STOKE CITY THREAD

[ThomasMitchell]

same old Arsenal..............

Anybody catch match of the day yesterday ? specifically the West Ham v Blackburn game ? Samba stopped almost everything West Ham could muster, he would make a huge difference to our team with physical presence, arial ability both attacking and defensive and he is willing to throw himself into a block for a club that are struggling to stay up.
Just think what he might do to win a cup / league ?



Heart, desire, guts, passion, will to win, never say die,

Yes but can he make a pointless sideways pass on the edge of the opposition box and throw away a lead late on in the game?

[SteveO 35]

Martin - when we won the League at Anfield in '89, Tony Adams was 22 years old, Winterburn and Dixon 25, and Steve Bould 26 - hardly veterans of the game. Only David O'Leary had veteran status back then but the defence was not being built around him. Those players went to Anfield and numerous other places that year and gave a perfect lesson in the art of defending and not at the expense of attacking flair either - Rocastle, Marwood, Merson etc were all expansive footballers.

Today's defenders were Sagna 28, Gibbs 21 (but so often this year has been Clichy 25), Koscielny 25 and Djourou 24; so not much difference in pure AGE terms. We also have Squillaci at 30 years old, compared with O'Leary who had just turned 31 when we won the League at Anfield.

I take some of your points on board but surely if the defenders are more inexperienced that should only emphasise the need for more focus on defensive coaching. Please - read that book. You can not fail to be impressed at the attention to detail with defending.

And those were players that we had signed from the likes of Stoke City and Wimbledon back then; not major signings costing millions.

A lot of your points about the board are valid but you simply have to stop allowing them as a 'catch all' for everything that is wrong. There was a simple statistic read out today about Arsenal conceding a higher percentage of goals than any other team in the Premiership (from set plays). That is not an accident or a measure of the fact that everyone else has a wonderful board; it is a shocking fact that despite our plentiful wage bill and extensive coaching team that we simply do not know how to defend properly.

Sorry but I think that is a poor comparison given that Djourou has about two seasons total featuring defence, and before this year Koscielny had one year's experiecne at the top flight. By the same token Tony Adams captained our team at 19. If you are good enough and tough enough and smart enough you are old enough. after all. Add in Gibbs who has never featured regularly for any period of time, amnd Szczesny whose sum epxerience till December was at Brentford FC, and in front of them Song whose only got three years in his role and is not the best at ti now even as he lstill learns it, Ramsey out a year and in his late teems still and Wilshere a wonderful prospect who will come good but still has to, and you have so many opportunities to fail to anticipate what is happening its terrifying and only two or three such moments can turn a match and even a season.

Even the best and most experienced players will switch off or not switch on at times, but usually they have the ability to, overcome that and the experience to minimize its occurence because it can happen a dozen times a match if you let it, and too many of these players are so inexperienced that they do. A manager can't think for a player on the pitch . You wonder if they have the intellignce in footballing terms or the personality to use it sometimes really.

I would normally let stuff like this go and I certainly don't intend to carry on this debate after this post but frankly Martin you are not playing ball here.

Sagna has been here for 4 years, Clichy for 7. Lee Dixon and Nigel Winterburn joined Arsenal in 1988 and 1987 before winning the title in 1989; prior to that they were journeymen full backs that had spent the majority of their careers outside the top flight. So please don't play the lack of experience card - it simply isn't true. You seem able to justify Song still learining his trade after 3 years in a role; these guys were taking over Liverpool's invincible mantle and winning titles in less than that time.

Steve Bould joined Arsenal in 1988 also having spent the majority of his career outside the top flight. Johan Djourou has been here since 2004, supposedly learning from the likes of Campbell, spent a year at Birmingham and has had an intermittent career since then. I admit his injuries have disrupted his progress but he's not a baby anymore. What the hell was he doing for that 3rd goal today; honestly that was the sort of defending I occasionally see in the Blue Square South

If Arsene Wenger decided to 'invest' the small matter of €8m-€10m on a player that has spent his career kicking about in Ligue 2 then that is not the board's problem. He could easily have recruited a decent PL centre half for that fee (Cahill cost Bolton £4.5m, Huth about the same for Stoke). Heaven forbid; he could even try looking in the Championship as Graham once did. But no - his policy is French first, anywhere else 'cheap' second and English last.

Facts

George Graham built a defence on a shoestring budget

Three of the regular players in that defence had a maximum of 2 years top flight experience when they won it

Arsenal could not afford the top players back then either


Honestly Martin I implore you - read the book. Six versus four drills day in day out, repeated offside drills so that it happened naturally. Set pieces for and against - day in, day out. Watch the videos of how we used to score goals regularly from set plays (something we now seem to think is beneath us and only befitting of clubs like Stoke). Accept that there are coaches in world football that can produce better defences that Wenger can on comparable or smaller budgets and leave it there please

BTW - the Board are still *word censored*

Its good night from me.....

[Nos89]

The teams was hapless today. How many times did they miss control it, step on the ball when in dangerous areas? Even Jack and RVP did it almost within the same 2 minutes. They never won a 2nd ball in the entire 2nd half.
From stoke's kick off after we scored I could just see them scoring, not one of our players made a challenge, they just stood and watched. If you dare watch it again, Chamakh should have challenged their player who hoofed it into our box, he just stared at him. Our captain should've been shouting at the players, geeing them up to keep their focus but as usual it was totally absent.
Stoke will win the FA Cup if they play like that against citeh. Highlight of the day NB52 tackle on Pennant. He should've got a straight red for that. Stupid twat. Just showed how inept he is as a player.

[franksav63]

Martin - when we won the League at Anfield in '89, Tony Adams was 22 years old, Winterburn and Dixon 25, and Steve Bould 26 - hardly veterans of the game. Only David O'Leary had veteran status back then but the defence was not being built around him. Those players went to Anfield and numerous other places that year and gave a perfect lesson in the art of defending and not at the expense of attacking flair either - Rocastle, Marwood, Merson etc were all expansive footballers.

Today's defenders were Sagna 28, Gibbs 21 (but so often this year has been Clichy 25), Koscielny 25 and Djourou 24; so not much difference in pure AGE terms. We also have Squillaci at 30 years old, compared with O'Leary who had just turned 31 when we won the League at Anfield.

I take some of your points on board but surely if the defenders are more inexperienced that should only emphasise the need for more focus on defensive coaching. Please - read that book. You can not fail to be impressed at the attention to detail with defending.

And those were players that we had signed from the likes of Stoke City and Wimbledon back then; not major signings costing millions.

A lot of your points about the board are valid but you simply have to stop allowing them as a 'catch all' for everything that is wrong. There was a simple statistic read out today about Arsenal conceding a higher percentage of goals than any other team in the Premiership (from set plays). That is not an accident or a measure of the fact that everyone else has a wonderful board; it is a shocking fact that despite our plentiful wage bill and extensive coaching team that we simply do not know how to defend properly.

Sorry but I think that is a poor comparison given that Djourou has about two seasons total featuring defence, and before this year Koscielny had one year's experiecne at the top flight. By the same token Tony Adams captained our team at 19. If you are good enough and tough enough and smart enough you are old enough. after all. Add in Gibbs who has never featured regularly for any period of time, amnd Szczesny whose sum epxerience till December was at Brentford FC, and in front of them Song whose only got three years in his role and is not the best at ti now even as he lstill learns it, Ramsey out a year and in his late teems still and Wilshere a wonderful prospect who will come good but still has to, and you have so many opportunities to fail to anticipate what is happening its terrifying and only two or three such moments can turn a match and even a season.

Even the best and most experienced players will switch off or not switch on at times, but usually they have the ability to, overcome that and the experience to minimize its occurence because it can happen a dozen times a match if you let it, and too many of these players are so inexperienced that they do. A manager can't think for a player on the pitch . You wonder if they have the intellignce in footballing terms or the personality to use it sometimes really.

I would normally let stuff like this go and I certainly don't intend to carry on this debate after this post but frankly Martin you are not playing ball here.

Sagna has been here for 4 years, Clichy for 7. Lee Dixon and Nigel Winterburn joined Arsenal in 1988 and 1987 before winning the title in 1989; prior to that they were journeymen full backs that had spent the majority of their careers outside the top flight. So please don't play the lack of experience card - it simply isn't true. You seem able to justify Song still learining his trade after 3 years in a role; these guys were taking over Liverpool's invincible mantle and winning titles in less than that time.

Steve Bould joined Arsenal in 1988 also having spent the majority of his career outside the top flight. Johan Djourou has been here since 2004, supposedly learning from the likes of Campbell, spent a year at Birmingham and has had an intermittent career since then. I admit his injuries have disrupted his progress but he's not a baby anymore. What the hell was he doing for that 3rd goal today; honestly that was the sort of defending I occasionally see in the Blue Square South

If Arsene Wenger decided to 'invest' the small matter of €8m-€10m on a player that has spent his career kicking about in Ligue 2 then that is not the board's problem. He could easily have recruited a decent PL centre half for that fee (Cahill cost Bolton £4.5m, Huth about the same for Stoke). Heaven forbid; he could even try looking in the Championship as Graham once did. But no - his policy is French first, anywhere else 'cheap' second and English last.

Facts

George Graham built a defence on a shoestring budget

Three of the regular players in that defence had a maximum of 2 years top flight experience when they won it

Arsenal could not afford the top players back then either


Honestly Martin I implore you - read the book. Six versus four drills day in day out, repeated offside drills so that it happened naturally. Set pieces for and against - day in, day out. Watch the videos of how we used to score goals regularly from set plays (something we now seem to think is beneath us and only befitting of clubs like Stoke). Accept that there are coaches in world football that can produce better defences that Wenger can on comparable or smaller budgets and leave it there please

BTW - the Board are still c**ts

Its good night from me.....

Well said Steveo... and what was Kos doing for their first Stoke goal today???

He moved away to the opposite side that he should have gone in a bottling action, why can't our centre halfs charge or block the ball???

[ThomasMitchell]

Theo was woeful again today, yet we kid ourselves into believing he is quality. Simply not good enough. Not a winner and a shadow of players like Pires, Freddie etc. Heaven help us if we have to endure him for the next 5+ years.

[franksav63]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

[Dan_85]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

Same old shit where I was. Everyone seemingly happy, applauding them off, kids fighting for Jack's shirt. What's the other reports? Did they get a barracking off some others?

[franksav63]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

Same old shit where I was. Everyone seemingly happy, applauding them off, kids fighting for Jack's shirt. What's the other reports? Did they get a barracking off some others?

Thomas Mitchell on the previous page said the players and Wenger were getting 'stick' at the end of the game??

[Henry Norris 1913]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

everyone was understandably abject and frustrated with the team and I heard a lot of comments about Theo. We gave the lads a great reception after the game . RVP's name was sung and he gave a lot of respect to us unlike some who didn't want to make eye contact.

BTW did anyone meet the 100 stoke "fans" on the overpass on the m6 who just lined up to give us abuse? our lot just laughed. quite nice to get so much attention

[1886]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

Same old shit where I was. Everyone seemingly happy, applauding them off, kids fighting for Jack's shirt. What's the other reports? Did they get a barracking off some others?

It was all applause where I was in block 38, suprised that 'one arsene wenger' didn't start up

[ThomasMitchell]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

Same old shit where I was. Everyone seemingly happy, applauding them off, kids fighting for Jack's shirt. What's the other reports? Did they get a barracking off some others?

Thomas Mitchell on the previous page said the players were getting 'terrible stick'??

Where I was there were certainly people giving them stick - but of course more were applauding and waving. Same old same old.

[Dan_85]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

Same old shit where I was. Everyone seemingly happy, applauding them off, kids fighting for Jack's shirt. What's the other reports? Did they get a barracking off some others?

It was all applause where I was in block 38, suprised that 'one arsene wenger' didn't start up

I was near the front of 38, it was a complete joke. You'd think we'd just thumped them 5-0.

[franksav63]

Oh... just the same then...

Oh hum, still again fair play to you all for going, my patience with this bottling lot was done for the final time up at Newcastle.

[franksav63]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

everyone was understandably abject and frustrated with the team and I heard a lot of comments about Theo. We gave the lads a great reception after the game . RVP's name was sung and he gave a lot of respect to us unlike some who didn't want to make eye contact.

BTW did anyone meet the 100 stoke "fans" on the overpass on the m6 who just lined up to give us abuse? our lot just laughed. quite nice to get so much attention

They really do have an issue with us don't they... fucking inbred scum that they are!!

[1886]

Fair play to all the fans who went up there today, but there's a couple of differing views on how the players were acknowledged at the end of the game, can anyone else shed any light on the mood of our fans at the end of game???

everyone was understandably abject and frustrated with the team and I heard a lot of comments about Theo. We gave the lads a great reception after the game . RVP's name was sung and he gave a lot of respect to us unlike some who didn't want to make eye contact.

BTW did anyone meet the 100 stoke "fans" on the overpass on the m6 who just lined up to give us abuse? our lot just laughed. quite nice to get so much attention

Yeah I saw that. I wonder if they genuinly thought they were winding people up, most of our coach had a good laugh at them.