As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??
I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .
I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.
I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.
Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.
Well that makes me one of them because I would like to see the record equalled.
Why? Because it is attributed to Wenger and he is so bloody willing to live off it over a decade later. It is ancient history and as others have pointed out, we are the only club / fans that live in the past in this way. We'd mock any other club that indulged themselves in something that happened so long ago but we're happy to do it. The unbeaten record is what keeps Wenger in his overpaid job!!
I want to see Arsenal return to winning ways but that will not happen under Wenger & Kroenke. I've reached the stage where I want their tenure to end in utter ignominy.
Still not having a pop but I don't buy that either tbh. Every set of fans takes pride and enjoys the nostalgia of their great teams and achievements - what is wrong with that? It's not living in the past. It's part of what makes football great. It's not saying "ok we were once great, that will do". Wanting success and enjoying our clubs history are not mutually exclusive things.
The bit in red?? You know that's not the case, mate. Kroenke is what keeps Wenger in his job. Delivering the bare minimum financial management for Kroenke is what keeps Wenger in his job.
We'll have to agree to disagree but I personally think it would be shameful for a pimped club like citeh to equal our unbeaten record. They (and the chav) epitimise everything I hate about modern football. Fuck them.
How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??
I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .
I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.
I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.
Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.
Pires?? I think Pires runs past Wenger what he is going to say to the press before he commits to it. A great player, loved him in his day but another one of those players who played for Arsene not Arsenal and cannot seem to differentiate between the two.
I personally feel that Arsene Wenger is a really nasty piece of work and if the press did their job properly we would see the real Arsene Wenger showing his teeth more often. There are so many examples of the mans spite and outright nastiness, a book could be written about those alone. The way he carried on about Sterling was nasty & vindictive and all to deflect from his own failings...he should have been brought to account for that alone.
How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??
I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .
I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.
I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.
Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.
Pires?? I think Pires runs past Wenger what he is going to say to the press before he commits to it. A great player, loved him in his day but another one of those players who played for Arsene not Arsenal and cannot seem to differentiate between the two.
I personally feel that Arsene Wenger is a really nasty piece of work and if the press did their job properly we would see the real Arsene Wenger showing his teeth more often. There are so many examples of the mans spite and outright nastiness, a book could be written about those alone. The way he carried on about Sterling was nasty & vindictive and all to deflect from his own failings...he should have been brought to account for that alone.
Okay, firstly 90% of players will never bad mouth a manager they were successful under. What do you expect? Pires wasn't an Arsenal fan. He was a professional footballer that had great success under Wenger. He may actually genuinely like the man for all we know, but he should bad mouth him because a load of fans he'll never meet don't like Wenger? Pires was a brilliant player, love the man, could not really care less what his opinions are on anything though. Same as Wrighty, DB10, Henry, TA6, PV4, Petit etc etc.
Second, "football manager is not genuine lovely bloke" shocker! Seriously, 99.99% of managers have a good healthy streak of cúnt in them and they need to because it is a dog eat dog industry they are in. The reason we don't see more of that side of Wenger and only glimpse it is because he is safe as houses in that job whilst The Wigged Freak owns us. Sad but true.
Also, what he said about Sterling is true. He is a cheating diving cúnt. Just because you don't like the messenger doesn't mean the message is untrue...
How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??
I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .
I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.
I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.
Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.
Maybe I am wrong here, but I think that most fans want Arsenal to lose in the hope that it will accelerate wenker's departure, and not to spite him - the sentiments that you are talking about are a knock on effect where some people think that results will never affect his position (total bullshit imo) and thus want the b**tard to suffer for putting himself above the good of the club. Fans like me are willing to sacrifice almost anything in the short term, to ensure progress going forward - in other words we will accept short term failures/humiliations, in the hope that we have long term successes and not live forever on past glories (and that is exactly what the french c.unt is doing )
How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??
I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .
I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.
I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.
Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.
Maybe I am wrong here, but I think that most fans want Arsenal to lose in the hope that it will accelerate wenker's departure, and not to spite him - the sentiments that you are talking about are a knock on effect where some people think that results will never affect his position (total bullshit imo) and thus want the b**tard to suffer for putting himself above the good of the club. Fans like me are willing to sacrifice almost anything in the short term, to ensure progress going forward - in other words we will accept short term failures/humiliations, in the hope that we have long term successes and not live forever on past glories (and that is exactly what the french c.unt is doing )
You are wrong. Well spotted.
Anyway here we go round this fucking circle again....
There is literally nothing Wenger could do that will see Kroenke sack him. I honestly believe that. Even if we were relegated Wiggy would listen to the AKB and his financial advisers and it would be a combo of "who else could get us back into the PL" and shit like "he has earned the right to blah blah...". So how far are we willing to go? Relegation for 5 years? Down to the championship? Do a Forest? A Leeds? All in the hope that Wiggy will buck his well established trend and actually sack Wenger?
Not directing this at anyone in particular more a general comment but it strikes me (and I've said it before) that is looks like some Gooners hate Wenger more than they love Arsenal and that is bizarre tbh.
How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??
I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .
I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.
I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.
Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.
Maybe I am wrong here, but I think that most fans want Arsenal to lose in the hope that it will accelerate wenker's departure, and not to spite him - the sentiments that you are talking about are a knock on effect where some people think that results will never affect his position (total bullshit imo) and thus want the b**tard to suffer for putting himself above the good of the club. Fans like me are willing to sacrifice almost anything in the short term, to ensure progress going forward - in other words we will accept short term failures/humiliations, in the hope that we have long term successes and not live forever on past glories (and that is exactly what the french c.unt is doing )
Anything apart from their "time" to attend protests that is
Fair enough if people think losing would not weaken Wenger's position but winning certainly strengthens his position and allows him to continue to project this deceitful outlook without any risk of getting called up on it. He is desperate and would squeeze every ounce out of the slighted bit of success he can find. The astonishing part is that results are now being underplayed as long as we have plenty of possession, 33shots on target or simply carry the greater attacking threat whiles abandoning the basics of defending. You only have to look at the reaction after the United game to see the short memories and how confused the picture has become for many fans. It didn't matter that the obvious structural weaknesses which have been present for the past decade were on once again on show or the fact that you could go back in time and find many similar performances.
The crux of the matter is we will never ever compete for the biggest prizes, see players reach their true potential, play quality football or even play with pride on a consistent basis as long as Wenger remains in charge, so can someone remind me what we're benefitting from winning football games? I can never wish relegation on my club and cannot agree with anyone who does, but anything else is fair game imo.
Fair enough if people think losing would not weaken Wenger's position but winning certainly strengthens his position and allows him to continue to project this deceitful outlook without any risk of getting called up on it. He is desperate and would squeeze every ounce out of the slighted bit of success he can find. The astonishing part is that results are now being underplayed as long as we have plenty of possession, 33shots on target or simply carry the greater attacking threat whiles abandoning the basics of defending. You only have to look at the reaction after the United game to see the short memories and how confused the picture has become for many fans. It didn't matter that the obvious structural weaknesses which have been present for the past decade were on once again on show or the fact that you could go back in time and find many similar performances.
The crux of the matter is we will never ever compete for the biggest prizes, see players reach their true potential, play quality football or even play with pride on a consistent basis as long as Wenger remains in charge, so can someone remind me what we're benefitting from winning football games? I can never wish relegation on my club and cannot agree with anyone who does, but anything else is fair game imo.
But if you want us to lose every game and we do then we would deffo get relegated, or do you mean pick and choose the games we lose
Fair enough if people think losing would not weaken Wenger's position but winning certainly strengthens his position and allows him to continue to project this deceitful outlook without any risk of getting called up on it. He is desperate and would squeeze every ounce out of the slighted bit of success he can find. The astonishing part is that results are now being underplayed as long as we have plenty of possession, 33shots on target or simply carry the greater attacking threat whiles abandoning the basics of defending. You only have to look at the reaction after the United game to see the short memories and how confused the picture has become for many fans. It didn't matter that the obvious structural weaknesses which have been present for the past decade were on once again on show or the fact that you could go back in time and find many similar performances.
The crux of the matter is we will never ever compete for the biggest prizes, see players reach their true potential, play quality football or even play with pride on a consistent basis as long as Wenger remains in charge, so can someone remind me what we're benefitting from winning football games? I can never wish relegation on my club and cannot agree with anyone who does, but anything else is fair game imo.
Good points mate and one thing I would say is that many fans would look upon the 3 FA Cups as success and a benefit of winning games. For me that is too shortsighted and limited a view because it papers over the giant crack that is our inability to win (or even compete for) the PL and CL. But many fans seem to think that is good enough (the Cups) even though we pay the highest ticket prices and our average players are on superstar wages and our failing manager is one of the highest paid in the world. Maybe it's down to individual perspective or definitions of "success" but that is what any protest or movement to remove Wenger is up against - a mostly content fan base, a fickle media, a disinterested owner and a too-powerful manager.
There is literally nothing Wenger could do that will see Kroenke sack him. I honestly believe that. Even if we were relegated Wiggy would listen to the AKB and his financial advisers and it would be a combo of "who else could get us back into the PL" and shit like "he has earned the right to blah blah...". So how far are we willing to go? Relegation for 5 years? Down to the championship? Do a Forest? A Leeds? All in the hope that Wiggy will buck his well established trend and actually sack Wenger?
Unfortunately that is probably true. If there were 10s of thousands of people protesting regularly then that might force a change but we all know that is never going to happen no matter how bad it gets.
Realistically though how bad can it get? At the moment we are good for a top 6 place, but if Ozil/Alexis both go without being replaced we possibly could slip a few more places, however we aren't ever going to be serious relegation contenders.
With the events of last summer, where Wenger just bypassed the board and went straight to Kroenke, it does seem Wenger is here until he wants to leave. The only small light is that Kroenke has sacked coaches at the LA Rams recently when they underperform, but does he actually think Wenger is underperforming or does he believe Gazidis bullshit about overperforming?
How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??
I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .
I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.
I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.
Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.
Maybe I am wrong here, but I think that most fans want Arsenal to lose in the hope that it will accelerate wenker's departure, and not to spite him - the sentiments that you are talking about are a knock on effect where some people think that results will never affect his position (total bullshit imo) and thus want the b**tard to suffer for putting himself above the good of the club. Fans like me are willing to sacrifice almost anything in the short term, to ensure progress going forward - in other words we will accept short term failures/humiliations, in the hope that we have long term successes and not live forever on past glories (and that is exactly what the french c.unt is doing )
You are wrong. Well spotted.
Anyway here we go round this fucking circle again....
There is literally nothing Wenger could do that will see Kroenke sack him. I honestly believe that. Even if we were relegated Wiggy would listen to the AKB and his financial advisers and it would be a combo of "who else could get us back into the PL" and shit like "he has earned the right to blah blah...". So how far are we willing to go? Relegation for 5 years? Down to the championship? Do a Forest? A Leeds? All in the hope that Wiggy will buck his well established trend and actually sack Wenger?
Not directing this at anyone in particular more a general comment but it strikes me (and I've said it before) that is looks like some Gooners hate Wenger more than they love Arsenal and that is bizarre tbh.
Then you are a fool - we all agree that wiggy does not give a flying fcuk about the team results, but what he does very much care about is the business results of the club. Quite simply, a sustained run (over 2 or 3 seasons) of failing to make champs league or win silverware, will have a MASSIVE impact on matchday attendance - we are already seeing the evidence of this by the actual attendances at the bowl, and a sustained period of nothing will soon flush out the remaining tourists too. People will understandably point to the continued sale of season tickets as a reason why the club wont care and that is part of the problem, but that is only part of the equation imo - commercial partners (catering providers, kit suppliers, sponsors etc) will not want to allign themselves with a failing brand (at current prices at least) and half empty stadiums, so how will kroenke react to the fall in revenue commercially and in merchandising ? Do you honestly believe that kroenke will put loyalty to wenker above $$$ ?
There is a huge difference to the Arsenal situation and that of kroenke's american sports franchises - in most american cities they have one (two at most) professional clubs per city, and fans of that sport will either support their local franchise or walk away from the game altogether. In cities like London fans have choices of where they spend their hard earned cash, and the youngsters will be drawn to the more successful clubs - in latter years wenker and the club have purposely targetted the tourist market, and one of the knock on effects of that is that they have priced/driven out the old school loyal fans who will have followed the club through and thin, and the tourists certainly wont have loyalty to a club that charges top dollar for a second rate product
Also, what he said about Sterling is true. He is a cheating diving cúnt. Just because you don't like the messenger doesn't mean the message is untrue...
Which is your opinion. And Wenger is a truly nasty piece of work...that's my opinion.
Don't see Bergkamp or Viera praising Wenger to the rafters either...in fact I heard Viera cannot stand the man and gives him no credit for their success.
I met some lifelong gooners on the protest marches, sensible, switched on guys and Retro & I spoke to one very well informed, intelligent woman who absolutely loathe Wenger. Their insights into him were quite revelatory...these people were by no means lunatic fringe, they just expressed how they saw Wenger...and it wasn't just what he was doing to the club, it was the man himself........was difficult to argue with them.
How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??
I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .
I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.
I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.
Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.
Maybe I am wrong here, but I think that most fans want Arsenal to lose in the hope that it will accelerate wenker's departure, and not to spite him - the sentiments that you are talking about are a knock on effect where some people think that results will never affect his position (total bullshit imo) and thus want the b**tard to suffer for putting himself above the good of the club. Fans like me are willing to sacrifice almost anything in the short term, to ensure progress going forward - in other words we will accept short term failures/humiliations, in the hope that we have long term successes and not live forever on past glories (and that is exactly what the french c.unt is doing )
You are wrong. Well spotted.
Anyway here we go round this fucking circle again....
There is literally nothing Wenger could do that will see Kroenke sack him. I honestly believe that. Even if we were relegated Wiggy would listen to the AKB and his financial advisers and it would be a combo of "who else could get us back into the PL" and shit like "he has earned the right to blah blah...". So how far are we willing to go? Relegation for 5 years? Down to the championship? Do a Forest? A Leeds? All in the hope that Wiggy will buck his well established trend and actually sack Wenger?
Not directing this at anyone in particular more a general comment but it strikes me (and I've said it before) that is looks like some Gooners hate Wenger more than they love Arsenal and that is bizarre tbh.
Then you are a fool - we all agree that wiggy does not give a flying fcuk about the team results, but what he does very much care about is the business results of the club. Quite simply, a sustained run (over 2 or 3 seasons) of failing to make champs league or win silverware, will have a MASSIVE impact on matchday attendance - we are already seeing the evidence of this by the actual attendances at the bowl, and a sustained period of nothing will soon flush out the remaining tourists too. People will understandably point to the continued sale of season tickets as a reason why the club wont care and that is part of the problem, but that is only part of the equation imo - commercial partners (catering providers, kit suppliers, sponsors etc) will not want to allign themselves with a failing brand (at current prices at least) and half empty stadiums, so how will kroenke react to the fall in revenue commercially and in merchandising ? Do you honestly believe that kroenke will put loyalty to wenker above $$$ ?
There is a huge difference to the Arsenal situation and that of kroenke's american sports franchises - in most american cities they have one (two at most) professional clubs per city, and fans of that sport will either support their local franchise or walk away from the game altogether. In cities like London fans have choices of where they spend their hard earned cash, and the youngsters will be drawn to the more successful clubs - in latter years wenker and the club have purposely targetted the tourist market, and one of the knock on effects of that is that they have priced/driven out the old school loyal fans who will have followed the club through and thin, and the tourists certainly wont have loyalty to a club that charges top dollar for a second rate product
but I don't buy that either tbh. Every set of fans takes pride and enjoys the nostalgia of their great teams and achievements - what is wrong with that? It's not living in the past. It's part of what makes football great. It's not saying "ok we were once great, that will do". Wanting success and enjoying our clubs history are not mutually exclusive things.
)
