To DanielD

Post by **Chippy** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:05 pm

I'd really like to get stuck in here but not sure of the value. Any way a Jewish friend of mine who is struggling with what Israel is doing has asked me to join a facebook group that is run by Arabs and Jews who want this shit to stop. So please join up.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4292817417

BTW look at the first youtube that is about Arsenal running a multi cultural footy tournament.

Post by **QuartzGooner** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:51 pm

digger wrote:Put it this way.... if Palestine was a US ally, this would be called Genocide.

DIGGER.

Being a political minded man on this subject..I ask you to clarify..without this descending into insult and stuff that could get the site brought down etc.

But honestly Digger...Genocide is not at all what is going on, or has ever gone on, in Gaza.

It is a war, and innocents sadly die in war.

But there is not an organised effort to kill as many Palestinian civilians as possible or to kill all of them.

In Rwanda there were 800,000 killed in a month by militias armed with machetes and sticks.

So far in Gaza between 700 - 800 have been killed in two weeks by a modern army armed with highly explosive weaponry.

If it was genocide that the IDF wanted to do, those figures would be nothing like that.

It is IDF vs Hamas...it is not a repeat of The Turks v Armenians, Nazis vs Jews/Gypsys, or Rwanda.

Not remotely like it.

Lethal · Post by **Lethal** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:57 pm

Can we all just agree to blame eboue please.

Post by **Chippy** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:33 am

Quartz, have you not sensed that there are a lot of people who have bitten their tongues on this subject. It may not be genocide but it is mass murder and it is a war crime.

Lethal · Post by **Lethal** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:36 am

you are now all eboue-threatened

calm it people

Post by **QuartzGooner** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:36 am

Chippy wrote:Quartz, have you not sensed that there are a lot of people who have bitten their tongues on this subject. It may not be genocide but it is mass murder and it is a war crime.

We disagree on those points Chippy.

In all honesty, for me I have bitten my tongue on this compared to how I can go on.

But why should Digger be allowed to express his opinion, one which I consider incorrect, and me not be allowed to express mine?

Is there a different rule for Digger than for me?

Lethal · Post by **Lethal** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:42 am

oo prince harry is in trouble

MM99 · Post by **MM99** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:42 am

what digger was trying to say was that there appears to be a different rule for those who are on side with the americans and another for those who arent. he wasnt actually saying it was genocide. he was just making the point that if it had happened to an ally of america it would be portrayed that way in the media.

enjibenji · Post by **enjibenji** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:48 am

Mike graham on talk sport made a very good point the other night.Why do the us and Britain feel that they should be going out keep peace. Its nothing to fucking to with them...

Post by **QuartzGooner** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:53 am

MM99 wrote:what digger was trying to say was that there appears to be a different rule for those who are on side with the americans and another for those who arent. he wasnt actually saying it was genocide. he was just making the point that if it had happened to an ally of america it would be portrayed that way in the media.

Thing is, this whole comment shows just how far apart we are on this subject.

I see it reported in the media as a "massacre" and "Israeli aggression" etc, with a fairly strong anti Israel bias in the media. I consider the media reporting to be better than it has in the past on the Middle East, but still showing an anti Israel bias.

I believe the Israeli military action to be a justified response to Hamas aggression.

Not a nice business at all, and one in which innocents have died, and of course living conditions in Gaza during this conflict are very hard.

Yet it is a war, one in which I am on one side of the conflict, as opposed to many on this website who are observers of the conflict.

Therefore I take a certain stance, and defend my position, fully aware that it is not the trendy thing to do in "liberal" Western Europe.

Anyway, I leave things up to the mods.

The thread started in good faith and for reasons of concern for DanielD's welfare.

If the mods feel this thread has subsequently gone too far off course, then lock it.

Post by **Chippy** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:55 am

Olgit started this thread out of concern for DD and his family and asked for it not to be political. DD then says things like, Israel is prepared unlike the last time, we had no choice, and lets bring peace to the south. All relatively innocuous unless you realise that this is a euphemism for killing hundreds of innocent people.

enjibenji · Post by **enjibenji** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:58 am

QuartzGooner wrote:
MM99 wrote:what digger was trying to say was that there appears to be a different rule for those who are on side with the americans and another for those who arent. he wasnt actually saying it was genocide. he was just making the point that if it had happened to an ally of america it would be portrayed that way in the media.
Thing is, this whole comment shows just how far apart we are on this subject.

I see it reported in the media as a "massacre" and "Israeli aggression" etc, with a fairly strong anti Israel bias in the media. I consider the media reporting to be better than it has in the past on the Middle East, but still showing an anti Israel bias.

I believe the Israeli military action to be a justified response to Hamas aggression.

Not a nice business at all, and one in which innocents have died, and of course living conditions in Gaza during this conflict are very hard.

Yet it is a war, one in which I am on one side of the conflict, as opposed to many on this website who are observers of the conflict.

Therefore I take a certain stance, and defend my position, fully aware that it is not the trendy thing to do in "liberal" Western Europe.

Use could have a debate all day on who is right and wrong here but the fact is this thread is going to get very nasty and political at some stage

Post by **QuartzGooner** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:00 am

Chippy wrote:Olgit started this thread out of concern for DD and his family and asked for it not to be political. DD then says things like, Israel is prepared unlike the last time, we had no choice, and lets bring peace to the south. All relatively innocuous unless you realise that this is a euphemism for killing hundreds of innocent people.

Chippy.

I do not believe hundreds of innocent people have been killed in Gaza.

There have of course been civilian casualties on both sides, but a lot of those "civilians" in Gaza are Hamas fighters, who do not wear regular military uniform.

MM99 · Post by **MM99** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:01 am

QuartzGooner wrote:
MM99 wrote:what digger was trying to say was that there appears to be a different rule for those who are on side with the americans and another for those who arent. he wasnt actually saying it was genocide. he was just making the point that if it had happened to an ally of america it would be portrayed that way in the media.
Thing is, this whole comment shows just how far apart we are on this subject.

I see it reported in the media as a "massacre" and "Israeli aggression" etc, with a fairly strong anti Israel bias in the media. I consider the media reporting to be better than it has in the past on the Middle East, but still showing an anti Israel bias.

I believe the Israeli military action to be a justified response to Hamas aggression.

Not a nice business at all, and one in which innocents have died, and of course living conditions in Gaza during this conflict are very hard.

Yet it is a war, one in which I am on one side of the conflict, as opposed to many on this website who are observers of the conflict.

Therefore I take a certain stance, and defend my position, fully aware that it is not the trendy thing to do in "liberal" Western Europe.

Anyway, I leave things up to the mods.

The thread started in good faith and for reasons of concern for DanielD's welfare.

If the mods feel this thread has subsequently gone too far off course, then lock it.

although im no expert by any means on the subject, theres certain protocol when in a war, ones that israel seems to ignore and unleash its full force on an army miniscule compared to its own, with no apparent compassion for the innocent people who die as a result of their over the top attacks.

MM99 · Post by **MM99** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:01 am

double post.