THE WENGER THREAD

[Sean]

It's pretty cathartic to find some Gooners who aren't brainwashed AKBs and have some discussion on the realities of The Old Fraud's tenure

Having gone back to check a link I used as a source on TOF's salary a decade ago for my previous post; I realized the article foretold the horror of this wasted decade and it was all being put in place right there. In this article from September 2007, TOF signs a new £4M per year contract taking him up to 2011. Now, as has been said before, if 2004 made TOF God of the club, then 2007 formalized it after the sacking of David Dein. TOF has had ultimate power at Arsenal since then; ten years ago. Now it has been said by Alex Fynn and it's in his excellent book (that I frustratingly cannot find the patience to read), that when Dein was sacked TOF asked him if he should resign in sympathy. In this crucial moment, Dein said that TOF's resigning 'wouldn't be in Arsenal's best interests', which was fairly magnanimous of Dein seeing as he'd just been torn out of the club he loves.

After Dein's sacking, there was lots of speculation for months about TOF's future. Would he leave at the end of that season anyway? His contract was due to expire in 2008 before he signed again and took full power at the club. In that article, it had been made clear that the board were desperate for TOF to stay and would offer him anything to keep him sweet, seeing as they had sacked his friend and biggest ally at the club. They even made him a bust, thereby 'equalling' him with Herbert Chapman.

When TOF re-signed, he said:

"Arsenal is the club of my life. I have been entrusted with complete freedom to implement and execute my plans on what will make the team successful.

"That means I have a responsibility to the fans to deliver silverware and also a responsibility to the players to help turn our potential into prizes."

He actually said it! We already see there that TOF was planning his vanity projects and had the complete freedom - power - to do exactly what he wanted, leading to the shite we seen from 2008-11 and thereafter. He had zero accountability from that moment on. Sadly, TOF forgot the second part of his statement and we would go another seven years without a trophy; by then Citeh's oil money conveniently shifted the narrative a little further for TOF's benefit and he played the hell out of the stadium card and the austerity card. He hired Gazidis; Wiggy and Jabba bought into the club, then we trod water ever since.

TOF ultimately used his friend's removal to take absolute power for himself. He still sees Dein for dinner most weekends and yet even with his God-status at the club, TOF has never asked for Dein to come back, especially as most of the old guard on the board have now gone. I'm sure that Dein would only need to be asked, but the genie had come out of the bottle. TOF clearly enjoys the power he has at the club and obviously thinks he can get along just fine without Dein, who was the one who made him at Arsenal. The last ten years has proved that TOF is nothing without Dein.

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Page 2006. The year we lost our soul.

[Wilson]

Pep is like Wenger. Stubborn, arrogant, believe in themselves so much they will persist with their tactics despite constant set backs.

As for Pep's trophies, well he didnt do anything at Barcelona or Bayern that other managers didnt do. Enrique won the treble just like Pep, and Hyneckes won the CL which Pep never did. This says Pep wasnt that important to both clubs. Pep is being found out at Man City without the qaulty he enjoyed at Barce/Bayern. He either reinvents himself, or he flops around like a fish out of water like Wenger. You reckon Man City will put up with repetitive seasons even with 'Pep' as manager? No fuking way. Yet we Arsenal fans are expected to support Wenger's groundhog day fuck ups.

Isnt it amazing that pep's successes with barca, are constantly belittled with quips about the players he had available to him, but yet wenger is given great credit for the success he had with his early teams ?

Btw pep won 2 champs league's and (so far) Enrique has won only 1 - the credit Enrique has been given has come largely off the back of pep's all conquering teams

Barcelona were a CL winning team before Pep. Remember they won it with Rikjaard at our expense!!!

And I never said he wasnt a top manager. He clearly is to manage the caliber of players he managed at Barcelona and Bayern. But as I said, Barcelona have replicated the success they enjoyed under Pep, with Enrique as manager. Whilst at Bayern, Pep achieved less than Heyneckes, and Ancelotti will at the bare minimum match Pep domestic success, but could also go on and win the CL.

[NickF]

As good as Dein was with Wenger back in the day, that was a long time ago. He is now in his 70s so for me bringing him back is not the solution (certainly not long term).

I also can't forgive our board for selling out the club so virtually every share is now owned by 2 people.

[TeeCee]

A big problem at Arsenal is that the owner and virtually all of the board are not Arsenal 'fans'. They are businessmen. I know Usmanov is supposed to be a 'fan' but he seems happy to sit in the background making money on his shares. A club has to have ambition and Arsenal have none, apart from making itself commercially successful. If there is no desire to drive it forward on the pitch then the investment will simply not be made, hence we are where we are for the foreseeable future.

[supergeorgegraham]

I remember most people on here in 2007 saying they didn't want Usmanov. That turned out well. We all finally have a clearer view on the fact that Arsenal turned into a profit buisness at that time.
Funds were tight while the stadium got paid off and all Kroenke had to do was nothing at all. Whatever he paid for his shares has just rocketed and he let Wenger have total control because it makes good business sense.
Wenger had a job for life and apart from the last 3 years has never had to worry about taking the team to the stage where we challenge for the big trophies.
Arsenal are finished until the board actually love the club and want on field success.

[flash gunner]

Page 2006...... The beginning of the end

[StuartL]

As good as Dein was with Wenger back in the day, that was a long time ago. He is now in his 70s so for me bringing him back is not the solution (certainly not long term).

I also can't forgive our board for selling out the club so virtually every share is now owned by 2 people.

Our previous " custodians " certainly made a huge amount of money by selling us out to a guy who "shared their values" for the club going forward.
Ie don't put any money in,let the fans and tv money do the work while you sit back and take the dividends.

[augie]

A big problem at Arsenal is that the owner and virtually all of the board are not Arsenal 'fans'. They are businessmen. I know Usmanov is supposed to be a 'fan' but he seems happy to sit in the background making money on his shares. A club has to have ambition and Arsenal have none, apart from making itself commercially successful. If there is no desire to drive it forward on the pitch then the investment will simply not be made, hence we are where we are for the foreseeable future.

To date, unless I'm wrong, Usmanov hasn't and isn't making money on his shares - our club don't pay dividends so no shareholder gets anything for the investment. Of course if you are the majority shareholder, to side step the whole dividends issue, you just give yourself a £3m per season consultancy fee - as someone already said, unless he is advising the club on how best to be average, then his consultancy and advise is totally shit

[Herd]

£3 Million a year is peanuts and he could take much more out of the club if he wanted to ,the problem isn't Kroenke .
Ushmanov has been asking for dividends ,not sure if he's a fan he has his box but then again Gazprom have boxes at Chelsea .

[Theoperator]

No Divident Augie, but I assume that the share value is going up as the conglomerates and other sales continue.

I wonder though if the sales will keep continuing to rise? If we keep not winning anything much and the memories of our recent glories fade will new fans turn to other clubs? much as there a bulge of Leeds fans in their 60s and not many in their 20s, and Victims fans in their 40s and 50s lss so in their 20s and manure fans in their teens - young kids often support the teams excelling at the time

I know we have gone for the far East "Market" Will Asians take up the AFC are great mantra when we arent on the pitch like we were. Will football continue to be as popular as it is now even

[NickF]

No Divident Augie, but I assume that the share value is going up as the conglomerates and other sales continue.

Maybe I'm wrong but isn't the share value based largely on what Kroenke/Usmanov are prepared to pay for the very few remaining shares available?

[General]

Our ownership structure has morphed into the perfect gridlock and you never saw this coming 10years ago. Fiszman’s untimely death was the game changer as he was forced to offload his shares to Kroenke. I think he would’ve played the waiting game otherwise. Bracewell-Smith then followed suit and in my opinion landed the fatal blow . Hope she’s choking on her caviar in Monaco.

Dein being the forward thinker saw what lied ahead and by joining forces with Usmanov helped restore some of the imbalance and prevented Kroenke from having a total monopoly.

As for Usmanov he’s a football fan just like the Ruski and I’m sure enjoys banter with his mates about winning and all that.

No matter how you look at it, there is no way of untangling the current sorry mess until we drive the dinosaur out.

[sk-gtfo]

£3 Million a year is peanuts and he could take much more out of the club if he wanted to ,the problem isn't Kroenke .
Ushmanov has been asking for dividends ,not sure if he's a fan he has his box but then again Gazprom have boxes at Chelsea .

The problem is Kroenke, have you actually done any research on his US sports teams?. Usmanov never asked for dividends, I believe the question was something along the lines of was he against them and he said not if they are deserved.

If anyone seriously thinks Kroenke is a better choice than Usmanov, they need their head testing. The only reason he hasn't taken more than £3m is because there was a lot of moaning about it and he was testing the water, with the new TV money coming in on next years accounts he will be itching to take money, I hope he does as well so we can get a proper protest going against this rat.

I was Wenger out since 2008, very few believed me then, do we have to do another 9 years of Kroenke to see him for what he is as well?, I despair!.

[sk-gtfo]

http://news.arseblog.com/2017/03/primor ... of-leaving

“We understand how fans are not happy, neither are we. But as for critics, there are no less grateful persons in football than fans and ex-players."

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Depressing..

And as for being ungrateful, why don't you f**k off as well Boro, I wonder what you are paid to be another of Wenger's yes men?.

[StuartL]

http://news.arseblog.com/2017/03/primor ... of-leaving

“We understand how fans are not happy, neither are we. But as for critics, there are no less grateful persons in football than fans and ex-players."

-----------------

Depressing..

And as for being ungrateful, why don't you f**k off as well Boro, I wonder what you are paid to be another of Wenger's yes men?.

Has he been given permission to speak after 20 years of being mute ?

Talking about its not only results that matter but the business side too !
Tells you all about where the priority lies.

Wenger Out - take Boro with you.