Wengers destroying the club, turning the fans against eachother, creating a poisonous atmosphere. He has become the focal point instead of the football.
Forget about all his other failings. For this reason alone his position is untenable and he should go with a little dignity. In any other walk of life hed be gone.
A genuine question for Wenger supporters
Exactly and I think the bullshit myth that Wenger is so good at developing players is just that - a myth.Babatunde wrote:WHY would you want AW though to be the man to manage these players? I wouldn't. Look at what a rubbish job he did with Reyes and Arshavin. If he brings in players with expectations, he is shocking at coaching them and plays them out of position. No knowledge of tactics, shit motivational skills, zero will to win, no ambition. Even IF he brought in big players, Diaby and Thong would still get the go-ahead.frankbutcher wrote:Wenger needs to show some intent by building a genuinely competitive squad. That is THE mimimum requirement. If that squad comes up short in a season because of injuries, bad luck or whatever, then fine. But as it stands this squad cannot win the League or the Champions League before it starts each season. FACT. That for me is the most unacceptable thing about all this. Why go into every season handicapped before you've started?????????????
Just look at our squad. It is woeful beyond 5-6 good players.
WENGER, GET SOME DECENT FUCKING PLAYERS IN, AND SHIP THE SHITE OUT.
I just want him GONE.
And as Tel mentioned, those that support this manager still?
Well let me tell you, my Spud mates all LOVE Arsene Wenger too these days and want him to stay. Says everything
Senderos looks solid for Fulham and was their best player today. The same Senderos who was known as a donkey when he played for us.
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hugh jardon
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- Location: Clock End
Whilst those above Wenger are more interested in increasing revenues than winning trophies, Arsene's job is very safe.richpye wrote:I would expect his position to be seriously reviewed if we don't qualify for the Champions League. However, I still stick to be previous posts that say that simply a change in manager would not be enough to change our fortunes. Wenger is not solely to blame
Whilst 60,000 people chant "There's only one Arsene Wenger" every home game, (even though the team struggles to compete for 4th place), Arsene's job is very safe.
Maybe not. I feel some are wavering. Some want a trophy. Some want 4th place. Some feel Arsene just being there is success enough.SteveO 35 wrote:Well not really - the fact that they defend him so passionately now means that they already think he is a success, surely?armchair supporter wrote:Perhaps the question should be "What would represent success to you?"
I'd love to know how low we'd need to finish and how consistently before they'd want a change?
They feel he is a success because of past glories yes, but what is success this season?
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SammyDroppedHisShorts
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- Location: In front of the best fans on earth. The Arse and all.
No Sagna
No Jenkinson
No right back
No santos
No Gibbs
No left back
No Vermaelen for long stretches
No quality in Djorou or SS18
No other TOP side would cope over a five match holiday period with bare bones defence....
You guys are sometimes a wee bit dopey calling for his head after every poor result......every single club would suffer at the defensive issues we have....
I was at Fulham tonight and he bare bare bones came to light when Djorou was sent off......
A midfielder playing LB who I thought coped well...
But every time we lose...it's sack Wenger.....
I am currently not his biggest fan but I know the guy at present is working with bare bones in defence and I do believe it's more about how poor the finishing has been as to why we have 7 out of 15 holiday points when in all honesty it should be 12 from 15..... And that extra five pts would have us third.......
No Jenkinson
No right back
No santos
No Gibbs
No left back
No Vermaelen for long stretches
No quality in Djorou or SS18
No other TOP side would cope over a five match holiday period with bare bones defence....
You guys are sometimes a wee bit dopey calling for his head after every poor result......every single club would suffer at the defensive issues we have....
I was at Fulham tonight and he bare bare bones came to light when Djorou was sent off......
A midfielder playing LB who I thought coped well...
But every time we lose...it's sack Wenger.....
I am currently not his biggest fan but I know the guy at present is working with bare bones in defence and I do believe it's more about how poor the finishing has been as to why we have 7 out of 15 holiday points when in all honesty it should be 12 from 15..... And that extra five pts would have us third.......
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I Hate Hleb
- Posts: 18632
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 3:36 pm
- Location: London
Most of those fans that can't - nay won't - see beyond the official Wenger line take their lead from the 'great man' himself. Remember this is the manager that when it was suggested by an Arsenal supporter after a win at Chelsea a few years back that, despite the victory he didn't feel Arsenal could win the league said to that gooner: "Well you can't be a proper supporter then"!! 
Last edited by I Hate Hleb on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's really not very difficult.
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 1998 and said "We've definitely got a good chance with this squad". Bergy, Wright, Overmars, Anelka, Paddy, Platt, Adams, Bould, Dixon, spunky etc.
You looked at Arsenals squad in 2002 and you thought the same.....Paddy, Pires, Bergy, Henry, Ljungberg, Sol, Cashley
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 2006 and thought, yeah maybe....some of the above plus the likes of Fabregas, Adebayor, Van Persie
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 2008 and thought....okay, not as strong as previous years, we could do with another 3 top quality players to really put us up there but we still had Cesc, Adebayor, RVP, Gallas, Eduardo
Look at Arsenal's squad 2011...At the start of the season only the most optimistic person would think we could be competitive with this squad, let alone win the PL. By FAR the weakest squad we've had under Wenger.
It's not rocket science. You don't have to have worked in football for 30 years to know what a decent squad of players look like.
When you mix a very average squad with a manager with very little idea of tactics and even less inclination to actually be pro-active in changing things for the better, then you have today's Arsenal FC.
When RVP leaves next year the squad will look even worse. This is a BIG downward slope we are on people, and it is going to be seriously fucking difficult to get off of it!!
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 1998 and said "We've definitely got a good chance with this squad". Bergy, Wright, Overmars, Anelka, Paddy, Platt, Adams, Bould, Dixon, spunky etc.
You looked at Arsenals squad in 2002 and you thought the same.....Paddy, Pires, Bergy, Henry, Ljungberg, Sol, Cashley
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 2006 and thought, yeah maybe....some of the above plus the likes of Fabregas, Adebayor, Van Persie
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 2008 and thought....okay, not as strong as previous years, we could do with another 3 top quality players to really put us up there but we still had Cesc, Adebayor, RVP, Gallas, Eduardo
Look at Arsenal's squad 2011...At the start of the season only the most optimistic person would think we could be competitive with this squad, let alone win the PL. By FAR the weakest squad we've had under Wenger.
It's not rocket science. You don't have to have worked in football for 30 years to know what a decent squad of players look like.
When you mix a very average squad with a manager with very little idea of tactics and even less inclination to actually be pro-active in changing things for the better, then you have today's Arsenal FC.
When RVP leaves next year the squad will look even worse. This is a BIG downward slope we are on people, and it is going to be seriously fucking difficult to get off of it!!
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QuartzGooner
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- Location: London
Sammy, whilst you are right to a point you can also say:
Santos wouldn't have been injured if Wenger hadn't played him in a meaningless game
Gibbs hasn't been fit for 2 months in a row ever has he? Why are we relying on a perenially injured player as first choice left back? Wenger's choice.
No quality in Djourou or Squillaci.............Wenger's choice to keep them/pay them
How many times have players had awful games but Wenger won't change anything on the pitch? Like our centre midfield today - Arteta and Song were complete passengers.
I won't even start banging on about set pieces and our lack of quality defending them and bigger lack of quality taking them!!
Santos wouldn't have been injured if Wenger hadn't played him in a meaningless game
Gibbs hasn't been fit for 2 months in a row ever has he? Why are we relying on a perenially injured player as first choice left back? Wenger's choice.
No quality in Djourou or Squillaci.............Wenger's choice to keep them/pay them
How many times have players had awful games but Wenger won't change anything on the pitch? Like our centre midfield today - Arteta and Song were complete passengers.
I won't even start banging on about set pieces and our lack of quality defending them and bigger lack of quality taking them!!
Very depressing, and I agree RvP will be the next man out of the door.TeeCee wrote:It's really not very difficult.
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 1998 and said "We've definitely got a good chance with this squad". Bergy, Wright, Overmars, Anelka, Paddy, Platt, Adams, Bould, Dixon, spunky etc.
You looked at Arsenals squad in 2002 and you thought the same.....Paddy, Pires, Bergy, Henry, Ljungberg, Sol, Cashley
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 2006 and thought, yeah maybe....some of the above plus the likes of Fabregas, Adebayor, Van Persie
You looked at Arsenal's squad in 2008 and thought....okay, not as strong as previous years, we could do with another 3 top quality players to really put us up there but we still had Cesc, Adebayor, RVP, Gallas, Eduardo
Look at Arsenal's squad 2011...At the start of the season only the most optimistic person would think we could be competitive with this squad, let alone win the PL. By FAR the weakest squad we've had under Wenger.
It's not rocket science. You don't have to have worked in football for 30 years to know what a decent squad of players look like.
When you mix a very average squad with a manager with very little idea of tactics and even less inclination to actually be pro-active in changing things for the better, then you have today's Arsenal FC.
When RVP leaves next year the squad will look even worse. This is a BIG downward slope we are on people, and it is going to be seriously fucking difficult to get off of it!!
Wenger has fucked the squad beyond repair. It's going to take a long time (and a new manager) before we have a squad capable of winning trophies and challenging at the very highest level.
Injuries or no injuries, our squad is nowhere near good enough and that is demonstrated by our shocking lack of quality attackers apart from RvP.
Walcott who's a guaranteed starter for us, wouldn't get a game for Citeh's reserves.
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SammyDroppedHisShorts
- Posts: 5740
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:55 pm
- Location: In front of the best fans on earth. The Arse and all.
Yes but he could not have foreseen these injury issues on September 1st.....TeeCee wrote:Sammy, whilst you are right to a point you can also say:
Santos wouldn't have been injured if Wenger hadn't played him in a meaningless game
Gibbs hasn't been fit for 2 months in a row ever has he? Why are we relying on a perenially injured player as first choice left back? Wenger's choice.
No quality in Djourou or Squillaci.............Wenger's choice to keep them/pay them
How many times have players had awful games but Wenger won't change anything on the pitch? Like our centre midfield today - Arteta and Song were complete passengers.
I won't even start banging on about set pieces and our lack of quality defending them and bigger lack of quality taking them!!
However, there are no excuses for the next 29 days
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worthing_gooner
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- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:47 pm
- Location: Worthing, West Sussex
Interesting thread. Personally, I'm wavering.
I'm not naive enough to think this is ALL Wenger's fault and I worry that changing the manager will just be a quick fix and won't actually solve anything.
My reasoning (without trying to sound like USM!) is that the board must take ultimate responsibility because they are the ones with the power to change the manager.
Some people say Wenger has cash, some people say he doesn't... Wenger doesn't actually sign the players, he gives Gazidis a list of targets and says go get them. So whose fault is it we didn't sign say Juan Mata in the summer? If Wenger said get him, then it's Gazidis who does the negotiations on price/contracts.
For me, there needs to be sustained pressure put on the board - Gazidis, Kroenke, Hill-Wood - from the fans to say that this is UNACCEPTABLE. The board have set extortionate prices for tickets, are sitting on what we believe to be a large transfer kitty, and yet it's just sitting there gathering dust.
If the fans put the board under pressure, they will in turn put Wenger under pressure to either spend, or pack his bags.
But this will only happen if the fans hit them in the pocket. All the while the club is getting by, standard results, finishing in the top four, nothing will change, because they are content and to them, Wenger is doing a good job.
For us fans, this is unacceptable, but it's no good going after Wenger because we all know how stubborn he is and whilst the board see the money coming in, they quite clearly don't give a shit.
If on the other hand we did a sustained protest against the board, hitting them in their pockets, something will HAVE to change, be it Wenger being forced to spend or Wenger to leave the club, or else the value of Kroenke's investment will drop significantly.
I hope that's not too USM for everyone.
Wenger is as much to blame as anyone else, if not more so, but shouting for Wenger's head won't work as long as the board and the club's funds are unaffected. They'll just bring in another lackey manager.
Start affecting the board and hitting their finances, and all of a sudden you are taking chunks out of their business and their money, then it becomes an issue to them and something will change.
I'm not naive enough to think this is ALL Wenger's fault and I worry that changing the manager will just be a quick fix and won't actually solve anything.
My reasoning (without trying to sound like USM!) is that the board must take ultimate responsibility because they are the ones with the power to change the manager.
Some people say Wenger has cash, some people say he doesn't... Wenger doesn't actually sign the players, he gives Gazidis a list of targets and says go get them. So whose fault is it we didn't sign say Juan Mata in the summer? If Wenger said get him, then it's Gazidis who does the negotiations on price/contracts.
For me, there needs to be sustained pressure put on the board - Gazidis, Kroenke, Hill-Wood - from the fans to say that this is UNACCEPTABLE. The board have set extortionate prices for tickets, are sitting on what we believe to be a large transfer kitty, and yet it's just sitting there gathering dust.
If the fans put the board under pressure, they will in turn put Wenger under pressure to either spend, or pack his bags.
But this will only happen if the fans hit them in the pocket. All the while the club is getting by, standard results, finishing in the top four, nothing will change, because they are content and to them, Wenger is doing a good job.
For us fans, this is unacceptable, but it's no good going after Wenger because we all know how stubborn he is and whilst the board see the money coming in, they quite clearly don't give a shit.
If on the other hand we did a sustained protest against the board, hitting them in their pockets, something will HAVE to change, be it Wenger being forced to spend or Wenger to leave the club, or else the value of Kroenke's investment will drop significantly.
I hope that's not too USM for everyone.
Wenger is as much to blame as anyone else, if not more so, but shouting for Wenger's head won't work as long as the board and the club's funds are unaffected. They'll just bring in another lackey manager.
Start affecting the board and hitting their finances, and all of a sudden you are taking chunks out of their business and their money, then it becomes an issue to them and something will change.
Worthing - dont you think he should go for this never mind anything else?
armchair supporter wrote:Wengers destroying the club, turning the fans against eachother, creating a poisonous atmosphere. He has become the focal point instead of the football.
Forget about all his other failings. For this reason alone his position is untenable and he should go with a little dignity. In any other walk of life hed be gone.
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worthing_gooner
- Posts: 1951
- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:47 pm
- Location: Worthing, West Sussex
I do agree mate, but I don't think it's as simple as getting Wenger out and getting back up the table.armchair supporter wrote:Worthing - dont you think he should go for this never mind anything else?
armchair supporter wrote:Wengers destroying the club, turning the fans against eachother, creating a poisonous atmosphere. He has become the focal point instead of the football.
Forget about all his other failings. For this reason alone his position is untenable and he should go with a little dignity. In any other walk of life hed be gone.
I think the whole club is rotten, from Wenger right up to PHW who is just an old fool, and Kroenke who has offered absolutely no financial investment, put ticket prices up and fucked off back to the states.
