THE WENGER THREAD

[DB10GOONER]

There is literally nothing Wenger could do that will see Kroenke sack him. I honestly believe that. Even if we were relegated Wiggy would listen to the AKB and his financial advisers and it would be a combo of "who else could get us back into the PL" and shit like "he has earned the right to blah blah...". So how far are we willing to go? Relegation for 5 years? Down to the championship? Do a Forest? A Leeds? All in the hope that Wiggy will buck his well established trend and actually sack Wenger?

Unfortunately that is probably true. If there were 10s of thousands of people protesting regularly then that might force a change but we all know that is never going to happen no matter how bad it gets.

Realistically though how bad can it get? At the moment we are good for a top 6 place, but if Ozil/Alexis both go without being replaced we possibly could slip a few more places, however we aren't ever going to be serious relegation contenders.

With the events of last summer, where Wenger just bypassed the board and went straight to Kroenke, it does seem Wenger is here until he wants to leave. The only small light is that Kroenke has sacked coaches at the LA Rams recently when they underperform, but does he actually think Wenger is underperforming or does he believe Gazidis bullshit about overperforming?

That's the issue really - at what point does Kroenke think Wenger is not delivering what he wants. Not what the fans want but what he Kroenke wants. How far down the road do we need to go to get to the point where Kroenke says fuck this and sacks him? People saying the attendance drop will cause it - it won't, match day revenue is nothing compared to the TV deals. To them I'd say, so how far do we neeed to fall? As far as a Forest or a Leeds?

[augie]

I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.

I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.

Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.

Maybe I am wrong here, but I think that most fans want Arsenal to lose in the hope that it will accelerate wenker's departure, and not to spite him - the sentiments that you are talking about are a knock on effect where some people think that results will never affect his position (total bullshit imo) and thus want the b**tard to suffer for putting himself above the good of the club. Fans like me are willing to sacrifice almost anything in the short term, to ensure progress going forward - in other words we will accept short term failures/humiliations, in the hope that we have long term successes and not live forever on past glories (and that is exactly what the french c.unt is doing )

You are wrong. Well spotted.




Anyway here we go round this fucking circle again....

There is literally nothing Wenger could do that will see Kroenke sack him. I honestly believe that. Even if we were relegated Wiggy would listen to the AKB and his financial advisers and it would be a combo of "who else could get us back into the PL" and shit like "he has earned the right to blah blah...". So how far are we willing to go? Relegation for 5 years? Down to the championship? Do a Forest? A Leeds? All in the hope that Wiggy will buck his well established trend and actually sack Wenger?

Not directing this at anyone in particular more a general comment but it strikes me (and I've said it before) that is looks like some Gooners hate Wenger more than they love Arsenal and that is bizarre tbh.

Then you are a fool - we all agree that wiggy does not give a flying fcuk about the team results, but what he does very much care about is the business results of the club. Quite simply, a sustained run (over 2 or 3 seasons) of failing to make champs league or win silverware, will have a MASSIVE impact on matchday attendance - we are already seeing the evidence of this by the actual attendances at the bowl, and a sustained period of nothing will soon flush out the remaining tourists too. People will understandably point to the continued sale of season tickets as a reason why the club wont care and that is part of the problem, but that is only part of the equation imo - commercial partners (catering providers, kit suppliers, sponsors etc) will not want to allign themselves with a failing brand (at current prices at least) and half empty stadiums, so how will kroenke react to the fall in revenue commercially and in merchandising ? Do you honestly believe that kroenke will put loyalty to wenker above $$$ ?
There is a huge difference to the Arsenal situation and that of kroenke's american sports franchises - in most american cities they have one (two at most) professional clubs per city, and fans of that sport will either support their local franchise or walk away from the game altogether. In cities like London fans have choices of where they spend their hard earned cash, and the youngsters will be drawn to the more successful clubs - in latter years wenker and the club have purposely targetted the tourist market, and one of the knock on effects of that is that they have priced/driven out the old school loyal fans who will have followed the club through and thin, and the tourists certainly wont have loyalty to a club that charges top dollar for a second rate product

Drop that shit if you want to have a discussion.

Ah buddy dont be like that - I thought that you would have known that it was said in jest, and god knows that I have called you worse on here

[DB10GOONER]

Maybe I am wrong here, but I think that most fans want Arsenal to lose in the hope that it will accelerate wenker's departure, and not to spite him - the sentiments that you are talking about are a knock on effect where some people think that results will never affect his position (total bullshit imo) and thus want the b**tard to suffer for putting himself above the good of the club. Fans like me are willing to sacrifice almost anything in the short term, to ensure progress going forward - in other words we will accept short term failures/humiliations, in the hope that we have long term successes and not live forever on past glories (and that is exactly what the french c.unt is doing )

You are wrong. Well spotted.




Anyway here we go round this fucking circle again....

There is literally nothing Wenger could do that will see Kroenke sack him. I honestly believe that. Even if we were relegated Wiggy would listen to the AKB and his financial advisers and it would be a combo of "who else could get us back into the PL" and shit like "he has earned the right to blah blah...". So how far are we willing to go? Relegation for 5 years? Down to the championship? Do a Forest? A Leeds? All in the hope that Wiggy will buck his well established trend and actually sack Wenger?

Not directing this at anyone in particular more a general comment but it strikes me (and I've said it before) that is looks like some Gooners hate Wenger more than they love Arsenal and that is bizarre tbh.

Then you are a fool - we all agree that wiggy does not give a flying fcuk about the team results, but what he does very much care about is the business results of the club. Quite simply, a sustained run (over 2 or 3 seasons) of failing to make champs league or win silverware, will have a MASSIVE impact on matchday attendance - we are already seeing the evidence of this by the actual attendances at the bowl, and a sustained period of nothing will soon flush out the remaining tourists too. People will understandably point to the continued sale of season tickets as a reason why the club wont care and that is part of the problem, but that is only part of the equation imo - commercial partners (catering providers, kit suppliers, sponsors etc) will not want to allign themselves with a failing brand (at current prices at least) and half empty stadiums, so how will kroenke react to the fall in revenue commercially and in merchandising ? Do you honestly believe that kroenke will put loyalty to wenker above $$$ ?
There is a huge difference to the Arsenal situation and that of kroenke's american sports franchises - in most american cities they have one (two at most) professional clubs per city, and fans of that sport will either support their local franchise or walk away from the game altogether. In cities like London fans have choices of where they spend their hard earned cash, and the youngsters will be drawn to the more successful clubs - in latter years wenker and the club have purposely targetted the tourist market, and one of the knock on effects of that is that they have priced/driven out the old school loyal fans who will have followed the club through and thin, and the tourists certainly wont have loyalty to a club that charges top dollar for a second rate product

Drop that shit if you want to have a discussion.

Ah buddy dont be like that - I thought that you would have known that it was said in jest, and god knows that I have called you worse on here

Didn't read that way augie tbh. You know me, I'm all for the piss take - but you can't just call someone a fool for disagreeing with you unless you use emoticons - or call them a cúnt.

[GoonerMuzz]

As the saying goes, 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one'!!

From a personal point of view i don't support Wanker or Wiggy i support Arsenal, this causes issues, on one hand i want us to fail in the wishful thinking that it will bring about change but on the other hand i want us to win because its the team i support, immaterial of manager, owner of players.

It quite often feels on here that some peoples visceral hatred of Wenger far out weighs their support of the team they say they love, what needs to be realised is that even now a lot of fans going to the ground may still want Wenger/Kroenke gone but also want to support Arsenal at every match. It may be hard for some to recognise this fact as it goes against their personal opinion of what is right and sensible but it doesn't mean those match going supporters are wrong from their own personal point of view.

I believe that it is part of the reason it was so difficult to gain support for the protests, many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed and actually want to support the team at the same time.

[NickF]

I believe that it is part of the reason it was so difficult to gain support for the protests, many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed and actually want to support the team at the same time.

It is possible to both protest and support the team, last season many did exactly that. The problem I have is the "many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed" - not quite sure what the right way would be (although I know doing nothing isn't it).

[xisstential]

As the saying goes, 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one'!!

From a personal point of view i don't support Wanker or Wiggy i support Arsenal, this causes issues, on one hand i want us to fail in the wishful thinking that it will bring about change but on the other hand i want us to win because its the team i support, immaterial of manager, owner of players.

It quite often feels on here that some peoples visceral hatred of Wenger far out weighs their support of the team they say they love, what needs to be realised is that even now a lot of fans going to the ground may still want Wenger/Kroenke gone but also want to support Arsenal at every match. It may be hard for some to recognise this fact as it goes against their personal opinion of what is right and sensible but it doesn't mean those match going supporters are wrong from their own personal point of view.

I believe that it is part of the reason it was so difficult to gain support for the protests, many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed and actually want to support the team at the same time.

I don't quite know what to make of that statement. I also don't think people realise what lengths we actually went to, contacting journalists, trying to reason with them, make them see it from our point of view. Jumpers also spent a Sunday afternoon writing a well thought out and polite letter to Gazidis asking him to please listen to us, that we had the best interests of the club at heart. He didn't even bother to answer.

What should the next step have been...another letter??

People resort to desperate tactics when those in authority will not listen..Brexit, Trump, May's election......The club brought the protests, planes, projections on themselves. And it was mild by comparison...if Arsenal were Real,Barca, AC, Athletico, etc, Wenger would have resigned years ago through fear of personal harm.

[sk-gtfo]

As the saying goes, 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one'!!

From a personal point of view i don't support Wanker or Wiggy i support Arsenal, this causes issues, on one hand i want us to fail in the wishful thinking that it will bring about change but on the other hand i want us to win because its the team i support, immaterial of manager, owner of players.

It quite often feels on here that some peoples visceral hatred of Wenger far out weighs their support of the team they say they love, what needs to be realised is that even now a lot of fans going to the ground may still want Wenger/Kroenke gone but also want to support Arsenal at every match. It may be hard for some to recognise this fact as it goes against their personal opinion of what is right and sensible but it doesn't mean those match going supporters are wrong from their own personal point of view.

I believe that it is part of the reason it was so difficult to gain support for the protests, many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed and actually want to support the team at the same time.

The thing is what is left of "The Arsenal"?, the owner - a disinterested American who only sees the club as a monetary investment, a manager at least 10 years past his best who wont let go and has contempt for the fans, players who are largely average, no real characters, no one good enough to be forgiven their character flaws and a corporate bowl for a stadium, full of tourists and lacking any atmosphere.

I'm really not sure what there is left to 'love' other than historical achievements and traditions that no longer exist.

[DB10GOONER]

As the saying goes, 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one'!!

From a personal point of view i don't support Wanker or Wiggy i support Arsenal, this causes issues, on one hand i want us to fail in the wishful thinking that it will bring about change but on the other hand i want us to win because its the team i support, immaterial of manager, owner of players.

It quite often feels on here that some peoples visceral hatred of Wenger far out weighs their support of the team they say they love, what needs to be realised is that even now a lot of fans going to the ground may still want Wenger/Kroenke gone but also want to support Arsenal at every match. It may be hard for some to recognise this fact as it goes against their personal opinion of what is right and sensible but it doesn't mean those match going supporters are wrong from their own personal point of view.

I believe that it is part of the reason it was so difficult to gain support for the protests, many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed and actually want to support the team at the same time.

SPUDMASHER has two!

[OneBardGooner]

You are wrong. Well spotted.




Anyway here we go round this fucking circle again....

There is literally nothing Wenger could do that will see Kroenke sack him. I honestly believe that. Even if we were relegated Wiggy would listen to the AKB and his financial advisers and it would be a combo of "who else could get us back into the PL" and shit like "he has earned the right to blah blah...". So how far are we willing to go? Relegation for 5 years? Down to the championship? Do a Forest? A Leeds? All in the hope that Wiggy will buck his well established trend and actually sack Wenger?

Not directing this at anyone in particular more a general comment but it strikes me (and I've said it before) that is looks like some Gooners hate Wenger more than they love Arsenal and that is bizarre tbh.

Then you are a fool - we all agree that wiggy does not give a flying fcuk about the team results, but what he does very much care about is the business results of the club. Quite simply, a sustained run (over 2 or 3 seasons) of failing to make champs league or win silverware, will have a MASSIVE impact on matchday attendance - we are already seeing the evidence of this by the actual attendances at the bowl, and a sustained period of nothing will soon flush out the remaining tourists too. People will understandably point to the continued sale of season tickets as a reason why the club wont care and that is part of the problem, but that is only part of the equation imo - commercial partners (catering providers, kit suppliers, sponsors etc) will not want to allign themselves with a failing brand (at current prices at least) and half empty stadiums, so how will kroenke react to the fall in revenue commercially and in merchandising ? Do you honestly believe that kroenke will put loyalty to wenker above $$$ ?
There is a huge difference to the Arsenal situation and that of kroenke's american sports franchises - in most american cities they have one (two at most) professional clubs per city, and fans of that sport will either support their local franchise or walk away from the game altogether. In cities like London fans have choices of where they spend their hard earned cash, and the youngsters will be drawn to the more successful clubs - in latter years wenker and the club have purposely targetted the tourist market, and one of the knock on effects of that is that they have priced/driven out the old school loyal fans who will have followed the club through and thin, and the tourists certainly wont have loyalty to a club that charges top dollar for a second rate product

Drop that shit if you want to have a discussion.

Ah buddy dont be like that - I thought that you would have known that it was said in jest, and god knows that I have called you worse on here

Didn't read that way augie tbh. You know me, I'm all for the piss take - but you can't just call someone a fool for disagreeing with you unless you use emoticons - or call them a cúnt.

What about 'Foolish Vadge/*word censored*'?

[DB10GOONER]

Then you are a fool - we all agree that wiggy does not give a flying fcuk about the team results, but what he does very much care about is the business results of the club. Quite simply, a sustained run (over 2 or 3 seasons) of failing to make champs league or win silverware, will have a MASSIVE impact on matchday attendance - we are already seeing the evidence of this by the actual attendances at the bowl, and a sustained period of nothing will soon flush out the remaining tourists too. People will understandably point to the continued sale of season tickets as a reason why the club wont care and that is part of the problem, but that is only part of the equation imo - commercial partners (catering providers, kit suppliers, sponsors etc) will not want to allign themselves with a failing brand (at current prices at least) and half empty stadiums, so how will kroenke react to the fall in revenue commercially and in merchandising ? Do you honestly believe that kroenke will put loyalty to wenker above $$$ ?
There is a huge difference to the Arsenal situation and that of kroenke's american sports franchises - in most american cities they have one (two at most) professional clubs per city, and fans of that sport will either support their local franchise or walk away from the game altogether. In cities like London fans have choices of where they spend their hard earned cash, and the youngsters will be drawn to the more successful clubs - in latter years wenker and the club have purposely targetted the tourist market, and one of the knock on effects of that is that they have priced/driven out the old school loyal fans who will have followed the club through and thin, and the tourists certainly wont have loyalty to a club that charges top dollar for a second rate product

Drop that shit if you want to have a discussion.

Ah buddy dont be like that - I thought that you would have known that it was said in jest, and god knows that I have called you worse on here

Didn't read that way augie tbh. You know me, I'm all for the piss take - but you can't just call someone a fool for disagreeing with you unless you use emoticons - or call them a cúnt.

What about 'Foolish Vadge/*word censored*'?

At least that would be accurate....


Hey, hang on....

[Midz]

Dear Santa,

Please could we have a new manager this Xmas?

Thanks in advance.

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

How can you lads hate Wenger so much, want him out, but want Arsenal to achieve the exact things that are going to keep the bloody man in his job??

I can't understand that logic - if we keep on achieving "Just enough" then this awful nightmare will just go on and on and on . . . .

I'm not having a pop here Jumpers and I agree with 90% of your posts, mate, but the bit in red is the bit some of you guys don't seem to see or maybe don't want to see.... not everyone that wants him gone hates him. Certainly not everyone is completely wrapped up in that hatred to the extent they want shit things to happen to their club just to spite the man.

I certainly don't respect him anymore and I want him gone more than any Arsenal manager in my 40+ years supporting the club but I do not want us to fall spectacularly just to spite the man or indeed in some forlorn hope he will get sacked.

Forget Wenger taking credit for The Invincibles, let him, who cares? Remember that Vieira, Pires, Romford, Bergkamp and Henry also take credit and it is their record I'd hate to see equalled.

It's not because I'm a bitter old bastard (even though I am) I don't know the man and will never meet him.

I hate what he has done and is doing to our club. I hate the regular humiliations we have suffered since 2007. I hate the fact that opposing fans mock us. I hate that he is so smug, so arrogant, so unaccountable, so unwilling to accept the failings that we all see. I hate the fact that he thinks he is bullet proof. I hate the fact that nobody sees Arsenal as a serious contender anymore. I hate that Wenger lives off past glories.

It's taken me a long time to feel like that but that's where I am. Wenger has ruined my enjoyment of something that has given me so much enjoyment since the 1970s.

To strip it back to the core of our problem - in what way are those two beneficial to our club, beyond making a profit and just treading water?? Watching Arsenal is crap. Massively over priced crap and it has been since 2007. It could and should be so much better.

Surely it pisses you off to see Wenger smugly playing the role of Wise Old Sage when he's anything but? And watching him refuse to acknowledge any failings, no matter how many times we stumble? He treats all of us with contempt.

Our money props this whole charade up and what do we get in return? We plod along in the hope of finishing 4th, maybe a domestic cup run in the competitions that Wenger disrespected for years, regular humiliations in Europe ( and at home ) the best players want to leave, the average ones wont leave, dysfunctional back room staff. It's an insane way to run one of the biggest clubs in the world.

You say you dont want us to fall spectacularly DB, but as not enough people are willing to join the protests, what else have we got to end this nightmare?? Surely short term pain is better than this??

[GoonerMuzz]

Lets be honest spending a lot of money to watch a bunch of overpaid nonces kick about a ball of rubber with some leather around it filled with air around a datum flat green area is hardly the most logical of past times so expecting logic from football fans is hardly common sense.

I'm fairly sure those on the other side could argue that not supporting the team and manager yet calling ourselves Arsenal supporters is illogical too, people see things from different perspectives and to each person their own perspective seems logical most of the time.

Just because some on here are happy to protest to remove Wenger doesn't automatically mean that all Arsenal fans should feel the same way whether you like it or not you don't actually have the monopoly on how to be the best Arsenal supporters

I've said many times i do not believe that removing Wenger will change a significant amount at the club because the rest of regime and the attitude imbued by it will still remain, removing Wenger is 'not the beginning of the end but the end of the beginning' to quote a great man. To be quite frank some people i have spoken with who support Arsenal but didn't join the protests myself included had various reasons but one of the underlying ones that come up was that they did not like the perceived condescending attitude shown by some involved.

You can't spend time calling people a bunch of stupid AKBs, sheep and other interesting adjectives on here them expect them to follow your lead and as i warned at the time people were looking on here to see what was going on and yet at no time did some of you involved attempt to moderate the rhetoric being expressed on here to encourage those being disenfranchised by the club and slowly having their eyes opened to join in, there has always been an us and them attitude on here and it remains apparent that this has not changed and no lessons have been learned yet you still expect people to follow your lead blindly just because some of you say so........

As DB10 said a few weeks back this place has become fucking depressing to be around at times, yes we're all fed up with Wenger, Kroenke and everything else going on at the club but for fucks sake some on here need serious therapy

[franksav63]

As the saying goes, 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one'!!

From a personal point of view i don't support Wanker or Wiggy i support Arsenal, this causes issues, on one hand i want us to fail in the wishful thinking that it will bring about change but on the other hand i want us to win because its the team i support, immaterial of manager, owner of players.

It quite often feels on here that some peoples visceral hatred of Wenger far out weighs their support of the team they say they love, what needs to be realised is that even now a lot of fans going to the ground may still want Wenger/Kroenke gone but also want to support Arsenal at every match. It may be hard for some to recognise this fact as it goes against their personal opinion of what is right and sensible but it doesn't mean those match going supporters are wrong from their own personal point of view.

I believe that it is part of the reason it was so difficult to gain support for the protests, many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed and actually want to support the team at the same time.

The thing is what is left of "The Arsenal"?, the owner - a disinterested American who only sees the club as a monetary investment, a manager at least 10 years past his best who wont let go and has contempt for the fans, players who are largely average, no real characters, no one good enough to be forgiven their character flaws and a corporate bowl for a stadium, full of tourists and lacking any atmosphere.

I'm really not sure what there is left to 'love' other than historical achievements and traditions that no longer exist.

‘What is left of ‘The Arsenal’’ this is a great question!

The ground? Gone
The badge? Gone
The old school fans? Nearly gone
The club’s virtues like wearing the clubs suits? Gone
Wearing all the same length shirts? Gone
The club’s morals? Long gone!

The only thing, imo that is the same is the name! This really made my decision to up sticks and leave this now sham of a ‘club’ much easier! (Oops nearly forgot the old doddering senile *word censored* in charge)

In saying that I’m not saying a club should stand still but they should never forget the past and previous traditions it seems they’ve all been either binned/discarded or airbrushed from history!

As a wise man once said ‘there used to be a fine football club there once’

[OneBardGooner]

As the saying goes, 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one'!!

From a personal point of view i don't support Wanker or Wiggy i support Arsenal, this causes issues, on one hand i want us to fail in the wishful thinking that it will bring about change but on the other hand i want us to win because its the team i support, immaterial of manager, owner of players.

It quite often feels on here that some peoples visceral hatred of Wenger far out weighs their support of the team they say they love, what needs to be realised is that even now a lot of fans going to the ground may still want Wenger/Kroenke gone but also want to support Arsenal at every match. It may be hard for some to recognise this fact as it goes against their personal opinion of what is right and sensible but it doesn't mean those match going supporters are wrong from their own personal point of view.

I believe that it is part of the reason it was so difficult to gain support for the protests, many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed and actually want to support the team at the same time.

The thing is what is left of "The Arsenal"?, the owner - a disinterested American who only sees the club as a monetary investment, a manager at least 10 years past his best who wont let go and has contempt for the fans, players who are largely average, no real characters, no one good enough to be forgiven their character flaws and a corporate bowl for a stadium, full of tourists and lacking any atmosphere.

I'm really not sure what there is left to 'love' other than historical achievements and traditions that no longer exist.

‘What is left of ‘The Arsenal’’ this is a great question!

The ground? Gone
The badge? Gone
The old school fans? Nearly gone
The club’s virtues like wearing the clubs suits? Gone
Wearing all the same length shirts? Gone
The club’s morals? Long gone!

The only thing, imo that is the same is the name! This really made my decision to up sticks and leave this now sham of a ‘club’ much easier! (Oops nearly forgot the old doddering senile *word censored* in charge)

In saying that I’m not saying a club should stand still but they should never forget the past and previous traditions it seems they’ve all been either binned/discarded or airbrushed from history!

As a wise man once said ‘there used to be a fine football club there once’

Post of the week right there. Well said Frank! .