THE WENGER THREAD

[Redarmy]

So whatever Usmanov actually says is lies and people can tell what he really would or wouldnt do?

Fuck me theres some crazy ass gooners out there who can read minds from thousands of miles away despite what people actually say.

Bottom line is it wont matter a fuck who is majority shareholder. If Wengers the manager we're goin nowhere.
I want my club to enable the manager to do his job with cash money and state of the art facilities and keep his nose out letting the manager manage. Wenger has had all that in spades for years and still failed.

I know who is fcuking our club over the most, and I have known it a lot longer than most people on here have, so don't go tarring me as someone who is trying to deflect blame away from wenker

I'm not a mind reader so I cant say for certain what usmanov's intentions would be, but it's funny that you can criticize me for believing that he would be driven by success but feel entitled to attach some blame to him for this malaise - the reality is that neither of us can know for certain what kind of owner he would be, cos at present he has absolutely NO SAY in the running of the club It really is shocking that a guy holding that many shares, hasn't even the authority to change the price of a match programme much less decide who is manager Usmanov is NOT part of the problem as things currently stand - there is zero respect between kroenke and usmanov (a widely accepted belief) and any criticism from usmanov would be more likely to entrench kroenke's stanch, than to change it, so why would he come out and make public demands for changes when it MIGHT be counter productive ? You also gotta remember that this is a guy that a few years had a group of di*kheads march against him without any cause whatsoever, so he really needs to be ultra vanilla until the day when he actually has some power to implement change, and then we will see what his intentions would be - as things stand he is the ONLY reason why kroenke isn't taking millions out of our club every season in dividends

If I have a criticism of usmanov, it is that he seems to be playing the long game and doesn't seem to be pushing enough for power - there was a guy on here a couple of years ago who was absolutely adamant that he was going to be aggressive and try to buy kroenke out, but sadly that has never happened On this occasion I am guilty for believing what I wanted to believe

Think thats the only way he can play it....just be respectful and wait for the right time.....as for that wanker Kronke he is a cancer on our great Club

Wenger...FFS where do you start the most despicable coniving scheming barstad who would make any political spin doctor think twice
Fucking involved in everything and fucking useless at everything....FUCK OFF NOW

[augie]

Even with standing all this talk of Kroenke. Wenger gets more financial support than Pochettino, Klopp, Simeone, Tuchel, and Allegri. Yet we are behind Liverpool and Spurs in the league, and our performance in Europe dont even compare to the level of Juventus, Borussia Dortmund and Atletico Madrid. Morever, Wenger cannot cite the 'resources' card ever again, when Ranieri pipped him to the league title with a team that cost less than Mesut Ozil.

Wenger is the biggest problem, not Kroenke.

And this is where 100% of the focus should be

For many years I have raged over a lack of quality recruitments in the transfer market, but the reality is that even with this squad, a top manager would perform much better - we have a squad that is vastly under-performing, and should be at least challenging for the premier league every season, and who certainly would not have allowed Leicester to win a league Financial resources and/or the size of the transfer kitty is not holding us back, but rather it is the complete lack of tactics, accountability and motivation that is killing our club, and that is down to the French cock and not any owner or board member

[NickF]

Can anyone honestly see Wiggy coughing up to put the club in a position to seriously challenge when he has never done it with any of his franchises in the past

The thing is Arsenal earn so much money he doesn't have to put his hand in his pocket (which was probable the appeal in the first place). Spend the money we bring in first. The problem is with that as we have seem, Wenger has spent an absolute fortune over the last few years and we have gone backwards. He has spent poorly. The player recruitment, coaching, team selection and tactics is down to one man only.

[General]

Even with standing all this talk of Kroenke. Wenger gets more financial support than Pochettino, Klopp, Simeone, Tuchel, and Allegri. Yet we are behind Liverpool and Spurs in the league, and our performance in Europe dont even compare to the level of Juventus, Borussia Dortmund and Atletico Madrid. Morever, Wenger cannot cite the 'resources' card ever again, when Ranieri pipped him to the league title with a team that cost less than Mesut Ozil.

I sometimes feel when we blame Kroenke, that it creates a window for Wenger lovers to shift the blame and excuse Wenger. I think Kroenke is an MBA type owner, and looks at the balance statement with more interes than the league table. But all the same time, its not like he is robbing the club, or tightening the purse strings. Wenger has spent 35m+ on 4 different players over the past years. Throw in your Welbeck's Chambers, Perez, Gabriel and its literally over 200m pounds in expenditure. Yet, here we are with a team that 'needs rebuilding'.

'Bully' from AFTV is always talking about Kroenke being the problem, and not so much Wenger. However that is pure dog shit. We could still be a winning club with Kroenke as owner. Is Usmanov came in, Wenger wouldnt all of a sudden develop tactical acumen. I would like Usmanov to come in, as he would demand higher standards, of which Wenger could be a casualty of when he cant perform. However, there is no reason why we cant be a top team with Kroenke as owner, and by blaming him for all our problems, it turns the attention away from Wenger, who is guilty of managerial malpractice and negligence.

Wenger is the biggest problem, not Kroenke.

I agree and this debate has been done ad finitum. As expected, some fans are now starting to shift the blame to the players yet we've seen different players come and go, and the fundamental issues remain the same.

Look at it from a different perspective, if Wenger had only been at this club for the past 3-4years, spent nearly £300m, presided over a high wage bill and delivered the results he has, a lot more fans would hold him accountable as they wouldn't have the emotional attachment borne out of achievements 13years ago.

This is not to say Kroenke isn't part of the problem. You can accuse him of lacking ambition and not putting pressure on Wenger but why would he when the business operation remains sound. He has released funds for transfers and does not meddle in our affairs. He is doing what most business men would do so could someone please clarify exactly what his crimes are. The fundamental issues we currently face are football related and are purely down to Wenger's incompetence. I challenge anyone to come up with an ownership structure/manager winning combination that inevitably doesn't involve the removal of the dinosaur.

[OneBardGooner]

So whatever Usmanov actually says is lies and people can tell what he really would or wouldnt do?

Fuck me theres some crazy ass gooners out there who can read minds from thousands of miles away despite what people actually say.

Bottom line is it wont matter a fuck who is majority shareholder. If Wengers the manager we're goin nowhere.
I want my club to enable the manager to do his job with cash money and state of the art facilities and keep his nose out letting the manager manage. Wenger has had all that in spades for years and still failed.

REAAAAALLLYYY!! Well I wish one of the *word censored*.s would tell us what wenger is thinking and what he has decided to do.

[armchair]

Even with standing all this talk of Kroenke. Wenger gets more financial support than Pochettino, Klopp, Simeone, Tuchel, and Allegri. Yet we are behind Liverpool and Spurs in the league, and our performance in Europe dont even compare to the level of Juventus, Borussia Dortmund and Atletico Madrid. Morever, Wenger cannot cite the 'resources' card ever again, when Ranieri pipped him to the league title with a team that cost less than Mesut Ozil.

Wenger is the biggest problem, not Kroenke.

And this is where 100% of the focus should be

For many years I have raged over a lack of quality recruitments in the transfer market, but the reality is that even with this squad, a top manager would perform much better - we have a squad that is vastly under-performing, and should be at least challenging for the premier league every season, and who certainly would not have allowed Leicester to win a league Financial resources and/or the size of the transfer kitty is not holding us back, but rather it is the complete lack of tactics, accountability and motivation that is killing our club, and that is down to the French cock and not any owner or board member

Thats exactly it. Kroenke has made untold riches available to Wenger. Facilities and resources befitting of the biggest club in a metropolitan capital city.
Fact is Wenger has been there longer than anyone. Hes is a defacto board member and has caused a rift, not only among fans but in the boardroom too. He really is a divisive figure, destroying us.
His acceptance of mediocrity, rewarding failure, comfort-zone culture has infested the club from top to bottom.
His target is top 4. Not Kroenke, Gazidis or anyone else. He decides who comes, who goes and how much they're paid.
Hed supposed to be the football man who loves Arsenal, Not Kroenke. Its his oncompetence that has cost us points, games, trophys.

All the necessary material ingredients are in place at Arsenal for a new manager. Its the attitude, belief and honesty that needs changing.
A new manager with tactics, new staff, coaching methods, medical could bring a new lease of life to the club.
People underestimate the difference to the whole club a change of manager would bring. Right throughout the club. Everybody would buck their ideas up.

When were actually competing nobody would care if its Kroenke or Usmanov who is majority shareholder

[OneBardGooner]

I think Gunner Muzz is coming in for some unfair crtitcism here.
Yes of course Wenger is the biggest problem and has been stinking the place out for years. However as Gunner Muzz points out this would simply not be tolerated at any other "big" club!

The longer Wenger is tolerated, yes the bigger problems he creates at Arsenal BUT at the same time the more the owner and his bunch of cronies are exposed as the clueless individuals that they are. This does suggest at further problems further down the line...

For Arsenal to achieve success again in the future it will take a bit more than the appointment of a competent manager - everyone at the club will have to pull in the same direction to achieve that.

Kroenke is no Abramhovic, he is a leech sucking Arsenal dry. Yes get rid of Wenger but that will not solve all problems, and that is becoming increasingly obvious.

First we get rid of wenger - then we go after wiggy and the board - the problem with that is that he rarely attends games; he's too busy counting his money in sunny climes - it will take a significant decrease in the clubs finances before he even looks up from his morning paper.

Sorry guys not wishing to be negative or preempt doom & gloom, but the cun.t is untouchable in the everyday sense of the term.


Does he ever go anywhere near a grassy knoll?

[OneBardGooner]

Even with standing all this talk of Kroenke. Wenger gets more financial support than Pochettino, Klopp, Simeone, Tuchel, and Allegri. Yet we are behind Liverpool and Spurs in the league, and our performance in Europe dont even compare to the level of Juventus, Borussia Dortmund and Atletico Madrid. Morever, Wenger cannot cite the 'resources' card ever again, when Ranieri pipped him to the league title with a team that cost less than Mesut Ozil.

Wenger is the biggest problem, not Kroenke.

And this is where 100% of the focus should be

For many years I have raged over a lack of quality recruitments in the transfer market, but the reality is that even with this squad, a top manager would perform much better - we have a squad that is vastly under-performing, and should be at least challenging for the premier league every season, and who certainly would not have allowed Leicester to win a league Financial resources and/or the size of the transfer kitty is not holding us back, but rather it is the complete lack of tactics, accountability and motivation that is killing our club, and that is down to the French cock and not any owner or board member

Thats exactly it. Kroenke has made untold riches available to Wenger. Facilities and resources befitting of the biggest club in a metropolitan capital city.
Fact is Wenger has been there longer than anyone. Hes is a defacto board member and has caused a rift, not only among fans but in the boardroom too. He really is a divisive figure, destroying us.
His acceptance of mediocrity, rewarding failure, comfort-zone culture has infested the club from top to bottom.
His target is top 4. Not Kroenke, Gazidis or anyone else. He decides who comes, who goes and how much they're paid.
Hed supposed to be the football man who loves Arsenal, Not Kroenke. Its his oncompetence that has cost us points, games, trophys.

All the necessary material ingredients are in place at Arsenal for a new manager. Its the attitude, belief and honesty that needs changing.
A new manager with tactics, new staff, coaching methods, medical could bring a new lease of life to the club.
People underestimate the difference to the whole club a change of manager would bring. Right throughout the club. Everybody would buck their ideas up.

When were actually competing nobody would care if its Kroenke or Usmanov who is majority shareholder

Football is like any other product in a business sense - The more success you have the more money you make - BUT in order to get that success started you have to invest - It's that old adage 'To Accumulate One Has to Speculate' AND get the right person to Speculate - spend the money correctly & wisely. Which is why having people own and run the club who know nothing about football adds to the problem.

#wengerout

[General]

For Arsenal to achieve success again in the future it will take a bit more than the appointment of a competent manager - everyone at the club will have to pull in the same direction to achieve that.

Kroenke is no Abramhovic, he is a leech sucking Arsenal dry. Yes get rid of Wenger but that will not solve all problems, and that is becoming increasingly obvious.

I don't think anyone is under any illusion that the removal of Wenger alone would solve all our problems. It's an immediate requisite for change that we can't hide from just because there are further obstacles downstream. This goes with the careful what you wish for and who would you replace the dinosaur with arguments. Meanwhile we are languishing in 7th behind teams with half our budget.

[northbank123]

Can anyone honestly see Wiggy coughing up to put the club in a position to seriously challenge when he has never done it with any of his franchises in the past

The thing is Arsenal earn so much money he doesn't have to put his hand in his pocket (which was probable the appeal in the first place). Spend the money we bring in first. The problem is with that as we have seem, Wenger has spent an absolute fortune over the last few years and we have gone backwards. He has spent poorly. The player recruitment, coaching, team selection and tactics is down to one man only.

We don't need an owner who pumps in his own money. We earn an absolute fucking fortune and are easily in a position to compete domestically and long-term in Europe, although that is a way off for any of the English clubs at the moment.

We just need an owner who doesn't foster a culture of stockpiling as much cash as people and holds the manager accountable for results. So basically any other owner around.

Sadly there is absolutely zero incentive for him to sell up. Owning a PL club in the modern age is like sitting on a golden egg, and the capital value of his investment is only going one way. Our fans can't even rouse a coherent complaint against the manager who has arrogantly presided over us not competing for a decade, no danger at all of organising the sort of protests that might make a bloke sat 3000 miles away counting his cash think about throwing in the towel.

The only thing that will make him sell up is somebody offering him a big premium for his shares.

[armchair]

We just need an owner who doesn't foster a culture of stockpiling as much cash as people and holds the manager accountable for results. So basically any other owner around.

What about an owner who could take as much as he wants from the clubs profits but instead takes £3mil pa as far as Im aware.
Or an owner who could deny Wenger sufficient funds for transfers, wages, facilities etc....?
He has invested hugely in Arsenal and thats exactly what it is to him - an investment.
I think people forget Kroenkes is an investor not a fan. Hes in it to get a return on the shares he bought.

Wenger on the other hand is absolutely robbing the club of £8mil pa and sneering at us and insulting us while destroying us from the inside.
Not to mention the money hes wasting and pissing up against the wall on his failed socialist wage policy.

[armchair]

Kroenke is no Abramhovic, he is a leech sucking Arsenal dry.

See I dont see the evidence of this. He takes £3mil from the club and lets Wenger get on with it. Hes never refused Wenger any money. I honestly dont understand how that equates to "sucking Arsenal dry"?

No doubt we beat Boro you'll be telling us "Wenger has proved us all wrong" again eh mate?

[augie]

We just need an owner who doesn't foster a culture of stockpiling as much cash as people and holds the manager accountable for results. So basically any other owner around.

What about an owner who could take as much as he wants from the clubs profits but instead takes £3mil pa as far as Im aware.
Or an owner who could deny Wenger sufficient funds for transfers, wages, facilities etc....?
He has invested hugely in Arsenal and thats exactly what it is to him - an investment.
I think people forget Kroenkes is an investor not a fan. Hes in it to get a return on the shares he bought.

Wenger on the other hand is absolutely robbing the club of £8mil pa and sneering at us and insulting us while destroying us from the inside.
Not to mention the money hes wasting and pissing up against the wall on his failed socialist wage policy.

See there is a myth that kroenke is bleeding the club dry - I'm not a fan of his at all (and wish he would fcuk off out of our club), but the reality is that he is only taking £3m per season from the club. Yes he would probably take more through dividends if he wouldn't have to pay dividends to usmanov too, but to make serious money from our club, he would have to sell up all his shares and sadly that doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon Granted stockpiling money in the club will add to the value of the club and thus increase the value of his shares, but again he only profits from that if he sell's and he has done and said nothing to suggest that he is gonna sell.

As you correctly point out, the senile French cock is coining £5.5m per season more than kroenke at the mo, and fools like bully on aftv would do well to recognize that. As much of a cuntbag owner kroenke is, the only part of blame for this malaise that can be attributed to him at the mo, is that he hasn't reigned in wenger and held him accountable

[Babu]

See there is a myth that kroenke is bleeding the club dry - I'm not a fan of his at all (and wish he would fcuk off out of our club), but the reality is that he is only taking £3m per season from the club.

He's actually not even doing that anymore.

That has definitely stopped.

[armchair]

Its just so lazy and easy to spuot nonsense like "Kroenke is bleeding the club dry" . Hes not.
Wenger has had everything a manager needs to compete. Wenger has failed catastrophically.

Similairly when Gazidis was getting stick people were digging him out unfairly imo. Hes actually the one who has contradicted Wenger and come out publicly and let everyone know theres money available. I've often said on here that Gazidis is key to getting Wenger Out.

Its the same type of ill-informed bullshit that AKBs love to defend Wenger with and deflect the blame onto someone else. Remember "the board is witholding funds" or "Wengers hands are tied"?

Its this type of made-up crap that Wenger and the apoligists love cause it muddys the water and takes the heat off.