It has to be said that Wenger had the best defence when he joined Arsenal. Now he saw how Adams and co did it and saw that it brought success but down the line he decided that defending was not important.
I think Arsenal were very lucky that he signed Campbell and Lehmann because after those 2 he lost it.
If you look at defenders signed by Wenger its unreal.
Stepanovs, Grimandi, Silvestre, Squallichi, Koscielny, Djourou etc etc etc
Thing is he makes the same mistake over and over and over again.
He also had the chance to bring in Tony Adams or Keown as a coach but decided not to take that option.
Madness is to kind to him
Zonal Marking ?
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Eboue-Why?
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worthing_gooner
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Absolutely. Arshavin was with him on the edge of the box but as soon as the cross comes in, everyone is ball watching, the guy runs off Arshavin towards the penalty spot, Arshavin lets him go as he's running out of his zone, and the guy has a free header from about 10 yards out.Eboue-Why? wrote:Last night was a perfect example of why this is a shit system. 10 players stood still watching a man have a free run at a header
You have to be really in tune with your defensive partners to play a zonal defensive system. I'm against it 100%.
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Eboue-Why?
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I just don't get it. 40 years ago when I started playing footie I was told to mark someone and stick with them. It worked for approx 35 years so why did clubs want to reinvent the bloody wheel?worthing_gooner wrote:Absolutely. Arshavin was with him on the edge of the box but as soon as the cross comes in, everyone is ball watching, the guy runs off Arshavin towards the penalty spot, Arshavin lets him go as he's running out of his zone, and the guy has a free header from about 10 yards out.Eboue-Why? wrote:Last night was a perfect example of why this is a shit system. 10 players stood still watching a man have a free run at a header
You have to be really in tune with your defensive partners to play a zonal defensive system. I'm against it 100%.
Augie is spot on. Things Arsene has done to avoid actually getting in a defensive coach and spending money on serious players:
1. Changed to a 4-3-3 (but kept Diaby and Eboue to play in it)
2. Started playing two holding midfielders to protect the defence at times (but these two c**s were Denilson and Song!)
3. Played Arshavin as a lone striker
4. Played RVP as a lone number 9 despite his lack of pace.
For zonal marking to be successful you need two things.
1. A manager with a strong understanding of tactics
2. Players intelligent and good enough to deploy the system.
Arsenal have a fuckwit for manager, and are relying on braindeads like Djourou, Koscielny, Gibbs and Song to implement a system.
Just watch that Blackburn game again and it tells you so much about Djourou, Song and Koscielny. Three of our main 'defensive' players.
Only Sagna is fit enough to call himself a defender.
I am also sick of hearing the Vermaelen myth. In his 'amazing' season Arsenal were humped at home and away to the Chavs and Arsenal had their worst defensive league record IN A DECADE. As a mainstay of that defence, TV5 is massively to blame! Top Footballer, mediocre defender. He likes heading the ball but doesn't seem to enjoy the tactical side of defending (see Nou Camp performance).
Besides. Since when does a single seaosn suddenly make a player top quality? I still remember the Arsenal fans clamouring for Almunia for England!
1. Changed to a 4-3-3 (but kept Diaby and Eboue to play in it)
2. Started playing two holding midfielders to protect the defence at times (but these two c**s were Denilson and Song!)
3. Played Arshavin as a lone striker
4. Played RVP as a lone number 9 despite his lack of pace.
For zonal marking to be successful you need two things.
1. A manager with a strong understanding of tactics
2. Players intelligent and good enough to deploy the system.
Arsenal have a fuckwit for manager, and are relying on braindeads like Djourou, Koscielny, Gibbs and Song to implement a system.
Just watch that Blackburn game again and it tells you so much about Djourou, Song and Koscielny. Three of our main 'defensive' players.
Only Sagna is fit enough to call himself a defender.
I am also sick of hearing the Vermaelen myth. In his 'amazing' season Arsenal were humped at home and away to the Chavs and Arsenal had their worst defensive league record IN A DECADE. As a mainstay of that defence, TV5 is massively to blame! Top Footballer, mediocre defender. He likes heading the ball but doesn't seem to enjoy the tactical side of defending (see Nou Camp performance).
Besides. Since when does a single seaosn suddenly make a player top quality? I still remember the Arsenal fans clamouring for Almunia for England!
Babatunde wrote:Augie is spot on. Things Arsene has done to avoid actually getting in a defensive coach and spending money on serious players:
1. Changed to a 4-3-3 (but kept Diaby and Eboue to play in it)
2. Started playing two holding midfielders to protect the defence at times (but these two c**s were Denilson and Song!)
3. Played Arshavin as a lone striker
4. Played RVP as a lone number 9 despite his lack of pace.
For zonal marking to be successful you need two things.
1. A manager with a strong understanding of tactics
2. Players intelligent and good enough to deploy the system.
Arsenal have a fuckwit for manager, and are relying on braindeads like Djourou, Koscielny, Gibbs and Song to implement a system.
Just watch that Blackburn game again and it tells you so much about Djourou, Song and Koscielny. Three of our main 'defensive' players.
Only Sagna is fit enough to call himself a defender.
I am also sick of hearing the Vermaelen myth. In his 'amazing' season Arsenal were humped at home and away to the Chavs and Arsenal had their worst defensive league record IN A DECADE. As a mainstay of that defence, TV5 is massively to blame! Top Footballer, mediocre defender. He likes heading the ball but doesn't seem to enjoy the tactical side of defending (see Nou Camp performance).
Besides. Since when does a single seaosn suddenly make a player top quality? I still remember the Arsenal fans clamouring for Almunia for England!
I remember a good few Irish Gooners clamouring for that as well
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flash gunner
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terry henry
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Spot on. I don't think anyone would question Wengers commitment to the club or the players or even the fans. The problem is that he genuinely thinks he is doing the right thing. He just can't see what the rest of us do.flash gunner wrote:Do you really think Arsene doesnt care or is too lazy to care about training defenders? I cant believe that!!! i think he really just hasnt got a clue anymore
augie wrote:Zonal marking is just a lazy concept brought in by our manager and coaches to avoid actually teaching our players how to defend properly
Zonal marking worked for greece in euro 2004 and chelsea under jose mourinho. Its not been bought it 'to avoid players how to defend propely, thats just a ludicrous.
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arseofacrow
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He doesn't care may be too strong, but what I hear from people who are close to Arsenal, or Arsene, is that not that much emphasis is placed upon defending.flash gunner wrote:Do you really think Arsene doesnt care or is too lazy to care about training defenders? I cant believe that!!! i think he really just hasnt got a clue anymore
That is ok if you are Barcelona. The rest of us have to do it I'm afraid.
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flash gunner
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oh im pretty sure thats true in Arsene's deluded world if you score more than your opponent then you dont have to worry about defending, but i dont think thats down to laziness its just his warped view of football and they way it should be playedarseofacrow wrote:He doesn't care may be too strong, but what I hear from people who are close to Arsenal, or Arsene, is that not that much emphasis is placed upon defending.flash gunner wrote:Do you really think Arsene doesnt care or is too lazy to care about training defenders? I cant believe that!!! i think he really just hasnt got a clue anymore
That is ok if you are Barcelona. The rest of us have to do it I'm afraid.
3 retorts here.terry henry wrote:Spot on. I don't think anyone would question Wengers commitment to the club or the players or even the fans.flash gunner wrote:Do you really think Arsene doesnt care or is too lazy to care about training defenders? I cant believe that!!! i think he really just hasnt got a clue anymore
Retort 1: 'Haven't worked half a day in football' = fuck all respect for the fans
Retort 2: 'I will not be getting a defensive coach'. Again, fuck all care for what the fans think.
Retort 3: 'Second place for the next twenty years' - again, fuck all commitment to what this club should be about!
I think you are all giving him too much credit Flash and Tel.
Wenger is a c**t. He knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He is so arrogant that some of you are not willing to believe anyone could be this much of a c*** but he soooo is!
It is being pointed out to him every week now, by the media, by Redknapp, by fans that he NEEDS help with the defence. If you didn't have a clue then you might listen when pointed out. Oh but I am the great Arsene Wenger 'I have coached for 32 years' (and never won a single European trophy, so fuck off with that please).
He just doesn't give a fuck. He is arrogant. Remember last season he claimed
'Our defence is one of the best from open play.' He acknowledged set pieces WERE an issue but never once got someone in to do it. Fundamental fuckwittery from the wanker.
He is an arrogant tosser. End of story. He knows what needs to be done but accepting it has to be done would be giving in to the people who 'hadn't worked half a day in football'.
And we can't have such philistines making him back down in public eh?
1. Jose Mourinho is one of the best tactical masterminds of the last 15-20 years in football management.topcat wrote:augie wrote:Zonal marking is just a lazy concept brought in by our manager and coaches to avoid actually teaching our players how to defend properly
Zonal marking worked for greece in euro 2004 and chelsea under jose mourinho. Its not been bought it 'to avoid players how to defend propely, thats just a ludicrous.
2. Otto Rehaggel is one of the most tactical managers in international football.
Arsene Wenger cannot hold a 4 goal lead against Newcastle, blames his players for 'not attacking enough' despite being 4-2 up at home to Spuds in the 89th minute, he can score 3 at Blackburn and still lose and recently became the first Arsenal manager to ever concede EIGHT goals to Man United.
It is clear he has no clue how to coach defending. So quite why you are citing the names of Mourinho and Rehaggel - who clearly are very strong defensive managers - is beyond me.
It has been brought in to avoid actually addressing the problem.
Just as when he brought in 4-3-3 to distract from the fact he still wasn't buying quality players and that we'd all be so distracted by the new formation that we'd forget the shit players in it!
Rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic should be Wenger's motto.
