Arshavin leaves

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by DB10GOONER »

markyp wrote:i think Wenger is largely to bame for Arshavins demise,ok he could have tried a little harder but being played out of position especailly on the wing isnt fair.anybody who has ever played as a winger at any level will tell you that sometimes games simply pass you by as you find everything going on through the middle or you find that everytime you get the ball people exspect miracles,i know cos i played their as a kid and at youth level,you can be a hero or a villian,but largely pretty insignificant for most of the game,playing as a winger sometimes makes it almost impossible to get invloved.to be a world class winger takes a very special sort of player,do you think that bergkamp would have flourished out on the wing??
But that's really not the point though, mate. He got lots of the ball. Look at footage of Arshavin on the wing (and even sometimes when he was in his "favoured" position too). He was lazy, hardly ever tracked back, often just passed the ball away and then refused to get forward into a decent position to offer the option to receive the ball back.

If the game passes a player by it passes him by, fair enough not his fault, it happens - but even when AA23 got a good chunk of posession he was poor and lazy, trying stupid back heels to impress instead of keeping it simple and effective, or often just not bothering to develop the play. Wenger is culpable for not using him to his best, absolutely, but ultimately only Arshavings is to blame for his stinker of an attitude and crass laziness and I think more than any other factor that was why he failed with us.

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augie
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by augie »

DB10GOONER wrote:
northbank123 wrote:He could never have been as good as Bergkamp under any manager or regime because he lacked the desire and determination. Bergkamp was technically unbelievable and a genius but he also had a steely determination as all great players have.

Played out of position or not, it always seemed to me like if it was happening for Arshavin then great but if it wasn't then he would quite contently just pick up his wage and not put the hours in in training to turn it round. The bloke gave up on his career before he hit 30.

This ^. 8)

Augie, truly great players like Bergkamp EARN the right to play. It’s about the whole package, not just their skill OR their mental/physical strength – it’s a combination of all those things that make truly great players great.

DB10 was tough as fuck, and a hard hard worker. He could take it and he could dish it out. Many people gloss over DB10 a bit as he is God (yes, he actually is God) but he could be a seriously dirty fucker on the pitch. He needed to be. I remember Hansen on MOTD counting how many times DB10 got kicked elbowed and basically fouled in one game and it was something ridiculous like 30+ times, but DB10 never slacked off.

Arshavings had talent and great technical ability deffo but not near the same level as DB10 for that. And Arshavings was totally lacking in character, mental strength, drive, and hunger (apart from when happily seated at KFC). The man had no grit.


Are you saying that great players have to earn the right to play in their proper positions ? I keep pointing to the fact that arshavin was played out of position and of that there is no doubt but the anti arshavin crew are dodging the "what if Bergkamp was played on the wing" question even though it is a reasonable question. I will concede that he really has showed a lack of determination and backbone but I will not concede that he was played frequently played in his rightful position cos that is clearly incorrect. Was it this season that he played in the No.10 position for the first time in a long time and wenger raved after the game about how good he played in that position ? Simple fact is that he had the ability to be a great player for us but constantly being played out of his position affected his performances and attitude to the point that he has become lazy, fat and uninterested but the being played out of position issue came first

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QuartzGooner
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by QuartzGooner »

Augie

Arshavin playing wide midfield was not being played out of position.

He had two positions, number 10 or wide midfield.
He played both in Russia, and when he played wide midfield for us in his first half season he was very good.

He was played as lone striker for about 8 games, that was out of position and he was not very good.

The bottom line is that Arshavin was an unmotivated lazy chubbster.

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northbank123
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by northbank123 »

I'm genuinely not sure of the answer so this isn't rhetorical but was he really that unfamiliar with playing out wide? Although he put in a few very good performances when allowed to play behind the striker(s) for us, as I gather it was hardly unheard of for him to play as a winger and indeed played there a lot, certainly in his younger years. And again this may not be correct as I didn't make many games at all that season but wasn't he playing out wide most of the time in his first half-season too? And doing it pretty well.

And there are several ways to react to being played out of position:

1) Talk to the manager about being given the opportunity to play there (might not have been possible with Wenger's stubbornness or in any event with Fabregas' advanced role in his later years at the club)
2) Accept that the change of position may not be coming any time soon, be grateful you are playing for a big club in front of 60,000 people in top competitions and earning filthy money and work as hard at you can on your game in the position you're being played in.
3) Respectfully ask to leave the club so that you can move on and play in your desired position elsewhere.

Unfortunately, Andrey chose option 4) - Stop putting the effort in in matches and training, put on weight and be happy that you still get paid to turn up and piss about at training for a few hours a day. He didn't just give up on the team, he completely gave up on himself.

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goonersid
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by goonersid »

augie wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
northbank123 wrote:He could never have been as good as Bergkamp under any manager or regime because he lacked the desire and determination. Bergkamp was technically unbelievable and a genius but he also had a steely determination as all great players have.

Played out of position or not, it always seemed to me like if it was happening for Arshavin then great but if it wasn't then he would quite contently just pick up his wage and not put the hours in in training to turn it round. The bloke gave up on his career before he hit 30.

This ^. 8)

Augie, truly great players like Bergkamp EARN the right to play. It’s about the whole package, not just their skill OR their mental/physical strength – it’s a combination of all those things that make truly great players great.

DB10 was tough as fuck, and a hard hard worker. He could take it and he could dish it out. Many people gloss over DB10 a bit as he is God (yes, he actually is God) but he could be a seriously dirty fucker on the pitch. He needed to be. I remember Hansen on MOTD counting how many times DB10 got kicked elbowed and basically fouled in one game and it was something ridiculous like 30+ times, but DB10 never slacked off.

Arshavings had talent and great technical ability deffo but not near the same level as DB10 for that. And Arshavings was totally lacking in character, mental strength, drive, and hunger (apart from when happily seated at KFC). The man had no grit.


Are you saying that great players have to earn the right to play in their proper positions ? I keep pointing to the fact that arshavin was played out of position and of that there is no doubt but the anti arshavin crew are dodging the "what if Bergkamp was played on the wing" question even though it is a reasonable question. I will concede that he really has showed a lack of determination and backbone but I will not concede that he was played frequently played in his rightful position cos that is clearly incorrect. Was it this season that he played in the No.10 position for the first time in a long time and wenger raved after the game about how good he played in that position ? Simple fact is that he had the ability to be a great player for us but constantly being played out of his position affected his performances and attitude to the point that he has become lazy, fat and uninterested but the being played out of position issue came first
Agree 100% with Augie on this, also if Arsahvin was such a lazy bastard as some would have you to believe, then he would never have become the player he was before he joined Arsenal.
Arshavin was a key player in the Russian team and also at zenit, you don't achieve this by being plain lazy. Wenger played him out of position from virtually day one and I'm sure Arshavin would never have even signed if he'd knew that was going to happen.
We are now seeing the same thing with Podolski, another proven player at club and international level, and before anyone chirps in that he plays wide for Germany, there is a big difference between compromising your best position to play for your country (maybe 8-10 time a year) and being forced to that at club level, and made even worse when the striker being preferred is fucking shite.

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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by donaldo »

goonersid wrote:
augie wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
northbank123 wrote:He could never have been as good as Bergkamp under any manager or regime because he lacked the desire and determination. Bergkamp was technically unbelievable and a genius but he also had a steely determination as all great players have.

Played out of position or not, it always seemed to me like if it was happening for Arshavin then great but if it wasn't then he would quite contently just pick up his wage and not put the hours in in training to turn it round. The bloke gave up on his career before he hit 30.

This ^. 8)

Augie, truly great players like Bergkamp EARN the right to play. It’s about the whole package, not just their skill OR their mental/physical strength – it’s a combination of all those things that make truly great players great.

DB10 was tough as fuck, and a hard hard worker. He could take it and he could dish it out. Many people gloss over DB10 a bit as he is God (yes, he actually is God) but he could be a seriously dirty fucker on the pitch. He needed to be. I remember Hansen on MOTD counting how many times DB10 got kicked elbowed and basically fouled in one game and it was something ridiculous like 30+ times, but DB10 never slacked off.

Arshavings had talent and great technical ability deffo but not near the same level as DB10 for that. And Arshavings was totally lacking in character, mental strength, drive, and hunger (apart from when happily seated at KFC). The man had no grit.


Are you saying that great players have to earn the right to play in their proper positions ? I keep pointing to the fact that arshavin was played out of position and of that there is no doubt but the anti arshavin crew are dodging the "what if Bergkamp was played on the wing" question even though it is a reasonable question. I will concede that he really has showed a lack of determination and backbone but I will not concede that he was played frequently played in his rightful position cos that is clearly incorrect. Was it this season that he played in the No.10 position for the first time in a long time and wenger raved after the game about how good he played in that position ? Simple fact is that he had the ability to be a great player for us but constantly being played out of his position affected his performances and attitude to the point that he has become lazy, fat and uninterested but the being played out of position issue came first
Agree 100% with Augie on this, also if Arsahvin was such a lazy bastard as some would have you to believe, then he would never have become the player he was before he joined Arsenal.
Arshavin was a key player in the Russian team and also at zenit, you don't achieve this by being plain lazy. Wenger played him out of position from virtually day one and I'm sure Arshavin would never have even signed if he'd knew that was going to happen.
We are now seeing the same thing with Podolski, another proven player at club and international level, and before anyone chirps in that he plays wide for Germany, there is a big difference between compromising your best position to play for your country (maybe 8-10 time a year) and being forced to that at club level, and made even worse when the striker being preferred is fucking shite.
Totally agree.Did none of you see him play for Russia and Zenith before he joined us.He was a number 10 and a great one at that.But our dopey manager played him on the wing.
Remember that cup semi final v Chelsea when Arshavin was on fire and Wenger the :censored: had him on the bench :banghead:

The blame for Arshavins career being wasted falls squarely at the door of the dictator.And he has done the same to Podolski

But we will still have shite like Gervinho and Giroud at the club so who cares?

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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by QuartzGooner »

donaldo wrote:Did none of you see him play for Russia and Zenith before he joined us.He was a number 10 and a great one at that.But our dopey manager played him on the wing.
Remember that cup semi final v Chelsea when Arshavin was on fire and Wenger the :censored: had him on the bench :banghead:

The blame for Arshavins career being wasted falls squarely at the door of the dictator.
Disagree strongly.

Arshavin played both wide and central for Zenit.

Is Wenger to blame for Arshavin stuffing his face?

Is Arshavin now absolved of individual responsibility because on £90,000 per week he is asked to play 10 feet away from his favourite and best position?

He was good wide midfield in his first season, he was still being picked for Russia and could have gone on to win many plaudits.

But no, he decided to eat instead.
And to not give 100% in training.

As NB123 has said, if he was that unhappy he could have moved to another club.

If ever there was a player guilty of wasting the club's money it is this one.

Yes, Diaby and Ramsey are not half the players Arshavin could have been, but at least they do what they can to get into shape.

Arshavin = Fatty

I know I have posted a lot on this thread but to see a player not try and play properly for the club I support whilst on £90,000 per week, is an insult and it winds me up.

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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by kiwomya »

People are talking like Arshavin was forced to play in goal or something.

Like I said in my previous post, IMO, he was signed knowing full well he would be played out wide. He started wide on his fucking debut! Players aren't rigid robots who can only handle one position. I think someone else said it too - being pushed a few yards wide doesn't mean you lose all ability to pass the fucking ball.

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by I Hate Hleb »

Agree with nb123 and Quartz. Despite Wenger not getting the best out of him, ultimately it was down to the attitude of the player.

Augie,

I know I'm a puff head but I remember quite a few matches where Bergkamp didn't play directly up top with or behind Henry, and instead was positioned out on the right. Admittedly it came more towards the end of his career but he definitely did have to start there for some games.

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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by I Hate Hleb »

goonersid wrote:
augie wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
northbank123 wrote:He could never have been as good as Bergkamp under any manager or regime because he lacked the desire and determination. Bergkamp was technically unbelievable and a genius but he also had a steely determination as all great players have.

Played out of position or not, it always seemed to me like if it was happening for Arshavin then great but if it wasn't then he would quite contently just pick up his wage and not put the hours in in training to turn it round. The bloke gave up on his career before he hit 30.

This ^. 8)

Augie, truly great players like Bergkamp EARN the right to play. It’s about the whole package, not just their skill OR their mental/physical strength – it’s a combination of all those things that make truly great players great.

DB10 was tough as fuck, and a hard hard worker. He could take it and he could dish it out. Many people gloss over DB10 a bit as he is God (yes, he actually is God) but he could be a seriously dirty fucker on the pitch. He needed to be. I remember Hansen on MOTD counting how many times DB10 got kicked elbowed and basically fouled in one game and it was something ridiculous like 30+ times, but DB10 never slacked off.

Arshavings had talent and great technical ability deffo but not near the same level as DB10 for that. And Arshavings was totally lacking in character, mental strength, drive, and hunger (apart from when happily seated at KFC). The man had no grit.


Are you saying that great players have to earn the right to play in their proper positions ? I keep pointing to the fact that arshavin was played out of position and of that there is no doubt but the anti arshavin crew are dodging the "what if Bergkamp was played on the wing" question even though it is a reasonable question. I will concede that he really has showed a lack of determination and backbone but I will not concede that he was played frequently played in his rightful position cos that is clearly incorrect. Was it this season that he played in the No.10 position for the first time in a long time and wenger raved after the game about how good he played in that position ? Simple fact is that he had the ability to be a great player for us but constantly being played out of his position affected his performances and attitude to the point that he has become lazy, fat and uninterested but the being played out of position issue came first
Agree 100% with Augie on this, also if Arsahvin was such a lazy bastard as some would have you to believe, then he would never have become the player he was before he joined Arsenal...
What - a player in his mid 20's knocking about in the Russian Leagues who, up until the point where he shone in the Euro Championship, no big club in European had deemed good enough to have taken a chance on? :rubchin: :rubchin:

Don't get me wrong, I initially loved the guy and was desperate for us to sign him. However it wasn't too long before I found myself screaming out at the guy every other week because of his lackadaisical attitude, careless usage of the ball and down-right laziness. :evil: :evil: :banghead: :banghead: My biggest disappointment since Kylie said No to the idea of inviting her sister to join us for a threesome!! :cry: :cry: :roll: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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bergkamp10
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by bergkamp10 »

green gooner wrote:I thought he had retired years ago :shock: :shock:
:D :D

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by SteveO 35 »

Wenger made the pathetic mistake of not including him in the FA Cup semi versus the Chavs when he was the form player in the country (and also included the useless Pole in goal who duly threw away the game in customary fashion......still who cares about cups eh?)

However.......Wenger can't be blamed for the disgusting lazy arsed attitude of the player for the past couple of years......wide midfield, central midfield whatever - he has been a rank lazy bastard who piled on the pounds and thought his sole contribution to a match could be a backheel here and a little one touch flick there. Wenger has played the likes of Bendy wide on the left and could be blamed for that, but at least Bendy tried to make it work....he simply wasn't good enough, quick enough or deft enough to play there........but the lazy fat Russian had the attributes to play there but simply didn't turn up anywhere near often enough. Wenger actually gave him a decent run in the side too - more than a year - where he was shite almost every fucking week

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Herd
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by Herd »

Moody overpaid *word censored* who couldn't be bothered to play .
Hated in Russia ,forgotten by the rest of the world .
In football as in life you get back what you put in !

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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by goonersid »

I Hate Hleb wrote: What - a player in his mid 20's knocking about in the Russian Leagues who, up until the point where he shone in the Euro Championship, no big club in European had deemed good enough to have taken a chance on? :rubchin: :rubchin:

Don't get me wrong, I initially loved the guy and was desperate for us to sign him. However it wasn't too long before I found myself screaming out at the guy every other week because of his lackadaisical attitude, careless usage of the ball and down-right laziness. :evil: :evil: :banghead: :banghead: My biggest disappointment since Kylie said No to the idea of inviting her sister to join us for a threesome!! :cry: :cry: :roll: :lol: :lol: :wink:
Destroyed by Wenger or useless to begin with and should never have been signed?
Either way Wenger's still to blame :wink:

1989
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Re: Arshavin to retire / Groundhog day

Post by 1989 »

Could have been a legend, chose to be a footnote.

Fuck the fat lazy little Russian cant.

[Edit: His nationality, and relationship to a former Playschool present, are irrelevant - Quartz]

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