THE WENGER THREAD

[Allgunsblazin]

As long as we have a fantasist who really believes that he can mould players by playing them on the left wing there will be no success...
He has been found out years ago, thank fuck I am not a ST holder, what a waste of good cash chasing bad club direction..
Chelsea are ahead because they are proactive, Arsenal are reactive "oh shit we need to buy someone" trouble is the ambitious get their deals done early, master of failure does it last minute, and hands out multi million pound contracts to B listers....

[SPUDMASHER]

Apparently there is quite a lot of total made up nonsense on this thread.

Hadn't noticed it myself

[augie]

Again I think it's very naive to not see Kroenke as a problem that will hold Arsenal back as long as he is in control.
Abramovich threw money left right and centre but all these years later Chelsea are massive. They have the best team but sadly for us they have the best infrastructure. Last week they signed a young player that everyone wanted. They get things done because the guy in control wants success on the field?
In terms of value if he sold up tomorrow he would get a nice amount of his cash back.
I always felt it was unfair that a team got such a financial advantage but no one really talks about it anymore and they just win trophies.
If he owned us Wenger would have been sacked 10 years ago so yeah the owner is vital to success.

There is absolutely NOBODY disputing that fact, but lets be honest here with our assessment -

wenker has been given ample funds to build a team fit to challenge for the top trophies
wenker has sole control over what players are bought and sold
wenker has sole control over what tactics are used
wenker has sole control over team selections and substitutions
wenker has sole control over hiring and firing of coaches, scouts etc

People can spout utter bullshit all they like, but the reality is that wenker is the reason why this club has gone backwards, and is the reason why we wont win any of the big pots in the near future. Get rid of kroenke but keeping wenker ensures nothing will change - keeping kroenke and getting rid of wenker should at the very least see an improvement tactically and performance wise of the team, and in the short term that has to be the priority.
Anyone who prefers to try and deflect the blame for this malaise onto kroenke, is for a me a w*nker wenger apologist

[DB10GOONER]

Again I think it's very naive to not see Kroenke as a problem that will hold Arsenal back as long as he is in control.
Abramovich threw money left right and centre but all these years later Chelsea are massive. They have the best team but sadly for us they have the best infrastructure. Last week they signed a young player that everyone wanted. They get things done because the guy in control wants success on the field?
In terms of value if he sold up tomorrow he would get a nice amount of his cash back.
I always felt it was unfair that a team got such a financial advantage but no one really talks about it anymore and they just win trophies.
If he owned us Wenger would have been sacked 10 years ago so yeah the owner is vital to success.

There is absolutely NOBODY disputing that fact, but lets be honest here with our assessment -

wenker has been given ample funds to build a team fit to challenge for the top trophies
wenker has sole control over what players are bought and sold
wenker has sole control over what tactics are used
wenker has sole control over team selections and substitutions
wenker has sole control over hiring and firing of coaches, scouts etc

People can spout utter bullshit all they like, but the reality is that wenker is the reason why this club has gone backwards, and is the reason why we wont win any of the big pots in the near future. Get rid of kroenke but keeping wenker ensures nothing will change - keeping kroenke and getting rid of wenker should at the very least see an improvement tactically and performance wise of the team, and in the short term that has to be the priority.
Anyone who prefers to try and deflect the blame for this malaise onto kroenke, is for a me a w*nker wenger apologist

Christ, augie. Really? Can you actually point to anyone here that has tried to deflect the blame from Wenger onto Kroenke? All I've read is people saying that Wenger is to blame and has to go but that Kroenke has failed in only one (but one hugely vital) area; not sacking Wenger. I honestly cannot believe people are struggling to see this. The Wenger problem is resolved if the fucking OWNER fucking sacks the old deluded fuckwit.

To want the fucking OWNER to do his job and sack the failing bufoon of a manager is not the same as excusing the fucking manager!

Anyway, the sun is out, my new Steyr-Mannlicher SSG .308 arrives today, my boy's team can win their league with a draw tonight, and I ain't letting any of you dildo's ruin my fucking day so blow me you cúnts!

[augie]

Db10, there are a few (not many) who are continually deflecting the blame onto kroenke at a time when the SOLE FOCUS should be on removing wenker - whenever he goes we can all unite to try to get rid of the yank, but until that day we should not even mention the fact that he shows no interest in having successful clubs/franchises etc. and instead concentrate on removing what is BY FAR the biggest cancer in our club

[DB10GOONER]

Db10, there are a few (not many) who are continually deflecting the blame onto kroenke at a time when the SOLE FOCUS should be on removing wenker - whenever he goes we can all unite to try to get rid of the yank, but until that day we should not even mention the fact that he shows no interest in having successful clubs/franchises etc. and instead concentrate on removing what is BY FAR the biggest cancer in our club

Agreed 100% augie, but then it is a forum for discussing all things Arsenal so it's to be expected that the owner will get a "mention"!

[Allgunsblazin]

You lot should be a director for a day and see the hard work that goes into it....

[General]

Again I think it's very naive to not see Kroenke as a problem that will hold Arsenal back as long as he is in control.
Abramovich threw money left right and centre but all these years later Chelsea are massive. They have the best team but sadly for us they have the best infrastructure. Last week they signed a young player that everyone wanted. They get things done because the guy in control wants success on the field?
In terms of value if he sold up tomorrow he would get a nice amount of his cash back.
I always felt it was unfair that a team got such a financial advantage but no one really talks about it anymore and they just win trophies.
If he owned us Wenger would have been sacked 10 years ago so yeah the owner is vital to success.

Abramovich would get a nice amount of his cash back if he sold Chelsea? He would be hard pressed in getting anywhere near half of his money back.
The obvious confusion here is that he is a fan as oppose to an investor which is what Kroenke, the Glazers and Ellis Short are. He's loaded his subsidies as interest free loans onto Chelsea's books in typical robbing Peter to pay Paul fashion They remain long term debts and he is far from breaking even.

[NickF]

On the way into work I caught the end of the sports report on BBC. The moron actually said "and if Arsenal make the top 4 a lot of people will rejoin the Wenger In camp".

It saddens me that this really is how most people see it, win a game and all that has gone before is forgotten.

[Allgunsblazin]

On the way into work I caught the end of the sports report on BBC. The moron actually said "and if Arsenal make the top 4 a lot of people will rejoin the Wenger In camp".

It saddens me that this really is how most people see it, win a game and all that has gone before is forgotten.

Fake news!...
If I took everything as gospel in life, I would have been dead with worry!....

[DB10GOONER]

On the way into work I caught the end of the sports report on BBC. The moron actually said "and if Arsenal make the top 4 a lot of people will rejoin the Wenger In camp".

It saddens me that this really is how most people see it, win a game and all that has gone before is forgotten.

Merson came out with some similar shite earlier in the season;

"Well obviously he's a worldy Jeff, and those fans, if I'm honest, those fans that, Jeff, them that want him gone now, I hope they're careful what they wish for because them fans that want him, he's a worldy Jeff, he's top top class, and them fans will, you give them a couple good wins on the bounce Jeff, and them fans Jeff, he's, they'll, he's, they, them fans Jeff, they'll be back on side, if I'm honest, you wait and see Jeff, cuz he's top top top class, ask yourself Jeff, who else could do that job, Jeff?"

I paraphrase.

[General]

The argument that getting rid of Kroenke would mean an Abramovich type owner magically steps to fore, fires Wenger and voila we are winning all before us fails to recognise the risk that we could quite easily end up with a parasitic owner who either ends up draining money out of the club or leverages debts against our books. It's a far greater risk than getting rid of Wenger and we are prime candidates for this under the current circumstances. For every Abramovich there are several Hicks and Gillettes.
I've aso mentioned it before that United fans can no longer target the Glazers as they'v invested heavily in the squad. It's also debatable whether they would have sacked Moyes or Van Gaal had they matched Wenger's record for the past 3seasons. The extent to which Kroenke is holding us back can only be fully realised once we get rid of Wenger. With Wenger out of the way, it would be easier to go after him.

[armchair]

Abramovich would get a nice amount of his cash back if he sold Chelsea? He would be hard pressed in getting anywhere near half of his money back.
The obvious confusion here is that he is a fan as oppose to an investor which is what Kroenke, the Glazers and Ellis Short are. He's loaded his subsidies as interest free loans onto Chelsea's books in typical robbing Peter to pay Paul fashion They remain long term debts and he is far from breaking even.

Wobs have been accused on this thread of revisionism in the sense that Wenger hasnt been given or doesnt get enough credit for his achievements of the past. Personally I don't agree but fair enough.

But my God the re-writing of history is strong regarding the Kroenke debate.

"He's milking the club"
Well if taking a £3mill "consultancy fee" a couple times is milking the club them yes.

"He's bleeding us dry"
No actually we are one of the richest clubs in the world

"He's a club killer"
Again we are a rich club in the capital city with a worldwide fan base and state-of-the-art facilities.
If by "club killer" you mean how we've lost our heart and sole and identity since the move then that was in place before Kroenke took over.

"Wenger has been failing for at least a decade so Kroenke should have sacked him years ago"
This point is valid had Kroenke been anything other than an investor. An absentee landlord.
But again he only fully took over in 2011. That's only 6yrs ago. There's thousands of fans and actual wobs on this board who wouldn't have sacked Wenger in 2011 yet some expect Kroenke, a new owner to come in and do it? Some actual fans have only been WengerOut from this season yet Kronke should have sacked him years ago?
That's just not sensible really

I now see posts saying Abramovich would have sacked him 10 yrs ago. Jesus H Christ!
If your granny had balls she'd be your grandad fs.

Usmanov couldn't get in (and still can't really) yet people are rewriting history to intimate that Abramovich would have sacked him?
Look at the abuse and sneering, holier-than-thou attitude our fans have had towards Chelsea and City about "oil money", "Arab money" and "buying success"etc. Now some wish Abramovich was our owner because they reckon he would have sacked Wenger 10yrs ago.
Hypocritical imo.

[DB10GOONER]

The argument that getting rid of Kroenke would mean an Abramovich type owner magically steps to fore, fires Wenger and voila we are winning all before us fails to recognise the risk that we could quite easily end up with a parasitic owner who either ends up draining money out of the club or leverages debts against our books. It's a far greater risk than getting rid of Wenger and we are prime candidates for this under the current circumstances. For every Abramovich there are several Hicks and Gillettes.
I've aso mentioned it before that United fans can no longer target the Glazers as they'v invested heavily in the squad. It's also debatable whether they would have sacked Moyes or Van Gaal had they matched Wenger's record for the past 3seasons. The extent to which Kroenke is holding us back can only be fully realised once we get rid of Wenger. With Wenger out of the way, it would be easier to go after him.

Agree with most of that, mate. There certainly are far worse fuckers out there that could own us. Absolutely. And as I've said before (though some of our less intelligent posters choose to misread it) the ONLY area where Kroenke has really failed is in not sacking Wenger. If we are lucky enough to get a self motivated winner as our next manager then Kroenke ain't gonna be a problem. If we get someone that slips into minimum delivery mode then we are back to square one. And yeah I know it's a very hypothetical possibility that the next manager goes into that mode but even the possibility of years more of this Modern Arsenal Business Model shite scares the bejaysus outa me.

[armchair]

I hear the sound of backtracking

"Kroenke out! hes a club killer, a leech, a parasite. Hes milking the club!"

"Oh wait. Hold on. That's not actually true.
He should have sacked Wenger years ago though, the *word censored*....."