Religion

[Rugby Gooner]

Flash, you are ,in my opinion, 100% correct.
This is about two worlds ,cultures , whatever, colliding. In my opinion Western "Liberal" society is totally incompatible with the dogmatic, intransigent ideology/religion that is Islam.
I try to speak from experience, and not just "feeling." Around the time of the 7/7 events in London, I was working in a distribution warehouse for a major retail company .On the day that a National "Minutes Silence" was observed in the U.K. for the victims, and the company I that I was working for at the time announced, via the tannoy system that the silence would be observed. As it began, people stopped working and stood in rememberance, except for two youngish muslim lads, who shouted that "More English should have been killed, and that "they deserved it." A female worker standing in the next aisle, said to them that people, "were only showing respect for those that had been killed," and that, "People from every culture had been victims." The response from one of these "lads" was, "If you don't shut you infidel mouth, I will cut your throat." The woman reported the incident, but as the management dragged their feet, she phoned the Anti terrorist Hotline, (because as well as this incident, the lad and his mate had been passing pro 9/11 shit around in the locker rooms, and watching be-heading videos etc on their phones during breaks. The H.R dept took it upon themselves to inform these two individuals when Northamptonshire Police contacted the company, and quell supriz, they both disappeared from the company within days.

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

Flash, you are ,in my opinion, 100% correct.
This is about two worlds ,cultures , whatever, colliding. In my opinion Western "Liberal" society is totally incompatible with the dogmatic, intransigent ideology/religion that is Islam.
I try to speak from experience, and not just "feeling." Around the time of the 7/7 events in London, I was working in a distribution warehouse for a major retail company .On the day that a National "Minutes Silence" was observed in the U.K. for the victims, and the company I that I was working for at the time announced, via the tannoy system that the silence would be observed. As it began, people stopped working and stood in rememberance, except for two youngish muslim lads, who shouted that "More English should have been killed, and that "they deserved it." A female worker standing in the next aisle, said to them that people, "were only showing respect for those that had been killed," and that, "People from every culture had been victims." The response from one of these "lads" was, "If you don't shut you infidel mouth, I will cut your throat." The woman reported the incident, but as the management dragged their feet, she phoned the Anti terrorist Hotline, (because as well as this incident, the lad and his mate had been passing pro 9/11 shit around in the locker rooms, and watching be-heading videos etc on their phones during breaks. The H.R dept took it upon themselves to inform these two individuals when Northamptonshire Police contacted the company, and quell supriz, they both disappeared from the company within days.

Damn. So disrespectful. If that shit happened here anywhere near 9/11, i kid you not, those two would have been put in the hospital by any american male that heard them...

[Chippy]

[Chippy]

Also, Yankee, American macho politics is one of the biggest reasons we are where we are.

[GranadaJoe]

Religion is an important part of many lives, it provides a sense of direction and comfort to followers. All religions deserve respect and tolerance. But more importantly all religions must practice and display respect and tolerance to all.

Why do all religions deserve respect and tolerance?

Religions protect their employees who rape and torture children. They condemn homosexuality. Discriminate against women. Tell everyone who is not an adherent to their creed that they will burn in everlasting hell. Ban them from using condoms. Extol the purity of poverty while hoarding billions. Allow slavery. Call for murder. Commit genocide. Tell us our children can't have blood transfusions. Allow child brides. Persecute people who criticise them. Change their inalienable creeds when it suits them, having persecuted those who previously suggested the same things.

They tell us that a supreme being created the universe and us in six days/five minutes from dust or earth or chocolate, but that we are so disgusting that we can only achieve salvation by constantly, for our entire lives, worshipping them, despite the fact that must have made AIDS, ebola etc and that belief in them is the key requirement for eternal life. It doesn't matter if you've raped and murdered on an industrial scale provided you truly repent before you die, whereas a non-believer who devotes their life to helping others will burn, not to mention your non-believing child.

Most Gods watched the world suffer for 250,000 years until they revealed themselves to the people at some point between 3000BC and 1500AD.

By definition, of the thousands of religions around the world only one could be true. The rest must be bollocks.

I respect everybody's right to believe what they want. God, Allah, Odin, the Easter Bunny, I don't mind. But respect religions. You must be joking.

[afcforever]

Flash, you are ,in my opinion, 100% correct.
This is about two worlds ,cultures , whatever, colliding. In my opinion Western "Liberal" society is totally incompatible with the dogmatic, intransigent ideology/religion that is Islam.
I try to speak from experience, and not just "feeling." Around the time of the 7/7 events in London, I was working in a distribution warehouse for a major retail company .On the day that a National "Minutes Silence" was observed in the U.K. for the victims, and the company I that I was working for at the time announced, via the tannoy system that the silence would be observed. As it began, people stopped working and stood in rememberance, except for two youngish muslim lads, who shouted that "More English should have been killed, and that "they deserved it." A female worker standing in the next aisle, said to them that people, "were only showing respect for those that had been killed," and that, "People from every culture had been victims." The response from one of these "lads" was, "If you don't shut you infidel mouth, I will cut your throat." The woman reported the incident, but as the management dragged their feet, she phoned the Anti terrorist Hotline, (because as well as this incident, the lad and his mate had been passing pro 9/11 shit around in the locker rooms, and watching be-heading videos etc on their phones during breaks. The H.R dept took it upon themselves to inform these two individuals when Northamptonshire Police contacted the company, and quell supriz, they both disappeared from the company within days.

Damn. So disrespectful. If that shit happened here anywhere near 9/11, i kid you not, those two would have been put in the hospital by any american male that heard them...

I'm sure if that happened at a lot of other places in the UK, they would of been put in hospital.

[Bradywasking]

Religion is an important part of many lives, it provides a sense of direction and comfort to followers. All religions deserve respect and tolerance. But more importantly all religions must practice and display respect and tolerance to all.

Why do all religions deserve respect and tolerance?

Religions protect their employees who rape and torture children. They condemn homosexuality. Discriminate against women. Tell everyone who is not an adherent to their creed that they will burn in everlasting hell. Ban them from using condoms. Extol the purity of poverty while hoarding billions. Allow slavery. Call for murder. Commit genocide. Tell us our children can't have blood transfusions. Allow child brides. Persecute people who criticise them. Change their inalienable creeds when it suits them, having persecuted those who previously suggested the same things.

They tell us that a supreme being created the universe and us in six days/five minutes from dust or earth or chocolate, but that we are so disgusting that we can only achieve salvation by constantly, for our entire lives, worshipping them, despite the fact that must have made AIDS, ebola etc and that belief in them is the key requirement for eternal life. It doesn't matter if you've raped and murdered on an industrial scale provided you truly repent before you die, whereas a non-believer who devotes their life to helping others will burn, not to mention your non-believing child.

Most Gods watched the world suffer for 250,000 years until they revealed themselves to the people at some point between 3000BC and 1500AD.

By definition, of the thousands of religions around the world only one could be true. The rest must be bollocks.

I respect everybody's right to believe what they want. God, Allah, Odin, the Easter Bunny, I don't mind. But respect religions. You must be joking.

The point i am making is that the respect has to be a two way street and i fully accept that it is not. But a person's right to religious expression deserves respect on condition that said religion allows respect and respects others. I cannot defend violence perpetrated on any grounds especially in the name of any God, and maybe it is idealist and utopia like to say what I did .

[northbank123]

Very good post GJ.

The thing is it's not like there are mosques for radicals and mosques for moderates. Their children aren't sent to different schools, they don't shop in different places. And, certainly from anything I've read, mosques are overwhelming the place where young Muslims are radicalised. It's not particularly subtle and for each homegrown extremist there must be another 5 who consider themselves moderate but keep their mouth shut about serious knowledge of radicalisation and growing extremism.

It's obviously nowhere near as easy as Muslims start piping up and this all goes away, but there is a huge culpability and responsibility on the Muslim community as a whole when it knows these things are or may be happening.

[GranadaJoe]

I do think that there is a particular problem with Islam at the moment, though it should be noted that many extremeists are radicalised in prison, not just in the mosque.
Also, in recent decades once 'moderate' Islamic countries have been hardened due to Middle Eastern, and particularly Saudi money and ideology (Wahabbiism / Salafist etc) being deliberately exported.

I have some sympathy with moderates who wonder why, every time a nutter blows himself up, they are expected to take to to streets decrying it (though I think it would be helpful if they did).
Also, SKy, the BBC etc need to give moderates the airtime. Too often they role out some extremist nutter to debate the situation. Most Muslims are not Anjem Choudary. They're worried about their kids, mortgages etc like the rest of us.

It should also be remembered that there are plenty of nutty 'christian' / Hindu etc groups who picket military funerals / call for all 'fags' / Jews / Catholics etc to be killed, and when a 'christian' killed a doctor who performed abortions I don't remember Christian groups taking to the streets to demonstrate 'not in my name'.

imo the harm caused by religion far outweighs the good.

[augie]

Getting back on point re events in paris, can I say that I agree with earlier suggestions that it is getting to the point where direct action needs to be taken against the muslims These fcukers are so fcuking arrogant and try and intimidate every non muslim regardless of what country or city that they are living in. If these c.unts find western society and it's moralities so offensive and disgusting, then why don't they fcuk back to whatever shithole they came from cos nobody would miss them that's for sure If peaceful muslims move into my country or your country or wherever, and they integrate themselves into local society whilst still remaining practicing muslims, then I would have no problems with that - however moving into another country/society and expecting the "locals" to conform to their ideologies is unfcukingacceptable
For us "peaceful westerners", we are now in a real conundrum - we know that non all muslims are extremists, but when we see one or two of them walking in our direction, how do we know where their beliefs lie ? The more aggressive muslims will delight in the unease that they are creating in their communities but the passive muslims make zero efforts to mediate and "rat" out their muslims terrorists buddies which makes them as culpable imo.

As a western society we need to be more aggressive in taking back control of our own countries - even though I would class myself as non aggressive, I would be very comfortable with any form of retribution that is taken against the muslims. The one thing that I am absolutely 100% in favour of, is direct action being taken against the likes of isis in their own backyards - these terrorists claim to be willing to sacrifice their lives over here when they are bombing and shooting up the place, but would they be willing to sacrifice the lives of their families back home ? These people need to see that if they take innocent lives over here, then western forces are willing to bomb neighbourhoods in their countries regardless of the innocence or guilt of the victims.

[Chippy]

Getting back on point re events in paris, can I say that I agree with earlier suggestions that it is getting to the point where direct action needs to be taken against the muslims These fcukers are so fcuking arrogant and try and intimidate every non muslim regardless of what country or city that they are living in. If these c.unts find western society and it's moralities so offensive and disgusting, then why don't they fcuk back to whatever shithole they came from cos nobody would miss them that's for sure If peaceful muslims move into my country or your country or wherever, and they integrate themselves into local society whilst still remaining practicing muslims, then I would have no problems with that - however moving into another country/society and expecting the "locals" to conform to their ideologies is unfcukingacceptable
For us "peaceful westerners", we are now in a real conundrum - we know that non all muslims are extremists, but when we see one or two of them walking in our direction, how do we know where their beliefs lie ? The more aggressive muslims will delight in the unease that they are creating in their communities but the passive muslims make zero efforts to mediate and "rat" out their muslims terrorists buddies which makes them as culpable imo.

As a western society we need to be more aggressive in taking back control of our own countries - even though I would class myself as non aggressive, I would be very comfortable with any form of retribution that is taken against the muslims. The one thing that I am absolutely 100% in favour of, is direct action being taken against the likes of isis in their own backyards - these terrorists claim to be willing to sacrifice their lives over here when they are bombing and shooting up the place, but would they be willing to sacrifice the lives of their families back home ? These people need to see that if they take innocent lives over here, then western forces are willing to bomb neighbourhoods in their countries regardless of the innocence or guilt of the victims.

Wow Augie, I agree with you word for word on most of your footy posts but tthat is so far out there.

I've done a little exercise with your post. Imagine it is the 70s

Getting back on point re events in Guildford and Birmingham, can I say that I agree with earlier suggestions that it is getting to the point where direct action needs to be taken against the Irish These fcukers are so fcuking arrogant and try and intimidate every Englishman. If these c.unts find England and it's moralities so offensive and disgusting, then why don't they fcuk back to whatever shithole they came from cos nobody would miss them that's for sure If peaceful irish catholics move into my country or your country or wherever, and they integrate themselves into local society whilst still remaining practicing catholics then I would have no problems with that - however moving into another country/society and expecting the "locals" to conform to their ideologies is unfcukingacceptable
For us "peaceful English", we are now in a real conundrum - we know that not all Irish are extremists, but when we see one or two of them walking in our direction, how do we know where their beliefs lie ? The more aggressive Irish will delight in the unease that they are creating in their communities but the passive Irish make zero efforts to mediate and "rat" out their catholic terrorists buddies which makes them as culpable imo.

As a western society we need to be more aggressive in taking back control of our own country - even though I would class myself as non aggressive, I would be very comfortable with any form of retribution that is taken against the catholics. The one thing that I am absolutely 100% in favour of, is direct action being taken against the likes of the IRA in their own backyards - these terrorists claim to be willing to sacrifice their lives over here when they are bombing and shooting up the place, but would they be willing to sacrifice the lives of their families back home ? These people need to see that if they take innocent lives over here, then British forces are willing to bomb neighbourhoods in Ireland regardless of the innocence or guilt of the victims.

Reads well doesn't it.

[Henry Norris 1913]

In my opinion religion deserves no respect, it was a means of controlling the gullible masses and keeping society in order, and is a bigger source of suffering than anything else in the world. that does not mean I necessarily disrespect the people that choose to subscribe to it however.

[afcforever]

Getting back on point re events in paris, can I say that I agree with earlier suggestions that it is getting to the point where direct action needs to be taken against the muslims These fcukers are so fcuking arrogant and try and intimidate every non muslim regardless of what country or city that they are living in. If these c.unts find western society and it's moralities so offensive and disgusting, then why don't they fcuk back to whatever shithole they came from cos nobody would miss them that's for sure If peaceful muslims move into my country or your country or wherever, and they integrate themselves into local society whilst still remaining practicing muslims, then I would have no problems with that - however moving into another country/society and expecting the "locals" to conform to their ideologies is unfcukingacceptable
For us "peaceful westerners", we are now in a real conundrum - we know that non all muslims are extremists, but when we see one or two of them walking in our direction, how do we know where their beliefs lie ? The more aggressive muslims will delight in the unease that they are creating in their communities but the passive muslims make zero efforts to mediate and "rat" out their muslims terrorists buddies which makes them as culpable imo.

As a western society we need to be more aggressive in taking back control of our own countries - even though I would class myself as non aggressive, I would be very comfortable with any form of retribution that is taken against the muslims. The one thing that I am absolutely 100% in favour of, is direct action being taken against the likes of isis in their own backyards - these terrorists claim to be willing to sacrifice their lives over here when they are bombing and shooting up the place, but would they be willing to sacrifice the lives of their families back home ? These people need to see that if they take innocent lives over here, then western forces are willing to bomb neighbourhoods in their countries regardless of the innocence or guilt of the victims.

I agree with you 100%, they need to be stopped.

[GranadaJoe]

Getting back on point re events in paris, can I say that I agree with earlier suggestions that it is getting to the point where direct action needs to be taken against the muslims These fcukers are so fcuking arrogant and try and intimidate every non muslim regardless of what country or city that they are living in. If these c.unts find western society and it's moralities so offensive and disgusting, then why don't they fcuk back to whatever shithole they came from cos nobody would miss them that's for sure If peaceful muslims move into my country or your country or wherever, and they integrate themselves into local society whilst still remaining practicing muslims, then I would have no problems with that - however moving into another country/society and expecting the "locals" to conform to their ideologies is unfcukingacceptable
For us "peaceful westerners", we are now in a real conundrum - we know that non all muslims are extremists, but when we see one or two of them walking in our direction, how do we know where their beliefs lie ? The more aggressive muslims will delight in the unease that they are creating in their communities but the passive muslims make zero efforts to mediate and "rat" out their muslims terrorists buddies which makes them as culpable imo.

As a western society we need to be more aggressive in taking back control of our own countries - even though I would class myself as non aggressive, I would be very comfortable with any form of retribution that is taken against the muslims. The one thing that I am absolutely 100% in favour of, is direct action being taken against the likes of isis in their own backyards - these terrorists claim to be willing to sacrifice their lives over here when they are bombing and shooting up the place, but would they be willing to sacrifice the lives of their families back home ? These people need to see that if they take innocent lives over here, then western forces are willing to bomb neighbourhoods in their countries regardless of the innocence or guilt of the victims.

Wow Augie, I agree with you word for word on most of your footy posts but tthat is so far out there.

I've done a little exercise with your post. Imagine it is the 70s

Getting back on point re events in Guildford and Birmingham, can I say that I agree with earlier suggestions that it is getting to the point where direct action needs to be taken against the Irish These fcukers are so fcuking arrogant and try and intimidate every Englishman. If these c.unts find England and it's moralities so offensive and disgusting, then why don't they fcuk back to whatever shithole they came from cos nobody would miss them that's for sure If peaceful irish catholics move into my country or your country or wherever, and they integrate themselves into local society whilst still remaining practicing catholics then I would have no problems with that - however moving into another country/society and expecting the "locals" to conform to their ideologies is unfcukingacceptable
For us "peaceful English", we are now in a real conundrum - we know that not all Irish are extremists, but when we see one or two of them walking in our direction, how do we know where their beliefs lie ? The more aggressive Irish will delight in the unease that they are creating in their communities but the passive Irish make zero efforts to mediate and "rat" out their catholic terrorists buddies which makes them as culpable imo.

As a western society we need to be more aggressive in taking back control of our own country - even though I would class myself as non aggressive, I would be very comfortable with any form of retribution that is taken against the catholics. The one thing that I am absolutely 100% in favour of, is direct action being taken against the likes of the IRA in their own backyards - these terrorists claim to be willing to sacrifice their lives over here when they are bombing and shooting up the place, but would they be willing to sacrifice the lives of their families back home ? These people need to see that if they take innocent lives over here, then British forces are willing to bomb neighbourhoods in Ireland regardless of the innocence or guilt of the victims.

Reads well doesn't it.

Excellent response to a fascist, racist post. You got there before me. I suspect Hitler used similar rhetoric regarding the Jews.

[augie]

Chippy I knew when I was posting that post that somebody would relate it to the Irish conflict with the English many moons ago

Let me first respond to your comparison with the ira -

1. that "war" had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with land/territory.
2. the Irish immigrants didn't try to intimidate the locals when they moved into an area
3. the Irish didn't find the English or American (or anywhere else they immigrated to) moralities offensive - we moved to countries where there was work and where its habits and lifestyles most resembled our own.

Thing is chippy, that the Irish suffered a load of abuse and prejudices in England back in the 60s, 70's and 80's - to some degree I can understand that some of that was down to fear on behalf of many English people and understandably so, but there is no way that the muslims would be subject to that treatment today and there is no way that they would tolerate it. The muslims don't, in my opinion at least, have any grounds for attacking innocent people at will like we have seen in the past few days

As I said already, a genuine, peaceful and hardworking muslim should be as welcome anywhere as their English, Irish or American counterpart so discriminating against different religions or races is not on my agenda and I find it amusing to be called facist and/or racist and comparing my comments to that of hitler is hilarious There is a huge difference between someone willing to use any means necessary in a defensive mode (which is what I suggested), than that of someone like hitler who aggressively used force to take over lands that belonged to other countries The muslim terrorists are actively going in search of conflict and I am very interested in hearing how yourself and Granada would solve this issue - I don't do politics and I am not a practicing catholic (although I'm not sure what I believe or don't believe ) so maybe diplomacy doesn't work well with me and if I offended anybody then I apologise