference to the match day atmosphere.

So rather then moan about the atmosphere do something about it! Red action are!
There problem is the club. It's more disappointing reading the recent club statment. They should support the fans more (Including providing finance to Red action!).

With regards to the the stadium the idea of putting two areas of singing fans together would have limited the noise to one corner.
The better idea would be to have them at opposites and for the noise to spread around! Simple, No?

Where the club failed is they should have kept season ticket holders at the Clock Ender together at the end near to the away fans. North bank upper and lower together at the opposite end. Same with east and west upper and lower.
Some could and would have changed but the majority would have remaind with there original 'ends'/sides were. Plus with Red action in one corner.
Now everyones anywhere and everywhere!!!

I know if I wasn't in block 5 and say on the sides. I know I would have the confidenc to stand up and sing on my own. I bet there's a load of fans wrongly placed.

Rant over!

[steve1987]

I think it is patently obvious that the RedAction areas need expanding. Everyone agrees with that. Logistically, i genuinely don't know how easy that is to do.

However, this isn't a question of noise. Let's get it right, Arsene isn't moaning about lack of noise. He is questioning the negativity.

And I agree. I'm not one to start a song there - I'll join in, and I'm in the majority there. But I will never boo a player or a performance.

That's what Arsene is getting at. He is fed up with Eboue being booed, with Adebayor being groaned at constantly, with the team being booed off at half-time when 1-0 down.

He's right here surely. Negativity just doesn't help. Adebayor was useless on Saturday, yet we need to get behind him at the ground. Watching on Tuesday on the box I can abuse him as much as I want, but at the Emirates they all need our support, surely?

As I type this i see the banner at Villa - The Holte End: The 12th Man. Interesting. We just can't say that at the moment about Emirates, but that's not what Arsene is getting out, to my mind anyway.

[Gooner1315]

The club need to move the Family Enclosure and stick REDaction or another organised group there to get the atmosphere going, then that way you've got the banter with the away fans, and then you've got blocks 5/6 in the North End and blocks 24/25/26/27/28 plus block 19 on the opposite side of the away fans all creating atmosphere. It's no good having family's basically next to the away fans then getting hit by random away fans walking out is there??

AND CHANGE THE SONG THE PLAYERS WALK OUT TOO, THE FUCKING "WONDER OF YOU" JUST DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rtpgooner]

The club havent done anything to help themselves tho by having 7000 co-operate fans every game. these people turn up, sit down with their prawn sandwiches and just expect us to turn it on and win every game.

This is the biggest myth about the stadium.

I have sat in Club Level three times.

DB10 has sat up there a bit, so has SWL Gooner. Ask them what they think.

There are plenty of genuine long standing fans up there, who sing and get behind the team.

There are plenty of corporates in the regular seats as well.

Plenty of early leavers in regular seats too.

Im not having a pop at genuine arsenal supporters in club level, its the amount of tickets avaliable which are used by people who arent fans, there "for business" as discussed here

http://www.onlinegooner.com/phpbb2/view ... sc&start=0

Does anyone know how many season ticket holders there are, including club level etc out of 60.000, how many go on sale to silver/red?

[g88ner]

However, this isn't a question of noise. Let's get it right, Arsene isn't moaning about lack of noise. He is questioning the negativity.

I agree Stevie, and before I continue... I'm not one of the boo boys, but I understand why they do it, as I explain below....

Simply, it's frustration, and I think Wenger is as guilty as anyone for creating this negative atmosphere, as it's his team.. and they're his players...

- Like it or not, the fans will never warm to Ade after his antics over the summer, so if Wenger keeps playing him, then groans will follow. Simple.

- We have the worst defensive lineup since before Graham took over in the 1980's. I really believe that. The fans have been brought up on top quality defending by the likes of Adams, Bould, Keown, O'Leary, etc. and now we have 2 clowns at centre half, with Denilson and Cesc shielding the back 4... which quite frankly, for a club of our ambition, is a joke!

- we're ridiculously inconsistent. This season, our players have proved one thing... they're world class as long as they're in the mood and the opposition give us time and space. However, the attitude we showed against Fulham, Hull, and the lack of anything up at Sunderland, sums this squad up. Again... for the fans, it's frustrating.

- Then we have the whole finacncial issue. The inability to keep hold of Hleb and Flamini, as well as the false promises, and lack of action on the transfer market has left the fans underwhelmed and angry. The fact that it's now out that we still have £30m in the transfer kitty - untouched! - is obviously going to add to the frustration.

So, in a nutshell, when the boss refuses to spend the money we've made available to him, and the results aren't good enough... then suprise, suprise, the fans aren't happy.

Not rocket science, Arsene. The boo boys are just respondng to your mistakes.

Again... I give the players my full support in games so don't get pissy at me!

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Boomer,

Can you tell me exactly what RedAction do these days to help encourage atmosphere in the ground (it used to be their main objective)?

Look at there current home page.........

http://www.redaction.org.uk/front.html

Why in the list of contents on the left does The Rocket come above chants? Strange for an organisation whose mandate was to bring atmosphere back to the ground!

How many times on the front page do they need to mention The Rocket? What appears to you to be the most important thing? Hmmm. dunno but I would say, you guessed it...........The Rocket!

Why is there no mention of an iniative to create more atmosphere at the ground but they trumpet an Arsenal version of the Yellow Pages? Just what we need! When my water tank splits I only want a Gooner to repair it and I don't mind if I flood my house waiting for one to turn up! Very handy!

Look at the acheivements, even this now tells us the knees up is held in The Rocket! Acheived what? Better bar takings?

Nobody is knocking the work they do for charity etc and it is to be applauded but let's be honest, this has sod all to do with bringing atmosphere to the ground.

Look at the chants section! Hardly new stuff is it! Why has nobody from RedAction visitied our chants thread to take across the new ideas and to see if they can take off? Why have they not got a space where you can submit new songs?

Look at the RedActions statement on why they exist...........

"REDaction is a group of match going fans who have united with the intention of bringing even more fun and noise to match days. It’s an open forum which anyone can join to contribute to or suggest ideas for adding vibrancy to the average home match experience. We’re talking about new ideas and suggestions for changing the way things are done.

The main core of REDaction comprises twelve fans from other organisations and several who were there at the start of it all. We were originally formed when the club wanted a group of fans to form and suggest ideas for Highbury events but we’ve gone on to do so much since which you can find more about here.

We’ve worked to build a fantastic network in the Arsenal community and while we work closely with various facets of the club, we are very much independent and strike the balance to ensure fans are as happy with what we do as possible. We count Arsenal World, AWIMB, The Gooner, Ham & High, Islington Gazette, Arseblog. AISA and Arsenal Mania as much valued allies in our efforts and that list is growing all the time.

Our mission statement: "To bring Arsenal back to its faithful fans and buck the trend of growing indifference in English club football"

Simple really. Nobody can doubt football in this country has changed massively and we want to bring back an element of colour and eccentricity which has been slowly disappearing in the top flight."

Not one mention of promoting noise/atmosphere inside the ground! Very odd! I thought they would be telling us about getting behind the team and singing your heart out in support of Arsenal!

Also, "home match experience" Now where have I heard about the matchday experience before? Oh yes, Arsenal.com with every piece of promotion they push to plug selling over priced packages!

I haven't even got to the march yet which leaves The Rocket a whole fifteen minutes before kick off! What the fuck! Clever idea for a group who, for some reason, everyone believes are all about cranking up the volume inside the ground!

The truth is RedAction survive for the Rocket now, coincidently since they got a page on Arsenal.com's website and removed all the offensive stuff about AFC from their own!

Nobody should knock them for what they do but please let's all see sense and realise that they are not the saviours of atmosphere but rather a group of people who like to drink together, sing a few songs in their pub and raise some money for charity!

Lastly, it is not the RedAction section, it is blocks 5 and 6!

[QuartzGooner]

Grey areas exist though.

I know corporate fans who use their tickets to entertain clients, but the fans themselves are Arsenal fans.

Club Level and the Boxes bring in about 95% of money per game as the whole of Highbury did in total.
These levels were a key part in paying for the new stadium, and for ongoing revenue.

I have also sat in Box Level.

Interesting up there, because even though most are owned by companies, the companies are quite often those run by Arsenal fans who want to go to games with friends, plus some clients.

To be honest I found more of an atmosphere there than in the lower tier at times!

[steve1987]

However, this isn't a question of noise. Let's get it right, Arsene isn't moaning about lack of noise. He is questioning the negativity.

I agree Stevie, and before I continue... I'm not one of the boo boys, but I understand why they do it, as I explain below....

Simply, it's frustration, and I think Wenger is as guilty as anyone for creating this negative atmosphere, as it's his team.. and they're his players...

- Like it or not, the fans will never warm to Ade after his antics over the summer, so if Wenger keeps playing him, then groans will follow. Simple.

- We have the worst defensive lineup since before Graham took over in the 1980's. I really believe that. The fans have been brought up on top quality defending by the likes of Adams, Bould, Keown, O'Leary, etc. and now we have 2 clowns at centre half, with Denilson and Cesc shielding the back 4... which quite frankly, for a club of our ambition, is a joke!

- we're ridiculously inconsistent. This season, our players have proved one thing... they're world class as long as they're in the mood and the opposition give us time and space. However, the attitude we showed against Fulham, Hull, and the lack of anything up at Sunderland, sums this squad up. Again... for the fans, it's frustrating.

- Then we have the whole finacncial issue. The inability to keep hold of Hleb and Flamini, as well as the false promises, and lack of action on the transfer market has left the fans underwhelmed and angry. The fact that it's now out that we still have £30m in the transfer kitty - untouched! - is obviously going to add to the frustration.

So, in a nutshell, when the boss refuses to spend the money we've made available to him, and the results aren't good enough... then suprise, suprise, the fans aren't happy.

Not rocket science, Arsene. The boo boys are just respondng to your mistakes.

Again... I give the players my full support in games so don't get pissy at me!

I'm not gonna get pissy at you, if you don't boo.

But what you're doing is explaining what they are booing at. I know all that - I agree about Ade, agree about the defence, agree about the lack of holding midfielder, agree about the transfers. But I don't agree with booing.

Arsene, Arsenal and the players have all made mistakes.

Still no reason to boo.

[QuartzGooner]

However, this isn't a question of noise. Let's get it right, Arsene isn't moaning about lack of noise. He is questioning the negativity.

I agree Stevie, and before I continue... I'm not one of the boo boys, but I understand why they do it, as I explain below....

Simply, it's frustration, and I think Wenger is as guilty as anyone for creating this negative atmosphere, as it's his team.. and they're his players...

- Like it or not, the fans will never warm to Ade after his antics over the summer, so if Wenger keeps playing him, then groans will follow. Simple.

- We have the worst defensive lineup since before Graham took over in the 1980's. I really believe that. The fans have been brought up on top quality defending by the likes of Adams, Bould, Keown, O'Leary, etc. and now we have 2 clowns at centre half, with Denilson and Cesc shielding the back 4... which quite frankly, for a club of our ambition, is a joke!

- we're ridiculously inconsistent. This season, our players have proved one thing... they're world class as long as they're in the mood and the opposition give us time and space. However, the attitude we showed against Fulham, Hull, and the lack of anything up at Sunderland, sums this squad up. Again... for the fans, it's frustrating.

- Then we have the whole finacncial issue. The inability to keep hold of Hleb and Flamini, as well as the false promises, and lack of action on the transfer market has left the fans underwhelmed and angry. The fact that it's now out that we still have £30m in the transfer kitty - untouched! - is obviously going to add to the frustration.

So, in a nutshell, when the boss refuses to spend the money we've made available to him, and the results aren't good enough... then suprise, suprise, the fans aren't happy.

Not rocket science, Arsene. The boo boys are just respondng to your mistakes.

Again... I give the players my full support in games so don't get pissy at me!

I'm not gonna get pissy at you, if you don't boo.

But what you're doing is explaining what they are booing at. I know all that - I agree about Ade, agree about the defence, agree about the lack of holding midfielder, agree about the transfers. But I don't agree with booing.

Arsene, Arsenal and the players have all made mistakes.

Still no reason to boo.

I will not boo our own players.

I sat through years of dull football under Graham. As bad as it gets now, we are still in dreamland compared to that era.

Song got booed at Fulham away two seasons ago. That was harsh, because he is now a worthy squad member.

[augie]

Oh, f*ck off Arsene

I, and many others, do try our best to support your "experiment" - but when I'm forking out between £40-70 for a ticket then I expect the best.. and when you keep £30m of our money in your pocket instead of improving our squad, then is it any wonder we're frustrated?

the defensive side of our game is utter shite, and our team seems to pick and choose when they fancy it... and don't have a go at the fans, when your team - made in your image! - can't raise themselves to play Hull, Fulham or Sunderland

I like you Arsene.. and I'll support the team the best I can, but don't take the piss!

And if you are so concerned about the atmosphere, then convince Hill Wood and co. to expand RedAction to the whole of the north end (upper and lower) and not just that poxy little "token" section in the corner.

PS - keep up the good work, and good luck on Sunday

Some will agree with wengers statement while others will strongly oppose it but few will hit the nail on the head as accurately as the above post from g88ner As far as I am aware AFC is yet to be declared a charity so wenger and the club should not expect fans to fork out their hard earned money just to leave it sitting in the bank while wenger and the club refuse to address the glaring team needs

While most will acknowledge that they love the game of football itself I think most of us would say that it was the buzz and the atmosphere that got the hairs standing on the back of your neck that really got us hooked way back in our history. We all know that those days are sadly no more although most of us try our best to regenerate that feeling. However I have to say that it has always irked me when players who are earning £40k per week are "excused" poor performances cos the fans support let them down These players are earning colossal amounts of money so shouldnt the motivation to succeed come from within ? Should I expect a crowd of people to come to my place of work to cheer my on so that I give my best every day ? You may well say that negativity doesnt help but try pointing that out to the person that pays your wages the next day you get a bollocking at work - I can imagine the response you would get As the people that pays the players wages I think we have a right to see more commitment, appreciation and passion than we currently see from greedybollox up front (and no I dont count kissing the badge as passion you *word censored* ) and I am just using him as an example. If the same togan *word censored* showed signs that his goals to chances ratio was improving or that his grasp of the offside rule was getting there then maybe we wouldnt hear the fans groaning for the same old shit week after week

Finally when supporters of redaction ask why they are disliked I would point to an obvious example......cashley *word censored*. When that judas *word censored* was making his first return to our club we all knew that there would be close on 60,000 fans baying for his blood thus generating one of those intimadating atmospheres that we have all read so much about . What did redaction do though ? They told fans the best way to deal with this situation was to ignore the *word censored* altogether WTF ??? If these people claim to be the voice of us fans then at that moment I decided that they were not speaking for me and it was obvious that the words they were using was coming not from the mouths of fans but from the club instead. After that I decided that I could not trust the motives and actions of people who I view to be serving two masters

[g88ner]

Still no reason to boo.

agreed. It's a horrible trend that has crept in, and sadly, it's probably here to stay