THE WENGER THREAD

[ThomasMitchell]

Titi please don't throw up that lame "be careful what you wish for" line cos it is indicative of the loser mentality that runs right through our club Are you honestly saying that we should just accept this level of mediocrity and not strive to improve ? Is that the attitude that has has made our club one of the flag bearers of English football for the best part of 80 years ? Maybe you still believe that wenger is the man to correct our shortcomings even though he has had years to improve things and yet we continue to regress I want our club to at least try and progress and changing manager is imperative for that to happen. Does that mean that the next manager is certain to make us winners.....no I am not saying that it is by personally I want us to try and improve rather than accept being losers feeding off scraps from other clubs and with ambitions no higher than finishing 4th

I hear a lot of comments from fans saying that they hope that wenger is allowed to walk away with his head high and not be hounded out.....I would suggest that the way it ends is down to wenger and wenger alone. He presided over the 8-2 mauling at old shatford last season (the worst result in our history) and he didn't walk. He presided countless defeats to the Bradford's, blackburns, norwich's, swansea's and wigan's of this world and yet he still remains. If he decides to finally put the club first and step down as manager then he might be allowed walk away with some dignity but if he allows his pride to interfere with what is best for all club then he deserves all the abuse that will comes his way imo

No of course we should look to improve. Obviously. I do not have a loser mentality whtsoever. And yes it might be necessary to do that without Arsene. Im not Arsene's biggest fan. I have huge respect for him but not a SHEEP like someone suggested. I am just saying that (1) he is not all to blame and (2) he deserves more respect for what he has achieved at the club that being called senile, pschyopath etc.

So are you telling me that David Moyes or his type will come in and get us challenging again?? Not going to happen.

Arsene Wenger in my opinion has done more than a GOOD job in securing CL qualification over the past number of years - other managers wouldnt have done it with the players he's had to work with. Until that time comes when we don't qualify, then I can't question the man. And thats not accepting the spin of 4th place is a trophy etc or loser attitude. Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United, that City and Chelsea have huge amount of money plowed into their clubs and that Man Utd are effectively a GLOBAL brand that we cant compete with and can therefore carry huge amounts of debt that we couldnt afford to.

We're trying to HOUND one of the greatest managers the club has had in its history out of the club? Not right in my opinion. Yes you might feel he's time is up, its 50:50 now by all accounts and thats fair enough - but show some respect and class in your opinion.

I agree. Show the same class that Wenger demonstrated last night at the end of the game when he did not even have the grace to acknowledge the opposition manager - the same manager that heaped praise on him 24 hours before. I am afraid Mr Wenger is setting the tone here.

The Munich Bench were going mad, he more than likely spoke to him after the game as they are personal friends...by all means dig out Wenger - but not over stupid stuff like that.

It's not the first time and it won't be the last - there are always people happy to provide excuses for everything he does. He has form. His displays in press conference are an embarrassment. He is an embarrassment. Only good thing is that he is showing to the world (and the ever dwindling support he has within the fan base) that for so many reasons he needs to be shown the door.

[Clash]

I do not subscribe to the notion he doesnt care about the club, doesnt want to win - I think he feels defeats just as much as us fans do, if not more.

The problem is, I think the job is too big for someone so embedded within the club now and we need a fresh set of ideas, even if it does mean dropping a level with a view to long-term success.

I will never join in with the personal abuse, because he cares about this club as much as we do.

Does he care about the club more than his own philsophy and reputation though? In my view the answer is no.

Although the Bould story is unproven, it does seem very likely that there is some truth to it. And if it is true then we have a situation where the team was showing signs of improvement in a much needed area, only for that improvement to be stopped just because the manager wasnt getting credit for it. Or because it didnt fit in with his own personal idealism.

If true, that is the behaviour of a man putting his interests before the clubs, which in my view is someone who loves himself more than he loves the club. And not someone I want as Arsenal manager.

[Titi Gooner for life]

Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United.

Yet you admitted on the previous page that Wenger has too much power at the club (he did the interviews for the position of his own boss!!!!!!).

Do you honestly believe anyone but Arsene Wenger authorised the sale of RVP to United? Do me a favour for FFS

Yes I agree that he has too much power - but that is not his fault. Its the fault of those who gave him that responsibility? Ler Arsene make the decisions so we can hide behind him as we know he wont criticise us publicly.

[Titi Gooner for life]

I do not subscribe to the notion he doesnt care about the club, doesnt want to win - I think he feels defeats just as much as us fans do, if not more.

The problem is, I think the job is too big for someone so embedded within the club now and we need a fresh set of ideas, even if it does mean dropping a level with a view to long-term success.

I will never join in with the personal abuse, because he cares about this club as much as we do.

Does he care about the club more than his own philsophy and reputation though? In my view the answer is no.

Although the Bould story is unproven, it does seem very likely that there is some truth to it. And if it is true then we have a situation where the team was showing signs of improvement in a much needed area, only for that improvement to be stopped just because the manager wasnt getting credit for it. Or because it didnt fit in with his own personal idealism.

If true, that is the behaviour of a man putting his interests before the clubs, which in my view is someone who loves himself more than he loves the club. And not someone I want as Arsenal manager.

I believe Arsene Wenger puts the club's interests before his own - 100%. Thats not to say he hasnt made mistakes but i believe him to have the club at heart.

[flash gunner]

Arsenal's wage bill - £3 million more than Bayern's

Yes, the constraints that Wenger has to work under. He just constantly, ermm, spins through his teeth. The same as the rest of the top management at the business.

^Titi what do you make of this? Funny how people skip the posts they dont like

[augie]

Titi please don't throw up that lame "be careful what you wish for" line cos it is indicative of the loser mentality that runs right through our club Are you honestly saying that we should just accept this level of mediocrity and not strive to improve ? Is that the attitude that has has made our club one of the flag bearers of English football for the best part of 80 years ? Maybe you still believe that wenger is the man to correct our shortcomings even though he has had years to improve things and yet we continue to regress I want our club to at least try and progress and changing manager is imperative for that to happen. Does that mean that the next manager is certain to make us winners.....no I am not saying that it is by personally I want us to try and improve rather than accept being losers feeding off scraps from other clubs and with ambitions no higher than finishing 4th

I hear a lot of comments from fans saying that they hope that wenger is allowed to walk away with his head high and not be hounded out.....I would suggest that the way it ends is down to wenger and wenger alone. He presided over the 8-2 mauling at old shatford last season (the worst result in our history) and he didn't walk. He presided countless defeats to the Bradford's, blackburns, norwich's, swansea's and wigan's of this world and yet he still remains. If he decides to finally put the club first and step down as manager then he might be allowed walk away with some dignity but if he allows his pride to interfere with what is best for all club then he deserves all the abuse that will comes his way imo

No of course we should look to improve. Obviously. I do not have a loser mentality whtsoever. And yes it might be necessary to do that without Arsene. Im not Arsene's biggest fan. I have huge respect for him but not a SHEEP like someone suggested. I am just saying that (1) he is not all to blame and (2) he deserves more respect for what he has achieved at the club that being called senile, pschyopath etc.

So are you telling me that David Moyes or his type will come in and get us challenging again?? Not going to happen.

Arsene Wenger in my opinion has done more than a GOOD job in securing CL qualification over the past number of years - other managers wouldnt have done it with the players he's had to work with. Until that time comes when we don't qualify, then I can't question the man. And thats not accepting the spin of 4th place is a trophy etc or loser attitude. Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United, that City and Chelsea have huge amount of money plowed into their clubs and that Man Utd are effectively a GLOBAL brand that we cant compete with and can therefore carry huge amounts of debt that we couldnt afford to.

We're trying to HOUND one of the greatest managers the club has had in its history out of the club? Not right in my opinion. Yes you might feel he's time is up, its 50:50 now by all accounts and thats fair enough - but show some respect and class in your opinion. [/quote]



Point number 1 : I never said that the next manager would be a success and mate a point stressing that but what I did say is that we should try to improve and that will not happen under wenger

Point number 2 : Other managers wouldn't have achieved top 4 with these players......who exactly bought these players then ? When you buy shite like gervinho, Giroud, santos etc then you cannot use it as an excuse for your failures. The chavs bought demba ba for approx half of what we paid for Giroud.....if you needed goals who would you put your money on to get them goals ? Who was it that not alone bought these players, stuck by them despite all the evidence showing that they were not good enough, and then, to totally compound the errors, he turned around and gave them bumper extended contracts ?
The man was a legend in the first half of his reign and has been a disgrace in the 2nd half of his reign and I know that he would not have lasted 4 years if he started his reign in the same way that he has performed in the last 4 years.

Btw respect works two ways.....he doesn't show respect to those paying his 7.5m wages so in turn he cannot expect respect in return

[arseofacrow]

If his personal interests involved his own cv, then he has to some extent sacrificed something of himself. On the other hand, I believe was his ego that lead him into the failed "project", which he believed would bring glory, hence I don't believe he ever thought that he would be in this position 8 years later of looking at an empty trophy cabinet.

He's had numerous chances to rectify mistakes but for at least the last 5 years, but these mistakes are being continually repeated. Bad players, bad coaching, too high wages, humiliating defeats, lack of character and will to win...the list goes on.

And signing the likes of Santos and Arteta, when in the same period talking about only signing "super, super quliaty"...the farce of van Persie...no respect for the people who really maintain this club - the fans.

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United.

Yet you admitted on the previous page that Wenger has too much power at the club (he did the interviews for the position of his own boss!!!!!!).

Do you honestly believe anyone but Arsene Wenger authorised the sale of RVP to United? Do me a favour for FFS

Yes I agree that he has too much power - but that is not his fault. Its the fault of those who gave him that responsibility? Ler Arsene make the decisions so we can hide behind him as we know he wont criticise us publicly.

So Wenger bears no responsibility for his own actions purely because the board have given him the power to carry them out in the first place?

If a murderer walks free and then kills again does he bear no responsibility for his actions because a court didn't lock him up?

Out of interest, if we pulled off a miracle & won the CL this season would you refuse to give Wenger any credit on the basis that he was only allowed to do so because the board let him? Or would he suddenly be responsible for his own actions then?

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

Double

...double double, franksav's chin has done the double!

[Goonerkev]

What on earth are we talking about here? Basically, an aged manager who has had some great years and is still living off the back of his temporary success, taking a kings ransom from us every season and not living up to the price tag! Every time the bloke opens his mouth I feel embarrassed, what is he going to come out with now? Bullsh*t, that's what! Nothing but crap, whatever he fancies saying, whether it makes sense or not.

Yep, he has been good for the Club, but isn't he being paid £7 mill+ a season to be a coach? Something I think he has totally forgotten about and is obviously failing miserably, it's all about the money and so he MUST go.

Look at all the dross he has brought in - I suppose that is someone else's fault! Our squad numbers are taken up of players we cannot get rid of and earning £60k ish a week, far too many names that Wenger has bought in cheaply in the hope of flogging them on to the likes of Man Shitty to make a tidy profit within a couple of years.

He is now moaning about our players not showing ambition in their game - who is responsible for our team tactics, playing possession football, playing a technical game rather than a good old fashioned game of footy? I suppose that is someone else's fault?

We will not pay good money for decent players, but prefer to gamble on unproven dross and pay them OTT to save a couple of quid, someone else's fault? Prem proven Cahill or donkey Mertesacker (he had another blinder last night), mmmmmm, let's save a couple of quid and go for another also ran.

We could not sign David Villa as Barca did not want to sell him, did we then want to sell RVP? Someone else's fault! Didn't Wenger quote that signing Giroud and Podolski was to support RVP and strengthen the squad, but when RVP was sold and AW was asked if he was replacing him, he said 'we have already!' LIES, one of many.

Fukin hell, we could go on and on and on about the fuk ups this man has made and STILL, he takes an obscene salary every season, for what. Any man in any other job would not get away with this for so long so why should he?

Don't you think he is clutching very tightly at the 4th spot is a trophy straws! Blinding, let's qualify for something we ain't got a realistic chance of winning. Was anyone really surprised we got turned over last night at the knock out stage - AGAIN?!!!!!!!

I chucked in my ST 2 seasons into the Emirates when you could clearly see that our 3 year rebuild programme was a load of crap, and here we are still waiting 5 years later in which time we have seen very few good memories.

Wenger, thanks for those memories but your time is overdue.

[DB10GOONER]

If his personal interests involved his own cv, then he has to some extent sacrificed something of himself. On the other hand, I believe was his ego that lead him into the failed "project", which he believed would bring glory, hence I don't believe he ever thought that he would be in this position 8 years later of looking at an empty trophy cabinet.

He's had numerous chances to rectify mistakes but for at least the last 5 years, but these mistakes are being continually repeated. Bad players, bad coaching, too high wages, humiliating defeats, lack of character and will to win...the list goes on.

And signing the likes of Santos and Arteta, when in the same period talking about only signing "super, super quliaty"...the farce of van Persie...no respect for the people who really maintain this club - the fans.

Arteta has been one of our better, more reliable players, mate! A typo surely...

[arseofacrow]

If his personal interests involved his own cv, then he has to some extent sacrificed something of himself. On the other hand, I believe was his ego that lead him into the failed "project", which he believed would bring glory, hence I don't believe he ever thought that he would be in this position 8 years later of looking at an empty trophy cabinet.

He's had numerous chances to rectify mistakes but for at least the last 5 years, but these mistakes are being continually repeated. Bad players, bad coaching, too high wages, humiliating defeats, lack of character and will to win...the list goes on.

And signing the likes of Santos and Arteta, when in the same period talking about only signing "super, super quliaty"...the farce of van Persie...no respect for the people who really maintain this club - the fans.

Arteta has been one of our better, more reliable players, mate! A typo surely...

Yes, but he's not super, super quality and is more of the treading water that we are experiencing at the moment.

I just wanted to highlight that someone like Arteta, while good, doesn't meet Wenger's own strict criteria and is in the same mould as other players in different positions who are nowhere near the quality of their predecessors, or even in many cases competent at all.

[ThomasMitchell]

If his personal interests involved his own cv, then he has to some extent sacrificed something of himself. On the other hand, I believe was his ego that lead him into the failed "project", which he believed would bring glory, hence I don't believe he ever thought that he would be in this position 8 years later of looking at an empty trophy cabinet.

He's had numerous chances to rectify mistakes but for at least the last 5 years, but these mistakes are being continually repeated. Bad players, bad coaching, too high wages, humiliating defeats, lack of character and will to win...the list goes on.

And signing the likes of Santos and Arteta, when in the same period talking about only signing "super, super quliaty"...the farce of van Persie...no respect for the people who really maintain this club - the fans.

Arteta has been one of our better, more reliable players, mate! A typo surely...

Yes, but he's not super, super quality and is more of the treading water that we are experiencing at the moment.

I just wanted to highlight that someone like Arteta, while good, doesn't meet Wenger's own strict criteria and is in the same mould as other players in different positions who are nowhere near the quality of their predecessors, or even in many cases competent at all.

I think last night demonstrated that whilst Arteta is a decent player, he is certainly not the type of quality player we need to allow us to compete at the highest level. And we bought him when he had probably seen his best days (and best of all made him take a pay cut for the pleasure of playing in this team).

[begeegs]

Welcome to the forum, Titi. Unfortunately, we are like vampires here looking for fresh blood and you are the fresh blood

Essentially, if you take away the financial portion of the game, which others have highlighted and seem a point of contention with people who still support Wenger, you are down to what we see on the field. What we see (effort aside) is a lot of headless chicken defending and the now predictable tactics of pass through the middle.

If you look at Bayern last night, they were organized, ran for each other and had a plan to stop us. We didn't even make it out of our half for most of the first half. Now that is Bayern, other teams may not believe in their quality as much and prefer to park the bus. We can't break them down - how many years have we seen that?

We can't defend set pieces, our attacking set pieces are a joke (yes, we got a gift last night), we are awful without the ball, and when things aren't working out, we wait until 70 minutes almost every game to change it. Half the games, we don't even bother to turn up until after the first half. We lead the league in individual defensive errors. If you take away our routs this year (Southampton, West Ham, etc) you will notice that we are actually struggling to score goals.

Any other manager would have been chucked out on his ear now, but because Wenger was great almost 10 years ago, he remains in a job because people have belief about the financial aspects that he may be operating under rather than what is on the pitch. This also flies in the face of the official Arsenal accounts, what Gazidis has said and also includes quotes from Wenger, himself.

[Top Londoner]

Tom Watt on talkshite now,

"we are just at the point now (after 10-12 years) to have made money to go and spend on top class players.
We don't need Usmanov.
I trust Wenger to put it right.

WENGER HAS PROVED HE CAN FIND A FALCAO BEFORE HE COSTS £20 MILLION

Our past four signings have been very strong, and if he buys as strongly on another four this summer, then it won't take much to make the situation completely different"

comedy gold.