As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
augie wrote:Re the captaincy issue, I do think that it was very noticable how it was arteta that took the lead role in calming podolski down last night when he was having the argument with the referee. I dont have a personal issue with tv being captain as such but if it is a cause in his slide in performances then it should be taken from his as much for his own sake as the team's - some people dont like the responsibility of being captain and prefer to lead by example instead and there is no shame in that but being an actual captain nowdays carries a lot more responsibility than that.
Not sure why everyone seems to think it's down to him being given the captaincy. I think it's more or less just a simple case of him playing shite tbh.
I do think his playing style isn't necessarily suited to being captain though – more so for how that impacts the rest of the team than his own performances. As much as we all love his commitment, in all the time he's been here he seems to play every minute of every single game "on the edge." Everything he does has the air of last ditch. It's as if the world's about to end in 5 minutes & only Tommy V can save the day. If that's who the players are supposed to look to for guidance or to take their lead from then that can only induce a sense of unnecessary panic surely. Leadership is as much about showing calmness & reassuring composure under pressure as it is trying to run through a concrete wall like Eboue on a sugar rush. Arteta definitely would have made a more suitable captain imo, but if he's stepping up to the plate regardless of whether he has the armband or not (which experienced players should do anyway, imo) then I see that as a good thing. "Eleven captains on the pitch" and all that guff.
augie wrote:Re the captaincy issue, I do think that it was very noticable how it was arteta that took the lead role in calming podolski down last night when he was having the argument with the referee. I dont have a personal issue with tv being captain as such but if it is a cause in his slide in performances then it should be taken from his as much for his own sake as the team's - some people dont like the responsibility of being captain and prefer to lead by example instead and there is no shame in that but being an actual captain nowdays carries a lot more responsibility than that.
Not sure why everyone seems to think it's down to him being given the captaincy. I think it's more or less just a simple case of him playing shite tbh.
I do think his playing style isn't necessarily suited to being captain though – more so for how that impacts the rest of the team than his own performances. As much as we all love his commitment, in all the time he's been here he seems to play every minute of every single game "on the edge." Everything he does has the air of last ditch. It's as if the world's about to end in 5 minutes & only Tommy V can save the day. If that's who the players are supposed to look to for guidance or to take their lead from then that can only induce a sense of unnecessary panic surely. Leadership is as much about showing calmness & reassuring composure under pressure as it is trying to run through a concrete wall like Eboue on a sugar rush. Arteta definitely would have made a more suitable captain imo, but if he's stepping up to the plate regardless of whether he has the armband or not (which experienced players should do anyway, imo) then I see that as a good thing. "Eleven captains on the pitch" and all that guff.
God help us all when Arteta gets injured.
Areta missed 8 games last season in which we drew 3 and lost 5
kiwomya wrote:The team we put out last night looked excellent......on paper. Keeper and left back aside, I don't think it's far short of our current best 11.
The actual performances are a different story. We all have players we favor but Sagna was poor and I don't know what's up with Vermaelen at the moment - this coming from two of our apparent "best players".
Wenger takes a lot of the blame but you can't get away from the fact that these players aren't all pulling their weight. A few of the players ahve come back from injury etc but at one point or another you have to look at the actual team and point the finger.
I see your point, mate - but isn’t that a bit like closing the gate after the horse has bolted?
Yes they are poor on the pitch and underperforming. But who puts those underperforming players on the pitch? Who persists with them year after year? Who gives them improved contracts and pay rises despite them underperforming? Yes the players are partly to blame but the majority of the blame must fall with the manager that selects them and also fails to motivate/inspire/direct them.
I don't think, in my opinion, that argument applies given the 11 we had last night. Half the team only really started this season! - Cazorla, Podolski, Wilshire, Mannone & Giroud. Mannone probably being our best player last night.
Would you not have offered contracts to Vermaelen and Kos? What about Sagna?
kiwomya wrote:The team we put out last night looked excellent......on paper. Keeper and left back aside, I don't think it's far short of our current best 11.
The actual performances are a different story. We all have players we favor but Sagna was poor and I don't know what's up with Vermaelen at the moment - this coming from two of our apparent "best players".
Wenger takes a lot of the blame but you can't get away from the fact that these players aren't all pulling their weight. A few of the players ahve come back from injury etc but at one point or another you have to look at the actual team and point the finger.
I see your point, mate - but isn’t that a bit like closing the gate after the horse has bolted?
Yes they are poor on the pitch and underperforming. But who puts those underperforming players on the pitch? Who persists with them year after year? Who gives them improved contracts and pay rises despite them underperforming? Yes the players are partly to blame but the majority of the blame must fall with the manager that selects them and also fails to motivate/inspire/direct them.
I don't think, in my opinion, that argument applies given the 11 we had last night. Half the team only really started this season! - Cazorla, Podolski, Wilshire, Mannone & Giroud. Mannone probably being our best player last night.
Would you not have offered contracts to Vermaelen and Kos? What about Sagna?
I was using the contract analagy to demonstrate that these failures are not a first, there is a history of poor choices regarding players with Wenger (both contract-wise and selection-wise) and thus he is to blame for the failures on the pitch, not the players par se (although they aren't blameless either). To be honest last night was a bit more about his failure to motivate/inspire/direct the players rather than his giving extended contracts and pay rises to shit players.
Also, TV5 is off form, Pod and Santi are knackered (looking anyway) so whilst they are good players they are not playing well at the moment but Wenger still plays them every game in the PL and CL. He still persists with Santos too even though he is appallingly bad and overweight !
Nearly hit somebody today who was bemused as to why I was pissed off at Schalke game because a point out there is a good result, especially after the weekend
northbank123 wrote:[b]Nearly hit somebody today [/b]who was bemused as to why I was pissed off at Schalke game because a point out there is a good result, especially after the weekend
Just back. Didn't have the benefit of TV replays, but I think most people there would have been with Wenger re-giving grief to the 4th official.
There were 2 mins injury time at the end of the first half, but it seemed to me like they scored their match changing first goal in the 4th...? No? And wasn't there a foul that went unpunished in the build up to their equaliser? And didn't the ref stop play just at the moment we were about to pull the trigger because one of their players was down in the box? I don't begrudge Schalke the draw (they probably deserved the win), but didn't most of the key decisions go against us...?
I also think most people out there last night - despite being disappointed we'd lost a two goal lead - were pleased with our performance. Certainly more so than the esteemed posters on here from my brief look at it.
Have to say that we loved Germany. Friendly, noisy fans. Bit strange to share the concourse with the opposition and having Schalke fans walk through us to get to their seats. Very friendly lot though. Would love to get Dortmund in the knock outs (assuming we beat Montpellier and Schalke beat Olympiakos).
Pleased as well to meet Poldi (or at least it was one of our Cologne based fans) in the ground, have our flag share a spot next to the Russian speaking gooners and also meet the fledgling "Costa Del Sol Gooners" on the tram afterwards.
Also, did anyone else not get an away match credit voucher on the way into the ground...? I didn't meet anyone who did get one?
MK Gould wrote:Just back. Didn't have the benefit of TV replays, but I think most people there would have been with Wenger re-giving grief to the 4th official.
There were 2 mins injury time at the end of the first half, but it seemed to me like they scored their match changing first goal in the 4th...? No? And wasn't there a foul that went unpunished in the build up to their equaliser? And didn't the ref stop play just at the moment we were about to pull the trigger because one of their players was down in the box? I don't begrudge Schalke the draw (they probably deserved the win), but didn't most of the key decisions go against us...?
I also think most people out there last night - despite being disappointed we'd lost a two goal lead - were pleased with our performance. Certainly more so than the esteemed posters on here from my brief look at it.
Have to say that we loved Germany. Friendly, noisy fans. Bit strange to share the concourse with the opposition and having Schalke fans walk through us to get to their seats. Very friendly lot though. Would love to get Dortmund in the knock outs (assuming we beat Montpellier and Schalke beat Olympiakos).
Pleased as well to meet Poldi (or at least it was one of our Cologne based fans) in the ground, have our flag share a spot next to the Russian speaking gooners and also meet the fledgling "Costa Del Sol Gooners" on the tram afterwards.
Also, did anyone else not get an away match credit voucher on the way into the ground...? I didn't meet anyone who did get one?
BBC say their first goal was scored at 46 mins 28 secs, so maybe it just seemed longer at the time..... !
And the away match credit for Schalke has been added manually, so they must have decided against handing out the vouchers.
Forgot to say as well, what is the name of the guy who sells the gooner under the railway bridge on Hornsey Road? Delighted to see him selling the gooner and up the arse at the tram station in Schalke. Prompted me to buy both for the first time in a few months and delighted I did as reminded me that both are really good reads!
TBH i think b4 the match last night we would have been happy with a draw, but the fact we were 2-0 up and only ended up with a draw, i suppose you have to say it was disappointing,IMO we are never going to win the CL and tht the 1st decent team we meet will probably be the end of our interest in the comp,as the song goes ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY so i wont lose any sleep when we exit this comp.Us qualifying for the CL every season again IMO is keeping wenger in a job.
I think it's more or less just a simple case of him playing shite tbh.
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