Arsenal FC, not PLC

[USMartin]

My bad

[QuartzGooner]

USMartin

Thanks for looking over the edits.

Would like to keep them short. Avoid talking about wage structure as none of us really know individual player's wages.

Taking into account your concerns, a combination of both our approaches is below.

Anyone, any thoughts please?


1.) We encourage the club to invest in quality players, to help win trophies. These players should reflect our high ticket prices and the increased revenues from our new stadium.

2.) We seek clarity over the club's youth policy, in particular pay rises for young players, which have increased the club's wage bill but not resulted in trophies.

3.) We fans want to win trophies, preferably with style. We respect the social obligations and wider business interests of the PLC, but are concerned that the football team winning trophies is no longer the PLC's main priority.

[USMartin]

The new Point 1 is excellent for again the shorter presentation though the Original was faily solid.

If we don't want to add the part abotu making the best possible effort (though thsat does need to be brought up somewhere along the line)there cool, but I do think they should be "record-high' or "historically high" revenues and ticket prices - drives our point home and will make summarily dismissing it harder to get away with .So iy you add either "record-high" or historically high', and its done for me.

The new Point 3 is excellent and serves us well if we do a flyer or handbill. I think the original version is fine for an officiall letter or a webpage like I said so keep that as well for that purpose, though I would run that by SteveO as that really was a concern of his as originally written I don't wish to usurp him or mis-represent his viewpoint in any way in producing this version I think his point I absolutely valid and needs to be addressed.

Like I say I like the flyer idea as we could possibly print those on a home PC for fairly little maybe of find someone who might be able to do them on the cheap, and that could while we still hone or message and how and when we shall present it drum up some instant support and interest.

As I said the origiinal points while they can be fine tuned would work well in a formal letter or on the homepage page of a website. I really think some sort of 1-page flyer with a bit of additonal info below the bullet points being written here is something we rally should consider. If someone can put a webpage together (not me - I can't paste the banner to my siggy ffs!) where those points can be expanded on (the home page could even be a draft of the letter to the club and/or media stating our pose and goals in detail.

[QuartzGooner]

Martin

Thanks again for looking them over.

I think we can leave out "record high/historically high" for now, simply because we mention "New stadium". Most fans know that the new stadium = much higher revenue etc.
The phrase "Record high" is an extrapolation on that, very useful for any meeting we might have with the club, or future literature.
i.e. "Dear Mr Gazidis, our revenues since moving to a new stadium are at a record high but the footballing records were made at the old stadium. Please explain the disparity."

Let's keep a bit of powder dry.

[USMartin]

On point 2, we don't know specifics but we do not its flat wage structure or if you prefer tightened. Dan Fismzan himself confirmed it

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 630035.ece

Our wage bill is very similar to Manchester United and substantially above Liverpool's – it's substantially below Chelsea's but that's expected. We pay good salaries and pay them probably more evenly so we have less of the extremes. There is an ethos of a team effort." - Dan Fiszman

It does need to shortened though in the way the other two points have been successfully

2.) We seek clarity over the club's youth policy and wage trsucture, in particular pay rises for young players, which have increased the club's wage bill possibly hindered our ability to sign better players to help win trophies

How is that? It's not ideal still lomgish but better. Think the wage structure has to mentioned here as the quality players being underpaid goes hand in hand with the youth players being overpaid.

[USMartin]

Martin

Thanks again for looking them over.

I think we can leave out "record high/historically high" for now, simply because we mention "New stadium". Most fans know that the new stadium = much higher revenue etc.
The phrase "Record high" is an extrapolation on that, very useful for any meeting we might have with the club, or future literature.
i.e. "Dear Mr Gazidis, our revenues since moving to a new stadium are at a record high but the footballing records were made at the old stadium. Please explain the disparity."

Let's keep a bit of powder dry.

See your point about keeping powder dry, and its a good - as i have said before a lot of what happens won't really happen until there is reaction from then Club and what happens than willd epend on that reaction as it is good to have some things ready for that, though i think in this case that wouldn't be giving too much away, just would serve to drive home the point that more can be done and that is all we are asking for.

Works either way here.

[Belfast Boy]

Would we have we any right to know more about the actual wage structure in place at the club, is there a formula linked to the 50% threshold to calculate it and keep it current or competitive and how an individual player is graded, and also how much money really is in the war chest???

Everyone knows about the famous conversation between AW and DF & PHW over dinner were they asked him what would he do if they gave him 30M and to their obvious delight his reply was "give it back" now that was fair enough if AW knew that it was money that the club didn't have but is this still the case???

Is AW really turning down surplus cash that he could've used when we reportedly had first refusal on for example Rafael van der Vaart for 8M because we already had Diaby, Denilson and Rosicky??? I'm all for stability, but players need the pressure of losing their 1st team place or their place at the club altogether to hit their peak and also to learn how to deal with pressure on the pitch as well - we are too nice!!!

AW's policy is that he "doesn't collect players" which again is fair enough as long as he's aware that leaves no room to carry passengers, IMO our first eleven is as good as anybody's but we don't see our strongest squad often enough due to seemingly evermore frequent injuries and our squad players are either plainly not good enough or are under performing!

Either way will AW or someone else (has to be AW tho) admit or realise we need a clear out which would provide even more cash and get proven players in to bolster the team, the squad and the overall morale at the club, because despite what AW sez when it comes to the crunch unless we are at absolute full strength the players clearly do NOT believe!

I know this is a bit long winded to add to the mission statement and some of it has probably already been covered but maybe with a bit of editing some of it would be useful as they are IMHO vital questions also.........

and for what it's worth, I too want AW to stay to rectify things as I can see what he is tryin to achieve and he is almost there, but the balance is definitely wrong, certainly for the premiership anways, to be great again he MUST change certain methods!

[USMartin]

It all comes back to this - hwo do you explain logically the shift between the Arsene Wenger of 1998-2005 who did in fact collect players and some pretty darned good ones, and the Arsene Wenger of 2006-now?

I for the record think that 100 million pound bit was to say the least a contrivance, very much along the lines of how you described it.

As to the specifics of the wage structure we know our wage bill though i can't recall the figure immediately (my bad) and that our highest paid player currently is Andriy Ashavin at 90K a week.

[DB10GOONER]

It all comes back to this - hwo do you explain logically the shift between the Arsene Wenger of 1998-2005 who did in fact collect players and some pretty darned good ones, and the Arsene Wenger of 2006-now?

Wenger was (rightly) praised for the inovations he brought with him (better fitness regimes, diets, training methods) and the type of midfielder (powerful, strong yet mobile) and striker (lightening fast, very fit but with excellent first touch) that he utilised. He was successful with that formula and alot of Engerlish teams copied all or parts of it. After winning two doubles and then the unbeaten PL he was proclaimed a genius with a magic touch, an inovator, and (most relevent) an ability to "create" superstars from unknown players.

He believes his own press. He decided he would reshape the game again by now utilising small framed, even more mobile players and tighter passing regimes, relying less on pacy box to box breaks. But he also decided to "create" a team of his own making in the entirity and mostly from unknowns that he had either discovered or "created". Unfortunately very few of the other Engerlish clubs (crucially none of the other "big 4" clubs) liked this idea and thus we have our light framed tippy tappy passy passy players that are very often outfought and out muscled.

[flash gunner]

It all comes back to this - hwo do you explain logically the shift between the Arsene Wenger of 1998-2005 who did in fact collect players and some pretty darned good ones, and the Arsene Wenger of 2006-now?

Wenger was (rightly) praised for the inovations he brought with him (better fitness regimes, diets, training methods) and the type of midfielder (powerful, strong yet mobile) and striker (lightening fast, very fit but with excellent first touch) that he utilised. He was successful with that formula and alot of Engerlish teams copied all or parts of it. After winning two doubles and then the unbeaten PL he was proclaimed a genius with a magic touch, an inovator, and (most relevent) an ability to "create" superstars from unknown players.

He believes his own press. He decided he would reshape the game again by now utilising small framed, even more mobile players and tighter passing regimes, relying less on pacy box to box breaks. But he also decided to "create" a team of his own making in the entirity and mostly from unknowns that he had either discovered or "created". Unfortunately very few of the other Engerlish clubs (crucially none of the other "big 4" clubs) liked this idea and thus we have our light framed tippy tappy passy passy players that are very often outfought and out muscled.

Spot on

[mikeyb772001]

It all comes back to this - hwo do you explain logically the shift between the Arsene Wenger of 1998-2005 who did in fact collect players and some pretty darned good ones, and the Arsene Wenger of 2006-now?

Wenger was (rightly) praised for the inovations he brought with him (better fitness regimes, diets, training methods) and the type of midfielder (powerful, strong yet mobile) and striker (lightening fast, very fit but with excellent first touch) that he utilised. He was successful with that formula and alot of Engerlish teams copied all or parts of it. After winning two doubles and then the unbeaten PL he was proclaimed a genius with a magic touch, an inovator, and (most relevent) an ability to "create" superstars from unknown players.

He believes his own press. He decided he would reshape the game again by now utilising small framed, even more mobile players and tighter passing regimes, relying less on pacy box to box breaks. But he also decided to "create" a team of his own making in the entirity and mostly from unknowns that he had either discovered or "created". Unfortunately very few of the other Engerlish clubs (crucially none of the other "big 4" clubs) liked this idea and thus we have our light framed tippy tappy passy passy players that are very often outfought and out muscled.

Spot on

GOOD POST DB10

And this is why we will never win anything with Wenger. Since 2005 its been like a new Manager not a trace of his old self.

[flash gunner]

It all comes back to this - hwo do you explain logically the shift between the Arsene Wenger of 1998-2005 who did in fact collect players and some pretty darned good ones, and the Arsene Wenger of 2006-now?

Wenger was (rightly) praised for the inovations he brought with him (better fitness regimes, diets, training methods) and the type of midfielder (powerful, strong yet mobile) and striker (lightening fast, very fit but with excellent first touch) that he utilised. He was successful with that formula and alot of Engerlish teams copied all or parts of it. After winning two doubles and then the unbeaten PL he was proclaimed a genius with a magic touch, an inovator, and (most relevent) an ability to "create" superstars from unknown players.

He believes his own press. He decided he would reshape the game again by now utilising small framed, even more mobile players and tighter passing regimes, relying less on pacy box to box breaks. But he also decided to "create" a team of his own making in the entirity and mostly from unknowns that he had either discovered or "created". Unfortunately very few of the other Engerlish clubs (crucially none of the other "big 4" clubs) liked this idea and thus we have our light framed tippy tappy passy passy players that are very often outfought and out muscled.

Spot on

GOOD POST DB10

And this is why we will never win anything with Wenger. Since 2005 its been like a new Manager not a trace of his old self.

and yet you back a movement that doesnt want to get rid of Wenger?

[mikeyb772001]

Arsenal fans are being hit with big ticket price increases - even though the club still refuse to splash out on players.

"It just seems a bit rich," said Wood, who runs Le Grove fans' website. "When you look at the cost of tickets compared to the number of trophies, then we must be the most expensive club in the world.

"It's a slap in the face for supporters. We would like to see a few more signings and yet they take the easiest, most unimaginative way of trying to make ends meet - just put up prices and make their supporters pay."

Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Fu ... z1GiO7D7O2
Sign up for MirrorFootball's Morning Spy newsletter Register here

Has anyone got in contact with Le Grove yet?

I can do that today if need be

[mikeyb772001]

It all comes back to this - hwo do you explain logically the shift between the Arsene Wenger of 1998-2005 who did in fact collect players and some pretty darned good ones, and the Arsene Wenger of 2006-now?

Wenger was (rightly) praised for the inovations he brought with him (better fitness regimes, diets, training methods) and the type of midfielder (powerful, strong yet mobile) and striker (lightening fast, very fit but with excellent first touch) that he utilised. He was successful with that formula and alot of Engerlish teams copied all or parts of it. After winning two doubles and then the unbeaten PL he was proclaimed a genius with a magic touch, an inovator, and (most relevent) an ability to "create" superstars from unknown players.

He believes his own press. He decided he would reshape the game again by now utilising small framed, even more mobile players and tighter passing regimes, relying less on pacy box to box breaks. But he also decided to "create" a team of his own making in the entirity and mostly from unknowns that he had either discovered or "created". Unfortunately very few of the other Engerlish clubs (crucially none of the other "big 4" clubs) liked this idea and thus we have our light framed tippy tappy passy passy players that are very often outfought and out muscled.

Spot on

GOOD POST DB10

And this is why we will never win anything with Wenger. Since 2005 its been like a new Manager not a trace of his old self.

and yet you back a movement that doesnt want to get rid of Wenger?

I AM BACKING IT BECAUSE there is no other way. Wanting Wenger out and protesting about is never going to work. Everyone knows how I feel about him and have done for some time. I make my feelings known not just on here but at every game I go to when it comes to the old one.

The next best thing to him being sacked is for cash to be spend on the team and this I can be part of.

If it was up to me it would be an all and out Wenger out or spend the cash protest. Simple to the point. But this would never work

[Arsenal 1991]

Arsenal fans are being hit with big ticket price increases - even though the club still refuse to splash out on players.

"It just seems a bit rich," said Wood, who runs Le Grove fans' website. "When you look at the cost of tickets compared to the number of trophies, then we must be the most expensive club in the world.

"It's a slap in the face for supporters. We would like to see a few more signings and yet they take the easiest, most unimaginative way of trying to make ends meet - just put up prices and make their supporters pay."

Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Fu ... z1GiO7D7O2
Sign up for MirrorFootball's Morning Spy newsletter Register here

Has anyone got in contact with Le Grove yet?

I can do that today if need be

We just need to agree on the aims, I think Quartz has got it nearly spot on but I don't think we should say we want to win trophies, it seems like we're being spoilt.

1.) We encourage the club to invest in quality players, to help win trophies. These players should reflect our high ticket prices and the increased revenues from our new stadium.

1.) To encourage the club to reinvest the very high and still increasing ticket prices in the playing squad so that it is of a standard that reflects this.

I still prefer the one above as I don't think we should be seen to be telling AW how to do his job.

2.) We seek clarity over the club's youth policy, in particular pay rises for young players, which have increased the club's wage bill considerably but not resulted in trophies.

3.) We seek to understand the PLC's longer term vision and strategy. We respect the social obligations and wider business interests of the PLC, but are concerned that the football team winning trophies is no longer the PLC's main priority.