The Gooner Forum

Arsenal Till I Die wrote:

OH, AND YOU CAN'T USE THE 'Y' WORD ON HERE EITHER - EVEN WHEN DISCUSSING THE CURRENT DEBATE!!!)[/b]

My life, what can people say anymore?

Nothing!! Every conversation must henceforth be conducted in sign language!! (I think we all know which one will be used the most!!)

I Hate Hleb wrote:Nothing!! Every conversation must henceforth be conducted in sign language!!

Brilliant, I know some offensive sign language too

I take it that represents 'Would Sir like to go Up or Straight On?'

arseofacrow wrote:

Arsenal Till I Die wrote:Have a word with yourself, mate.

It's not used in an insulting way, they in fact are proud to be called it. Jewish spud fans have never had an issue with it, the Jewish OWNERS have never issued any protest against it being chanted. If it is used in a way where it is insulting the Jewish community then by all means ban it but after decades of it being chanted it has never been a problem but because David Baddiel now decides to bring it up, the only man who's ever been offended by it, it's now a big issue.

I would like to refer Mr Baddiel to his own fans (Chelsea) who hiss in reference to the holocaust and gas chambers, yet has he ever spoken about that? No, he hasn't.

I loath those scummy wankers with a passion but they're not doing anything wrong.

You're wrong about Baddiel, who has spoken specifically about Chelsea fans and him and his brother's negative experiences at Chelsea. He did a programme for the BBC.

And are you a member of the Jewish community and can therefore, without fear of contradiction, say that no one is or has ever been offended by this word, regardless of context? I would find that hard to believe and it's probably one of those things that splits opinion - some don't care, some are vehemently against it, some would rather not hear it at all.

Despite him talking about it on a program, has he actively campaigned against his own fans and fans of other clubs who wrongly mock the holocaust? Why focus on a set of fans who use the term proudly the represent themselves and haven't used the term in a negative way?

Is it the scum fans fault that other fans mock the Jewish community?

In relation to my comment about offence I was referring to publicly coming out speaking about it. I don't doubt there are people out there who have probably been offended by it. We live in an age where everything referring to someone can be considered offensive.

I don't doubt that if it was said in a negative way then it is a problem, but it's not.

If we're going to start banning chants which have stood for years without contest then lets start trying to get the scum banned from calling Wenger a pedophile at everygame, that's offensive and slanderous. Let's stop the ''Stand Up If you Hate Tottenham'' chant because it can be considered a hate crime

Where does the line stop?

Arsenal Till I Die wrote:

arseofacrow wrote:

Arsenal Till I Die wrote:Have a word with yourself, mate.

It's not used in an insulting way, they in fact are proud to be called it. Jewish spud fans have never had an issue with it, the Jewish OWNERS have never issued any protest against it being chanted. If it is used in a way where it is insulting the Jewish community then by all means ban it but after decades of it being chanted it has never been a problem but because David Baddiel now decides to bring it up, the only man who's ever been offended by it, it's now a big issue.

I would like to refer Mr Baddiel to his own fans (Chelsea) who hiss in reference to the holocaust and gas chambers, yet has he ever spoken about that? No, he hasn't.

I loath those scummy wankers with a passion but they're not doing anything wrong.

You're wrong about Baddiel, who has spoken specifically about Chelsea fans and him and his brother's negative experiences at Chelsea. He did a programme for the BBC.

And are you a member of the Jewish community and can therefore, without fear of contradiction, say that no one is or has ever been offended by this word, regardless of context? I would find that hard to believe and it's probably one of those things that splits opinion - some don't care, some are vehemently against it, some would rather not hear it at all.

Despite him talking about it on a program, has he actively campaigned against his own fans and fans of other clubs who wrongly mock the holocaust? Why focus on a set of fans who use the term proudly the represent themselves and haven't used the term in a negative way?

Is it the scum fans fault that other fans mock the Jewish community?

In relation to my comment about offence I was referring to publicly coming out speaking about it. I don't doubt there are people out there who have probably been offended by it. We live in an age where everything referring to someone can be considered offensive.

I don't doubt that if it was said in a negative way then it is a problem, but it's not.

I don't really want to debate this issue, at all, so I was just responding to what you actually said in your post and what I saw as inaccuracies.

I'll leave it to someone else who knows more or cares more to take it further.

My suspicion is that this is an issue that's been dragged up by the left wing PC lobby which needs things like this to bleat about to justify its existence. The FA and police won't take much convincing to get on board with something that boosts their anti-discrimination credentials either. Having said that I'm not jewish so its not for me to say if it is actually offensive or not.

I do not think there is any deep political agenda.

David Baddiel started the campaign, he is offended, and has been by many chants at Chelsea.

Some other Jews such as myself do not like the word used in a football context, mostly it has no hate connotations, but I just think it is something that gives a chance for genuine hatred to manifest and express itself should someone be a hate consumed person.

But as I have said before, it is a genuine word from the Yiddish language used over many hundreds of years. With no derogatory connotations whatsoever, so it is used in daily Jewish life.

And there are plenty of Jews not offended by it at all, in a religious or football context.

I once read a sub headline in Jewish newspaper "Rabbi visits Tottenham Yidden" which had not a hint of irony.

(Yidden being plural of ****).

Wonder how many people were arrested at Shite Hart Lane today... after all, I bet there were thousands using the Y word.

I'm guessing none.

g88ner wrote:Wonder how many people were arrested at Shite Hart Lane today... after all, I bet there were thousands using the Y word.

I'm guessing none.

What about our fans signing "****, ****" at the end of a song? Lock them up!!!

West Ham fans were very well behaved today I heard. There were no reported uses of the offensive words; "champions league" and "top four"....

Dan_85 wrote:West Ham fans were very well behaved today I heard. There were no reported uses of the offensive words; "champions league" and "top four"....

Not just with the Y word, but with other such debates that have been had; a lot of talk has been that certain things shouldn't be said because people may be offended. People need to understand that there is no legal right not to be offended. Nor should there be, nor could there be.
If words or actions are likely to induce hatred or violence they should be illegal. If words are slanderous then action can be taken. But please, let's not start making descriptions illegal.
Around the country over the years football stadiums have been the scene of many funny and not so funny, insulting chants. It's about context. It's not the theatre.

I think this current debate is about the politicians trying to gain the vote of a particular section of society.
I don't use the term myself but equally I don't cringe when I hear it (although I would prefer not to).

My only concern relates to the term ' Jackeen Fuckmuppet' as if I am no longer allowed to use that I might have to start calling people things like 'Dwarfy Alan' or 'DB9 1/2'.

^^^^^