"Liverpool could face points loss"

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I Hate Hleb
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Post by I Hate Hleb »

QuartzGooner wrote:
I Hate Hleb wrote:It might well be a good idea Quartz but isn't the 'raison detre' of a sporting club to compete on the 'sporting field'? :? And shouldn't we be doing all we can to make sure we win one of those four trophies? :roll: :banghead:


Of course reason for the club is to win, but realistic attitude says we cannot compete pound for pound with Man City and Chelsea for the moment.
Perhaps in one competition, but not in all four...
Sorry but that's the self-fulfilling - and ultimately defeatist - prophecy I was talking about in my initial post!! :banghead: You have even said it yourself that we're probably just a defensive coach, a good keeper, another Centre Back and DM away from competing properly and considerably improving our chances of winning trophies. And we're not talking £30 and £40million pound players at that.

Yet the cash - or is it the will - to make the acquisition of these 'missing parts of the jig-saw' to complete the enigma that is Arsene's modern day Arsenal which will ultimately be successful, is sadly lacking. I'm talking about in the here and now, not some time in the future with all the club's hopes resting on UEFA's Financial Regulations being effective. And be honest, how many of us really expect that to happen and for the proposed 'financially level playing field' to live up to the hype ?

The fact that not only are the powers that be happy with that situation, but are actively planning for more years of sustaining such a scenario, leaves me not feeling more confidence, but increasing more bemused. :? :cry:

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

QuartzGooner wrote: Of course reason for the club is to win, but realistic attitude says we cannot compete pound for pound with Man City and Chelsea for the moment.Perhaps in one competition, but not in all four.
Of course? I guess you mean the Carling Cup bvecause we certainly won't comepete in the Premiership of Champions League at this point, I'm afraid with this team.
QuartzGooner wrote: So why not raise revenue through commercial areas, which will in turn help the team?
I've never seen anyone say we shouldn't. I've simply seen people say we shouldn't psend more marketing the brand than on the football team. Besides sine the barnd ultimately is the football team, if the team declines the brand declines or as is built more slowly and less profitably.

QuartzGooner wrote:The above commercial expansion makes us better placed to earn from technology expansion as century progresses i.e. global use of Arsenal smartphone apps, internet access, pay per view revenues from China etc.
But again the success of that comes dowmto the success of the football team unless the brand is marketed completely seperately from the football club and football team and the the companies become completely sereate and irrelevant to one another other than in the holding company;s accounts. Is that really what we want let alone what we need?
QuartzGooner wrote:Why should it be "cool" for tourists to buy an NY cap?
Could it not be "cool" for tourists to London to wear an Arsenal cap?
Maybe because if you wear an NY cap in London everyone knows you travelled to New York, whereas an Arsenal cap in New york will only tell Gooners football supporters or people from England that you were in London. That simple - to most Americans its no different from a West Ham or Chelsea or even - God Forgive me - a s***s cap..

Americans know London, so a cap that says London on it will always be first-choice if you bought it simply so people will know you have been in London.

Now we all know between us there is only ONE team in London, but Americnas who aren;'t football supporters have no idea how or why to distinguish form all those other so-called teams, sothe next marketing feature to them would be style, how the cap looks, this why you have all the red and gree and orange or whatever Yankee caps around now instead of the traditional very dark navy blue and white Yankee Cap.

So we have to upgrade the team to upgrade the brand and seperate for the uninitiated from the rest of the so-called teams.

QuartzGooner wrote:The club is continually promoting links with American sports and music figures, spreading the word that the stadium is THE place to visit when in London, that Arsenal are the British team to follow. Regular articles in the club magazine show this: Spike Lee, Jay Z, Luol Deng, LeBron James etc have all been interviewed and / or visited the stadium.
The problem is that by and large we're not seeing or hearing or reading that here. You can't walk into every bookstore and buy pur offical magazine here. Major cities you can get it but even there not all the main booksellers in this day offer it. You can ManU's rag anywhere even small suburbs. Every chain of booksellers carries it. Arsenal TV isn't seen here anymore or hasn't been recently, and none of these performers wears our colors on stage here wth any regularity if at all - not that I have seen.

It''s great that they are doing this and Gooners here love reading about it in our magazine, but that's where the marketing from that ends. Arsenal need to make it so more than Gooners know these people love our club and enjoy supporting us and watching us play or what good is it in terms of opening and expanding markets and profits? It's just ass-backwards marketing

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

QuartzGooner wrote:There was no one time to break the American market.
The above 100% proof that Quartz simply cannot objectively judge the Board on any issue and cannot honestly discuss them at any point when the facts will not support his argument.

Only a complete idiot could come to that conclusion honestly. Someone incapable of understanding the basics of marketing and public relations and their role in building a business and or brand. And Quartz is neither an idiot nor is he incapable of understanding these basic concepts. His problem has never been lack of intelligance. Lack of objectivity and at times honesty has been and is.

The simple truth is that at no other time was Arsenal as marketablle in the U.S. as it was at the end of the 2004 season. There is no debate here. Ask anyone in the business of marketing.

- had a a team who just completed a season of historical and record-breaking successand had been very successful for several years

-had at eam that played far and away the most exciting and successful style of football on the planet among top-level clubs

-had several of the best and most skilled and entertaining footballers on earth in several positions


-had several players who had achieved at least some celebrity status off-the-pitch in America and and had some marketing value here alreadty as well

- had several other market-friendly players faces and personalities in the side after them

-had an absolutely market-friendly manager who at that time was universally judged to be one the great managers in club football and great coaches in all sport and a uniquely interesting character as well.

-had several TV markets to exploit, both network and cable, both entertainment and sports-oriented and both Fox Soccer Channel and Gol TV were established soccer-specific networks to utilize with growing viewer bases

-had a terrific growing and loyal US supporter base to build upon

The simple truth is you cannot judge the Board or its actions honestly and objectively. You are a knee-jerk defender of any and all decisons it takes and the philosophy behingd them.

You may protest otherwise but I cannot find one example of you saying the the Board is or was wrong on any matter as yet to any other forum member let alone myself, and if you have the percentage of times would have to be below one percent of the times you passed and judgment upon them or their policies which strikes me as hardly consistent with reality.

And this instictive loyalty to them and defence of their actions with no real regard to the facts in each instance simply makes it impossible to view you as objective or credible at this point on these matters so there is no need for us to debate all this any further which I am sure please many many people here.

I am genuinely sorry if you take offence, but I think it is similarly offensive to pass off your obvious lack of objectivity as anything but what it is, which is a shame as you obviously do love Arsenal, and you obviously are quite intelligent period and even on these matters. But you let your emotions cloud your judgment too often and too easily and it only contributes to the problem rather than any solution.

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Ted B
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Post by Ted B »

Image

:lol:

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

Karel wrote:Image

:lol:
A "Lord of the Dance" Reunion Tour?
Last edited by USMartin on Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LyusN1
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Post by LyusN1 »

USMartin wrote:
Karel wrote:Image

:lol:
A "Lord of the Dance" Reunion Tour?

Looks More Like A "Lord of the Flies" Reunion
To be honest mate, I was thinking it looks more like 'Lord of the Rings'.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

LyusN1 wrote:
USMartin wrote:
Karel wrote:Image

:lol:
A "Lord of the Dance" Reunion Tour?

Looks More Like A "Lord of the Flies" Reunion
To be honest mate, I was thinking it looks more like 'Lord of the Rings'.
:lol: Nice one! Sammy does recall Smeagol just a bit and Roy looks or walks a bit like old TreeBeard :lol:

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

Karel wrote:Image

:lol:
THIS should have been posted for caption Contest

"THe open audtions for the role of Igor showed off the many different interpretations actors had of the character"

"Never take LSD while baby-sitting then read the kids Grimm's Fairy Tales"

Contest over - I WIN :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:

I also finish second

1989
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Post by 1989 »

Image

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RNTGOONER
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Post by RNTGOONER »

USMartin wrote:
Karel wrote:Image

:lol:
THIS should have been posted for caption Contest

"THe open audtions for the role of Igor showed off the many different interpretations actors had of the character"

"Never take LSD while baby-sitting then read the kids Grimm's Fairy Tales"

Contest over - I WIN :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:

I also finish second

George A. Romero's new film: Victims of the dead?

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sabastiane
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Post by sabastiane »

RNTGOONER wrote:
USMartin wrote:
Karel wrote:Image

:lol:
THIS should have been posted for caption Contest

"THe open audtions for the role of Igor showed off the many different interpretations actors had of the character"

"Never take LSD while baby-sitting then read the kids Grimm's Fairy Tales"

Contest over - I WIN :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:

I also finish second

George A. Romero's new film: Victims of the dead?
When did Gary Busey and the penguin join the scousers?

Image

Image

MM99
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Post by MM99 »

USMartin wrote:
MM99 wrote:
USMartin wrote:It's all well and good to take the piss right now but for me watching what happens at United and Liverpool should only serve as a warning to all of us and hopefully to the club as well about the very real perils of getting involved with debt leverage.


Arsenal would fare no better in the same cu=ircumstance no matter what, unless you consider being a in battle to escape relegation yearly better, and that;'s in the best case scenario, with no remaining stadium debt and prudent ownership.

If we still were paying down stadium debt or had less prudent ownership our plight would be worse than Liverpool's.

Sorry to spoil the burial party but I'm more concerned about what could happen at Arsenal if we were ut in the same position which could happen.

You can get as angry at me as you want but there isn't one Gooner who can't say that isn't true in this instance and be correct. Debt leverage would kill us as surely as anyone else it can kill.
And? This is such a stupid post where you say a lot of things without actually saying anything meaningful.
Well done, you have outlined that debt leverage can be bad. I think we all alreayd knew that. We didn't require another essay to tell us so.
So we should be aware of debt leverage buy outs shall we? The same could be said of any of the other 19 clubs in the premiership so what is your point? Anyone could now come in and buy out a club on debt leverage and screw the whole club up. Could be done to Wolves, could be done to us. Not sure what your point is as we already know this. Ultimately your post is a bit like saying "Oh my god people cancer is bad! We could all die if either of us gets it! We must all be careful of cancer!"
Yes well done martin, we already know that.
No apparently you aren't because you'd rather pretend it can't happen here. That is clearly what you are suggesting.
I stopped reading the rest of your post at this. Another stupid post by you because:

1. I did NOT say that it can't happen here

2. I actually said the opposite when i said "Could be done to Wolves, could be done to us"

3. Therefore i am not pretending it can't happen here as evident in point (2) above.

4. That is not what i am "clearly suggesting".

5. Please take the time to read posts properly in the future

Jumpers For Goalposts
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Post by Jumpers For Goalposts »

1989 wrote:Image
SO DO ULRIKA JONSSON'S KIDS . . . . . . . . . . :lol: :lol:

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g88ner
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Post by g88ner »

MM99 wrote:
USMartin wrote:
MM99 wrote:
USMartin wrote:It's all well and good to take the piss right now but for me watching what happens at United and Liverpool should only serve as a warning to all of us and hopefully to the club as well about the very real perils of getting involved with debt leverage.


Arsenal would fare no better in the same cu=ircumstance no matter what, unless you consider being a in battle to escape relegation yearly better, and that;'s in the best case scenario, with no remaining stadium debt and prudent ownership.

If we still were paying down stadium debt or had less prudent ownership our plight would be worse than Liverpool's.

Sorry to spoil the burial party but I'm more concerned about what could happen at Arsenal if we were ut in the same position which could happen.

You can get as angry at me as you want but there isn't one Gooner who can't say that isn't true in this instance and be correct. Debt leverage would kill us as surely as anyone else it can kill.
And? This is such a stupid post where you say a lot of things without actually saying anything meaningful.
Well done, you have outlined that debt leverage can be bad. I think we all alreayd knew that. We didn't require another essay to tell us so.
So we should be aware of debt leverage buy outs shall we? The same could be said of any of the other 19 clubs in the premiership so what is your point? Anyone could now come in and buy out a club on debt leverage and screw the whole club up. Could be done to Wolves, could be done to us. Not sure what your point is as we already know this. Ultimately your post is a bit like saying "Oh my god people cancer is bad! We could all die if either of us gets it! We must all be careful of cancer!"
Yes well done martin, we already know that.
No apparently you aren't because you'd rather pretend it can't happen here. That is clearly what you are suggesting.
I stopped reading the rest of your post at this. Another stupid post by you because:

1. I did NOT say that it can't happen here

2. I actually said the opposite when i said "Could be done to Wolves, could be done to us"

3. Therefore i am not pretending it can't happen here as evident in point (2) above.

4. That is not what i am "clearly suggesting".

5. Please take the time to read posts properly in the future
Have to agree with MM99 on this.

Martin, your reply to MM99's post is bizarre to say the least! - are you even sure you read his whole post? because your accusation towards him appears to be based on something he didn't actually say, and a stance you seem to have made up?! :oops: :?

As you know, I've accused you of putting words in people's mouths before, and this seems to be another classic example.... :? and it's just an observation, but you often accuse the board (and Quartz) of lying and misleading people, and I find it a little ironic that that's something you appear to do quite well yourself! :oops: :lol:

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marcengels
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Post by marcengels »

Don't start on USMartin g88ner...we all saw what happened when you laid into ****'y...and now he's gone...

:shock: :lol:

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