STOKE CITY THREAD

[ThomasMitchell]

Quote from Wenger after the game 'You could see today that something has gone". So much for "giving every once of blood till the end of the season" then as he claimed last week! What a joke he has become - and the players are no better.

Sagna said of our poor defending, ""It can be put right on the training ground because "it is in our mind". So much for the mental strength!

[HashKads]

Just got back home from this farce. wasnt going to go but talked myself into it i am a prick. Arsenal you are a bunch of gutless spineless c**ts. Mental strength my arse

No you aren't - what did you do wrong (well actually you have been kind of a prick toward me ) but seriously you didn't do anything wrong. You supported your club. You went hoping for the best (I think we're all a ways past expecting the best now) from and for us. Don't ever blasme yourself for that even as a joke. This mess is not any of our fault or doing.

When everything is fucked, Martin will be there to pick us up and make it better. Love you Mart <3

[Jak_TedDrakeLoveChild]

I don't know why it bothers me do much, but when we have lost in a style like this why do our players just shrug themselves off the pitch without a single bit of recognition for the fans that gave travelled the distance. I stayed to applaud some of our lads of the pitch as I genuinely think we were seeing the last of some of them today.

RVP had a great chance but went for top corner finish when simply slotting it seemed easier! Frustrating! What's the verdict on Jacks challenge on Pennant? Looked two footed but seemed to get the ball?? I'm worried for the lad, whilst being the one who shows the most guts and determination he seems shattered already, god knows what he'll be like after the summer!!? He's developing a habit of winding up players and getting involved in petty spats! Think that makes me love him more!

[ElliotGooner]

At the final whistle I purposely waited behind due to the tunnel behind right next to the away end and for once was able to tell from body language etc. the ones who were really hurting.

Walked straight off without looking or acknowledging the fans in front of them was: Kos,Djourou,Gibbs, Chamakh, Arsh, Rosicky.

Fair play to : Jack, Eboue Szec and RVP the same loyal faces (regardless of their performancesor mistakes) always make an effort and throw their shirt or give their boots etc. to the fans

The rest disappeared as quick as they could and their faces smacked of 'so what'. The ones who did clap us as just mentioned were distraught and you could tell they are fed up with playing with the average players like Bendtner etc.

[treygoony]

Oh... just the same then...

Oh hum, still again fair play to you all for going, my patience with this bottling lot was done for the final time up at Newcastle.

Thank fuck I didn't go to that match. This is my season over, absolutely pathetic.
Dan had it spot on, people clapping and a couple of kids fighting for Jacks shirt.
Honestly don't know when this will end.

[Barriecuda]

At the final whistle I purposely waited behind due to the tunnel behind right next to the away end and for once was able to tell from body language etc. the ones who were really hurting.

Walked straight off without looking or acknowledging the fans in front of them was: Kos,Djourou,Gibbs, Chamakh, Arsh, Rosicky.

Fair play to : Jack, Eboue Szec and RVP the same loyal faces (regardless of their performancesor mistakes) always make an effort and throw their shirt or give their boots etc. to the fans

The rest disappeared as quick as they could and their faces smacked of 'so what'. The ones who did clap us as just mentioned were distraught and you could tell they are fed up with playing with the average players like Bendtner etc.

I'm never quite sure what I'd rather see from the players. I always admire the players that stick around to acknowledge the fans, because I like that humility. However, there can be times when you should walk off shamefully without asking for recognition, because you were simply not good enough... and if there was ever a time for that, it would be in the last couple weeks.

In Arshavin's defense, that's the most tracking back I've seen him do all year - and for what I've seen, he seems to be coming back a LOT more frequently than he did in his lazier, fatter part of the early campaign.

Djourou is absolutely abysmal at man-marking however and our entire back-4 (plus the keeper) have woeful communication. It looks like my men's league team - not a leader in the bunch, and as a result it's constant schoolboy errors leading to easy goals for the opposition. Not only do we need a 6+ foot defender for the sake of defending the ball, we need a towering figure to take the reigns and organize things.

[USMartin]

I would normally let stuff like this go and I certainly don't intend to carry on this debate after this post but frankly Martin you are not playing ball here.

Sagna has been here for 4 years, Clichy for 7. Lee Dixon and Nigel Winterburn joined Arsenal in 1988 and 1987 before winning the title in 1989; prior to that they were journeymen full backs that had spent the majority of their careers outside the top flight. So please don't play the lack of experience card - it simply isn't true. You seem able to justify Song still learining his trade after 3 years in a role; these guys were taking over Liverpool's invincible mantle and winning titles in less than that time.

Steve Bould joined Arsenal in 1988 also having spent the majority of his career outside the top flight. Johan Djourou has been here since 2004, supposedly learning from the likes of Campbell, spent a year at Birmingham and has had an intermittent career since then. I admit his injuries have disrupted his progress but he's not a baby anymore. What the hell was he doing for that 3rd goal today; honestly that was the sort of defending I occasionally see in the Blue Square South

If Arsene Wenger decided to 'invest' the small matter of €8m-€10m on a player that has spent his career kicking about in Ligue 2 then that is not the board's problem. He could easily have recruited a decent PL centre half for that fee (Cahill cost Bolton £4.5m, Huth about the same for Stoke). Heaven forbid; he could even try looking in the Championship as Graham once did. But no - his policy is French first, anywhere else 'cheap' second and English last.

Facts

George Graham built a defence on a shoestring budget

Three of the regular players in that defence had a maximum of 2 years top flight experience when they won it

Arsenal could not afford the top players back then either


Honestly Martin I implore you - read the book. Six versus four drills day in day out, repeated offside drills so that it happened naturally. Set pieces for and against - day in, day out. Watch the videos of how we used to score goals regularly from set plays (something we now seem to think is beneath us and only befitting of clubs like Stoke). Accept that there are coaches in world football that can produce better defences that Wenger can on comparable or smaller budgets and leave it there please

BTW - the Board are still c**ts

Its good night from me.....

Steve here is a fact if you go to Arseblog in 2006 or 2007 you will see a concversation a chap named would you believe it(me at the time) had with yet another Arsenal supporter insisting that Arsene Wenger just didn't want to spend the money he had(not suggesting you are saying that btw but I think you know there are a few here who do), and so I asked okay let's assume you are right - let's sack him then. What would then say if we didn't go out and buy the players we need to buy. And this bloke said he would give the Board five years because they had hired a new man before questioning their ambtion.

Is that really what you want to happen here? Do you want them to feed you the placebo of a managerial change alone so they can continue to fleece us while investing nothing back? Because if you think they wouldn't do that I fear you are sadly mistaken. In fact I suspect they would happily install Tony Adams and Martin Keown and count on the supporters good will toward them to cover the fact that they haven't invested a penny more.

Advocatung for a mamagerial change alone is merely advocating for a place3bo and nothing more and it wiill be too late once this is clear to do anything more until the the team suffers further decline and damage that costs even more to correct.. We must pressure the Club be it the Board as a whole or Mr. Kroenke tom invest the money we need to invest no matter who the manager is now, because already it will cost far more than it would have had we done it incrementally the past several years.

And if we don't do it now the possibility of declining further increases and that means that it will cost far far more than it would now even. Imagine even if cesc and Nasri stay this year but we get passed out otf the top four. How much would the players we couild have bought for 30 million the past few years who will cost about 70 million now cost when their clubs and agents know we are genuinely desperate to buy them? 100 million? And what about replacing the players who will undoubtedly leave withoutn Champions League football or bumper wages?

There is no simple solution here, no magic bullet. We cannot afford to pretend there is and worse allow TPTB to pretend there is either. It doesn't matter who the manager is because we have needs that must be addressed all over the pitch, and if the money is not made available to address them properly to whoever manages Arsenal then we simply will be opening new holes in different places to plug the older holes we see now.

[USMartin]

Just got back home from this farce. wasnt going to go but talked myself into it i am a prick. Arsenal you are a bunch of gutless spineless c**ts. Mental strength my arse

No you aren't - what did you do wrong (well actually you have been kind of a prick toward me ) but seriously you didn't do anything wrong. You supported your club. You went hoping for the best (I think we're all a ways past expecting the best now) from and for us. Don't ever blasme yourself for that even as a joke. This mess is not any of our fault or doing.

When everything is fucked, Martin will be there to pick us up and make it better. Love you Mart <3

I love you too man

[Herd]

Yesterday it was all about tactics .

Abysmal defending at set pieces again and a style of play that hasnt worked on so many occasions.

Substitutions great but putting Bendtner on as a winger is absurd as we've all noted before.

Stoke looked comfortable for all but 15 mins of the match !

[FrenchGun]

Pretty much everything has been said...

I guess that as many others here, I can't wait for this season to end....

If I could add my opinion to all that has been said, I think that appart from a small bunch, our squad is not any weaker than say Man U or Chavs. It's quite obvious that our problem doesn't lie in quality, but rather on this famous "mental strengh" our boss loves to talk about...

IMO, there's a few bunch of players that drags the others down. If I was, RVP, Cesc, Arsh, Jack, I think that by now I'd be quite fed up with the likes of Djourou, Kos, Clichy, Song, Denilson, Bender, Chamakh, eboué...

Imagine being in the place of RVP today: We produce nothing! We have absolutly no cutting edge, no creativity, just nothing! Finally, RVP produces a flash of brilliance and puts us back in the race. Now can you imagine giving your all to score a goal and give some hope to your team, just to see everything thrown away in the next min? Can you imagine how you would feel if this happened week-in week-out?

[1989]

Pretty much everything has been said...

I guess that as many others here, I can't wait for this season to end....

If I could add my opinion to all that has been said, I think that appart from a small bunch, our squad is not any weaker than say Man U or Chavs. It's quite obvious that our problem doesn't lie in quality, but rather on this famous "mental strengh" our boss loves to talk about...

IMO, there's a few bunch of players that drags the others down. If I was, RVP, Cesc, Arsh, Jack, I think that by now I'd be quite fed up with the likes of Djourou, Kos, Clichy, Song, Denilson, Bender, Chamakh, eboué...

Imagine being in the place of RVP today: We produce nothing! We have absolutly no cutting edge, no creativity, just nothing! Finally, RVP produces a flash of brilliance and puts us back in the race. Now can you imagine giving your all to score a goal and give some hope to your team, just to see everything thrown away in the next min? Can you imagine how you would feel if this happened week-in week-out?

That's fucking bullshit mate.

Other than RvP, Cesc (off this summer), Nasri (possibly off too), Sagna, Roger Szcz, Jack, Ramsey, and Vermaelen, we don't really have much quality. The dross far outweighs the quality in the squad.

We need more than 5 new players in my opinion, at least.

Yes we have about as much mental resolve as a jellyfish, but make no mistake, we lack quality too.

[marcengels]

The curse of the big talking Arsenal players strikes again. This time, Djourou, after his call to arms in praise of the Wenger project, reminds us today what a pathetic fucking central defender he really is.

If he's the best we've got, and possible first choice, then I think that tells us where we are right now.

[FrenchGun]

Pretty much everything has been said...

I guess that as many others here, I can't wait for this season to end....

If I could add my opinion to all that has been said, I think that appart from a small bunch, our squad is not any weaker than say Man U or Chavs. It's quite obvious that our problem doesn't lie in quality, but rather on this famous "mental strengh" our boss loves to talk about...

IMO, there's a few bunch of players that drags the others down. If I was, RVP, Cesc, Arsh, Jack, I think that by now I'd be quite fed up with the likes of Djourou, Kos, Clichy, Song, Denilson, Bender, Chamakh, eboué...

Imagine being in the place of RVP today: We produce nothing! We have absolutly no cutting edge, no creativity, just nothing! Finally, RVP produces a flash of brilliance and puts us back in the race. Now can you imagine giving your all to score a goal and give some hope to your team, just to see everything thrown away in the next min? Can you imagine how you would feel if this happened week-in week-out?

That's fucking bullshit mate.

Other than RvP, Cesc (off this summer), Nasri (possibly off too), Sagna, Roger Szcz, Jack, Ramsey, and Vermaelen, we don't really have much quality. The dross far outweighs the quality in the squad.

We need more than 5 new players in my opinion, at least.

Yes we have about as much mental resolve as a jellyfish, but make no mistake, we lack quality too.

You say that, but in the same time, since December, Nasri hasn't impressed me at all, Cesc has only been the shadow of his former self, Sagna... Well sagna, is probably good defensively but never have I seen him try to get past his defender and put in a decent center. Ramsey, the same player who performed brilliantly vs Man Ure, just offered Stoke their second goal. And TV, well... if he had played one game this season than maybe I would have an opinion...

This is what I'm trying to say. I think Manure and Chavs have some dead wood as well. It's just that in their case, the good players bring the best out of the crap ones, while in our case, the crap players, add to Wenger abyssimal tactics brings our best players down.

You say that we need at least 5 players. I think more than anything, we need a proper back 4 with proper defensives tactics. IMO the problem is not that we don't score enought goals, it's that we seem to conceed even easier than we score...

[FrenchGun]

The curse of the big talking Arsenal players strikes again. This time, Djourou, after his call to arms in praise of the Wenger project, reminds us today what a pathetic fucking central defender he really is.

If he's the best we've got, and possible first choice, then I think that tells us where we are right now.

May I add marc, that for all the good things he might have done during the season, just for the way he conceded the third goal vs. stoke, I would never ever have Djourou in our back 4 again!!!

[marcengels]

The curse of the big talking Arsenal players strikes again. This time, Djourou, after his call to arms in praise of the Wenger project, reminds us today what a pathetic fucking central defender he really is.

If he's the best we've got, and possible first choice, then I think that tells us where we are right now.

May I add marc, that for all the good things he might have done during the season, just for the way he conceded the third goal vs. stoke, I would never ever have Djourou in our back 4 again!!!

It's not just that FG, he generally keeps losing his man at set pieces, not commanding enough, gets turned easily on the ground.

I have no confidence in this guy to take us forward.