"Judge me in May".....OK Arsene, here goes

[Red Carpet]

Fair enough we were outplayed in all three semi games but do you not think the fact we go there in the first place says something about the side?

It's funny a lot of fans moan about the leadership of our club but I dread to think what kind of a state we would be in as a club if the directors were as fickle and short sighted as some of the posters on here!

I have make a point, not just to you Stokey, but everyone else thinking along similar lines.

We did not get to two semi finals this year because of the players we have in the current team. I would rigorously argue we managed it in spite of the current squad. Getting as far as we did was a massive over achievement and has been pointed out came on the back of unconvincing performances against some very mediocre teams.

To all else pointing to business models and financial constraints, that can only go so far. Last season we really put in a challenge on a few fronts. We had the makings of a good squad. That our manager chose to allow key players in that squad to leave and promoted younger less able players is not down to any business model. It is down to bad management and poor judgement in the ability of the players the manager has now come to rely on.

To let Flamini leave and not match the AC wage offer whilst hiking the weekly income of Adebayor to an undeserved and frankly unimaginable level is scandalous bordering on insanity.

I'm not saying I want Wenger out, I believe even on a similar financial footing to Man U and Chelsea it would still be a fucking achievement to win the league these days.

I am saying however he has fucked up royally this year. We could have competed even with our financial position if he had built on last year and not made that squad weaker.

You have made some valid points there. I said in an earlier post that Wenger had made mistakes, a few of which you mention.
My main point is this though.
There is a difference is between what we COULD have achieved and what we EXPECT to achieve.
For me, in our current situation, the expectations are far to high.
Only ONE team can win the title
Only ONE team can win the CL

Therefore three of Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal will be disappointed come May.
Throw in Barca, Bayern Munich, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juve and Real Madrid for the CL.

We want to do well .. we shouldn't expect it. Especially now.

[GunnerDude]

Am sure you all will agree that in any buisness you have to build on success, go forward and not backwards. People say Wenger has spoilt us with good footie thats is true but that also doesn't mean he hasn't failed in some parts.

Let me elaborate on what I mean by "build on success"

After our double win in 01-02 Arsene only signed Gilberto
After the success in the 03-04 unbeaten run Arsene signed Robin, Reyes(in january), Flamini, Eboue(in january) Almunia.

and little by little members of the unbeaten side left, living behind inexperienced youth that have shown us their worth in recent weeks.

Now does that look anything close to building on your success? No! Had we built on that side with proven youth like Reyes(I thought he wasn't a bad player and he was a spanish international after spending 1year with us) we may have retained our dominance.

The unbeaten side was a side that was packed with players at their peak ... that side didn't have a long future. Anyway, I don't think anything was going to stop Abramovich when he turned up at Chelsea. He would have just had to spend a few more quid.

We can't blame Roman for everything, did we not agree a fee for Ribery and fail to pay his wages but yet we are paying Ade for nothing and the same applies to Cech and not to mention the fact that we offered Sporting half what Utd offered for Cristiano yet we can afford to pay £10.5mill for Reyes and £12mill for Theo.
We swoped members of our unbeaten side for players like Senderous, Hoyte, Larsson, Owusu-Abeyie, Aliadiere, Flamini WHERE ARE THEY NOW? Then came the useless Eboue & Ade then more youth Diaby, Johan D, Song and more Theo, Nick, Denilson, now Gibbs before you now it Jack Wilshere will start games next season.

Where does it end this youth in youth team!

[StokeyGooner]

I agree with the rest of your post Number 5 but i'm not sure how you can seriously suggest we got to two semi finals in spite of the players.

I know to look at the teams we played in both cup competitions would suggest we have had an "easy" run, and that we haven't always been convincing in those games however to diminish the achievement of the team in getting that far is not right. Arsenal have produced big results in the Champions League (5-2 in Istanbul, 4-0 against Porto, how we didn't go to Rome with more of an advantage after the first leg i'll never know) and a cliche it might be but you can only beat the teams put in front of you.

I could accept that had we got to just one semi final we may have been very fortunate, but two?

[wlchuccc]

Am sure you all will agree that in any buisness you have to build on success, go forward and not backwards. People say Wenger has spoilt us with good footie thats is true but that also doesn't mean he hasn't failed in some parts.

Let me elaborate on what I mean by "build on success"

After our double win in 01-02 Arsene only signed Gilberto
After the success in the 03-04 unbeaten run Arsene signed Robin, Reyes(in january), Flamini, Eboue(in january) Almunia.

and little by little members of the unbeaten side left, living behind inexperienced youth that have shown us their worth in recent weeks.

Now does that look anything close to building on your success? No! Had we built on that side with proven youth like Reyes(I thought he wasn't a bad player and he was a spanish international after spending 1year with us) we may have retained our dominance.

The unbeaten side was a side that was packed with players at their peak ... that side didn't have a long future. Anyway, I don't think anything was going to stop Abramovich when he turned up at Chelsea. He would have just had to spend a few more quid.

We can't blame Roman for everything, did we not agree a fee for Ribery and fail to pay his wages but yet we are paying Ade for nothing and the same applies to Cech and not to mention the fact that we offered Sporting half what Utd offered for Cristiano yet we can afford to pay £10.5mill for Reyes and £12mill for Theo.
We swoped members of our unbeaten side for players like Senderous, Hoyte, Larsson, Owusu-Abeyie, Aliadiere, Flamini WHERE ARE THEY NOW? Then came the useless Eboue & Ade then more youth Diaby, Johan D, Song and more Theo, Nick, Denilson, now Gibbs before you now it Jack Wilshere will start games next season.

Where does it end this youth in youth team!

That's exactly my point in previous post. You need to pay copyright for that

[GunnerDude]

I agree with the rest of your post Number 5 but i'm not sure how you can seriously suggest we got to two semi finals in spite of the players.

I know to look at the teams we played in both cup competitions would suggest we have had an "easy" run, and that we haven't always been convincing in those games however to diminish the achievement of the team in getting that far is not right. Arsenal have produced big results in the Champions League (5-2 in Istanbul, 4-0 against Porto, how we didn't go to Rome with more of an advantage after the first leg i'll never know) and a cliche it might be but you can only beat the teams put in front of you.
I could accept that had we got to just one semi final we may have been very fortunate, but two?

Had we come up against Barca instead of Roma would we have made it to the semis? the same applies to the fa cup

[wlchuccc]

I agree with the rest of your post Number 5 but i'm not sure how you can seriously suggest we got to two semi finals in spite of the players.

I know to look at the teams we played in both cup competitions would suggest we have had an "easy" run, and that we haven't always been convincing in those games however to diminish the achievement of the team in getting that far is not right. Arsenal have produced big results in the Champions League (5-2 in Istanbul, 4-0 against Porto, how we didn't go to Rome with more of an advantage after the first leg i'll never know) and a cliche it might be but you can only beat the teams put in front of you.
I could accept that had we got to just one semi final we may have been very fortunate, but two?

Had we come up against Barca instead of Roma would we have made it to the semis? the same applies to the fa cup

Why not? Who would believe that Bacar would score a goal last night after a player was sent off Though I have to admit that I also believe that we will be out if we play Bacar in earlier round

[gooner.ed]

GoonerEd

this should be in the next gooner

it might have dated a bit by then - it's out in august. shall i stick it on the website?

[Red Carpet]

Am sure you all will agree that in any buisness you have to build on success, go forward and not backwards. People say Wenger has spoilt us with good footie thats is true but that also doesn't mean he hasn't failed in some parts.

Let me elaborate on what I mean by "build on success"

After our double win in 01-02 Arsene only signed Gilberto
After the success in the 03-04 unbeaten run Arsene signed Robin, Reyes(in january), Flamini, Eboue(in january) Almunia.

and little by little members of the unbeaten side left, living behind inexperienced youth that have shown us their worth in recent weeks.

Now does that look anything close to building on your success? No! Had we built on that side with proven youth like Reyes(I thought he wasn't a bad player and he was a spanish international after spending 1year with us) we may have retained our dominance.

The unbeaten side was a side that was packed with players at their peak ... that side didn't have a long future. Anyway, I don't think anything was going to stop Abramovich when he turned up at Chelsea. He would have just had to spend a few more quid.

We can't blame Roman for everything, did we not agree a fee for Ribery and fail to pay his wages but yet we are paying Ade for nothing and the same applies to Cech and not to mention the fact that we offered Sporting half what Utd offered for Cristiano yet we can afford to pay £10.5mill for Reyes and £12mill for Theo.
We swoped members of our unbeaten side for players like Senderous, Hoyte, Larsson, Owusu-Abeyie, Aliadiere, Flamini WHERE ARE THEY NOW? Then came the useless Eboue & Ade then more youth Diaby, Johan D, Song and more Theo, Nick, Denilson, now Gibbs before you now it Jack Wilshere will start games next season.

Where does it end this youth in youth team!

No, maybe you can't blame Roman for everything, but he clearly upped the ante and started a culture of excessive spending that was not linked to the clubs balance sheet. That, and our stadium move have in the short term meant Wenger had to try and compete on a shoestring. More power to him for having done that.
He is far from perfect as I have already pointed out but without the ability to compete financially he continues to do a good job.
Certainly good enough that he gets slagged off for getting us CLOSE to winning things and therefore keeping expectations unrealistically high.

[GunnerDude]

Am sure you all will agree that in any buisness you have to build on success, go forward and not backwards. People say Wenger has spoilt us with good footie thats is true but that also doesn't mean he hasn't failed in some parts.

Let me elaborate on what I mean by "build on success"

After our double win in 01-02 Arsene only signed Gilberto
After the success in the 03-04 unbeaten run Arsene signed Robin, Reyes(in january), Flamini, Eboue(in january) Almunia.

and little by little members of the unbeaten side left, living behind inexperienced youth that have shown us their worth in recent weeks.

Now does that look anything close to building on your success? No! Had we built on that side with proven youth like Reyes(I thought he wasn't a bad player and he was a spanish international after spending 1year with us) we may have retained our dominance.

It's Reyes who wanted to leave. I don't think he played a great role in our league games that season. Anyway I don't think he is that good and I don't really like him

Yes he wanted to live but am sure if Fergie did what Ronaldo wanted he would be at Madrid by now. Fact is Reyes was getting better every year he was with us, he assisted 20goals in his 2full seasons and was the most fouled player in the prem and CL 06 and am sure Thierry enjoyed scoring some freekicks as a result.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/st ... 36&cc=5739

plus I enjoyed his goals against the Chavs and he nutmegs Gary Neville 2ice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MyDIZHG ... re=related

[Boomer]

Am sure you all will agree that in any buisness you have to build on success, go forward and not backwards. People say Wenger has spoilt us with good footie thats is true but that also doesn't mean he hasn't failed in some parts.

Let me elaborate on what I mean by "build on success"

After our double win in 01-02 Arsene only signed Gilberto
After the success in the 03-04 unbeaten run Arsene signed Robin, Reyes(in january), Flamini, Eboue(in january) Almunia.

and little by little members of the unbeaten side left, living behind inexperienced youth that have shown us their worth in recent weeks.

Now does that look anything close to building on your success? No! Had we built on that side with proven youth like Reyes(I thought he wasn't a bad player and he was a spanish international after spending 1year with us) we may have retained our dominance.

The unbeaten side was a side that was packed with players at their peak ... that side didn't have a long future. Anyway, I don't think anything was going to stop Abramovich when he turned up at Chelsea. He would have just had to spend a few more quid.

We can't blame Roman for everything, did we not agree a fee for Ribery and fail to pay his wages but yet we are paying Ade for nothing and the same applies to Cech and not to mention the fact that we offered Sporting half what Utd offered for Cristiano yet we can afford to pay £10.5mill for Reyes and £12mill for Theo.
We swoped members of our unbeaten side for players like Senderous, Hoyte, Larsson, Owusu-Abeyie, Aliadiere, Flamini WHERE ARE THEY NOW? Then came the useless Eboue & Ade then more youth Diaby, Johan D, Song and more Theo, Nick, Denilson, now Gibbs before you now it Jack Wilshere will start games next season.

Where does it end this youth in youth team!

No, maybe you can't blame Roman for everything, but he clearly upped the ante and started a culture of excessive spending that was not linked to the clubs balance sheet. That, and our stadium move have in the short term meant Wenger had to try and compete on a shoestring. More power to him for having done that.
He is far from perfect as I have already pointed out but without the ability to compete financially he continues to do a good job.
Certainly good enough that he gets slagged off for getting us CLOSE to winning things and therefore keeping expectations unrealistically high.

Mate it's like arguing to a brick wall sometimes. There's little money, hence why AA23 deal is installments. For those who want Wenger to leave, I'm not asking for names, but I doubt there's anyone in the world who could manage and build a club on a shoe string that is world class for Arsenal.

In a few year the world will be our oyster in terms of finances.

[wlchuccc]

Am sure you all will agree that in any buisness you have to build on success, go forward and not backwards. People say Wenger has spoilt us with good footie thats is true but that also doesn't mean he hasn't failed in some parts.

Let me elaborate on what I mean by "build on success"

After our double win in 01-02 Arsene only signed Gilberto
After the success in the 03-04 unbeaten run Arsene signed Robin, Reyes(in january), Flamini, Eboue(in january) Almunia.

and little by little members of the unbeaten side left, living behind inexperienced youth that have shown us their worth in recent weeks.

Now does that look anything close to building on your success? No! Had we built on that side with proven youth like Reyes(I thought he wasn't a bad player and he was a spanish international after spending 1year with us) we may have retained our dominance.

It's Reyes who wanted to leave. I don't think he played a great role in our league games that season. Anyway I don't think he is that good and I don't really like him

Yes he wanted to live but am sure if Fergie did what Ronaldo wanted he would be at Madrid by now. Fact is Reyes was getting better every year he was with us, he assisted 20goals in his 2full seasons and was the most fouled player in the prem and CL 06 and am sure Thierry enjoyed scoring some freekicks as a result.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/st ... 36&cc=5739

plus I enjoyed his goals against the Chavs and he nutmegs Gary Neville 2ice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MyDIZHG ... re=related

Oh well, for Reyes case, you got your point, can't argue. But I just don't like him.
But for diver *word censored*'s case, I think it's different. I am sure if he wants to go, he should have gone.....

[augie]

The point that seems to be forgotten by those pointing to our cup semi final appearances as a reason for confidence is that it totally ignores the bread and butter of our season.....the league. In this seasons league we have been humbled by such footballing giants as stoke, hull, an almost relegated boro and fulham to name just a few It is all very well saying that we are good enough until we meet the top sides but those named are hardly the cream of football are they and yet they turned us over. I know that we have never won the european cup/champs league but personally I would pass on that every day of the week to win the league again and then retain it the next season (which we aint done since the '30s ) That this squad have struggled so badly in the league cannot be masked by two semi final appearances where we faced nobody of note along the way - we are miles away from where we should be

I think what you will find is that most supporters would get behind wenger again if they felt that he was actually going to use this next transfer window to rectify our weaknesses - the problem is however is that most of us know that will never happen even if the new ceo put a gun to his head. There is no doubt that wenger should get an award for his prudence and financial management but it is on the pitch that matters and we will not compete again as long as his current transfer policies exist

[Red Carpet]

The point that seems to be forgotten by those pointing to our cup semi final appearances as a reason for confidence is that it totally ignores the bread and butter of our season.....the league. In this seasons league we have been humbled by such footballing giants as stoke, hull, an almost relegated boro and fulham to name just a few It is all very well saying that we are good enough until we meet the top sides but those named are hardly the cream of football are they and yet they turned us over. I know that we have never won the european cup/champs league but personally I would pass on that every day of the week to win the league again and then retain it the next season (which we aint done since the '30s ) That this squad have struggled so badly in the league cannot be masked by two semi final appearances where we faced nobody of note along the way - we are miles away from where we should be

I think what you will find is that most supporters would get behind wenger again if they felt that he was actually going to use this next transfer window to rectify our weaknesses - the problem is however is that most of us know that will never happen even if the new ceo put a gun to his head. There is no doubt that wenger should get an award for his prudence and financial management but it is on the pitch that matters and we will not compete again as long as his current transfer policies exist

I think your last sentence sums up where I think the crux of this issue lies. Without the financial prudence and management that Wenger has expertly shown, the on field activities would be an irrelevant sideshow should a club still exist at all.
You just cannot ignore the clubs financial situation because it doesn't fit in with your desire for silverware.
Yes its on the pitch that matters to us but you need a football club to start with. There are many badly run clubs out there that have paid a heavy price for their short sighted attitude.

[GunnerDude]

Mate it's like arguing to a brick wall sometimes. There's little money, hence why AA23 deal is installments. For those who want Wenger to leave, I'm not asking for names, but I doubt there's anyone in the world who could manage and build a club on a shoe string that is world class for Arsenal.

In a few year the world will be our oyster in terms of finances.

I find that hard to believe seen as members of the board come out with statements like we have £30mill for one player if Arsene wants.
Below you will find 4 different articules but which one are us fans ment to believe

26th of Aug 08 a whole month before the transfer window ended http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -cash.html

29th Aug 08 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 630035.ece

19th Dec 08 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ishes.html

and not long after 2 Jan 09 http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/a ... page_id=43

So what are we ment to believe, Arsene has money but doesn't want to spend or Arsene has no money and Fiszman is a lieing scum?

Does the AA transfer tell us that we dont have money or our chief exec Ivan took advantage of the fact that Arshavin wanted to live and we waited until the last min for Zenit to see reason (which is they would have got nothing for him come the end of the russian season).

[wlchuccc]

Mate it's like arguing to a brick wall sometimes. There's little money, hence why AA23 deal is installments. For those who want Wenger to leave, I'm not asking for names, but I doubt there's anyone in the world who could manage and build a club on a shoe string that is world class for Arsenal.

In a few year the world will be our oyster in terms of finances.

I find that hard to believe seen as members of the board come out with statements like we have £30mill for one player if Arsene wants.
Below you will find 4 different articules but which one are us fans ment to believe

26th of Aug 08 a whole month before the transfer window ended http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -cash.html

29th Aug 08 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 630035.ece

19th Dec 08 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ishes.html

and not long after 2 Jan 09 http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/a ... page_id=43

So what are we ment to believe, Arsene has money but doesn't want to spend or Arsene has no money and Fiszman is a lieing scum?

Does the AA transfer tell us that we dont have money or our chief exec Ivan took advantage of the fact that Arshavin wanted to live and we waited until the last min for Zenit to see reason (which is they would have got nothing for him come the end of the russian season).

Correct me if I am wrong. I think we paid Arshavin's money by installments. I tend to believe that we don't have the money to spend TBH. But what I want is that AW should come out and say something. Don't just give the same answers in every interview!!