THE WENGER THREAD

[franksav63]

As the saying goes, 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one'!!

From a personal point of view i don't support Wanker or Wiggy i support Arsenal, this causes issues, on one hand i want us to fail in the wishful thinking that it will bring about change but on the other hand i want us to win because its the team i support, immaterial of manager, owner of players.

It quite often feels on here that some peoples visceral hatred of Wenger far out weighs their support of the team they say they love, what needs to be realised is that even now a lot of fans going to the ground may still want Wenger/Kroenke gone but also want to support Arsenal at every match. It may be hard for some to recognise this fact as it goes against their personal opinion of what is right and sensible but it doesn't mean those match going supporters are wrong from their own personal point of view.

I believe that it is part of the reason it was so difficult to gain support for the protests, many realise the need for change but don't feel right in the way it was expressed and actually want to support the team at the same time.

The thing is what is left of "The Arsenal"?, the owner - a disinterested American who only sees the club as a monetary investment, a manager at least 10 years past his best who wont let go and has contempt for the fans, players who are largely average, no real characters, no one good enough to be forgiven their character flaws and a corporate bowl for a stadium, full of tourists and lacking any atmosphere.

I'm really not sure what there is left to 'love' other than historical achievements and traditions that no longer exist.

‘What is left of ‘The Arsenal’’ this is a great question!

The ground? Gone
The badge? Gone
The old school fans? Nearly gone
The club’s virtues like wearing the clubs suits? Gone
Wearing all the same length shirts? Gone
The club’s morals? Long gone!

The only thing, imo that is the same is the name! This really made my decision to up sticks and leave this now sham of a ‘club’ much easier! (Oops nearly forgot the old doddering senile *word censored* in charge)

In saying that I’m not saying a club should stand still but they should never forget the past and previous traditions it seems they’ve all been either binned/discarded or airbrushed from history!

As a wise man once said ‘there used to be a fine football club there once’

Post of the week right there. Well said Frank! .

Cheers young man I think all ‘old school’ should just step back and think ‘What is still there at this moment in time’? Memories, Hmmm yes, Once they do that they’ll see it’s already a lost battle and for me personally it’s one that I’ll never return to......ever!!! So enjoy the here and now folks!!!

I will also add that since following Charlton I’ve got my football going mojo back, been to loads of different grounds, got a season ticket for myself and my boy for the combined total of £185.00 (10% of the cost of our previous Arsenal ones) and we
both have a great time without any outside arseholes giving us any grief!

There are also a few previous Arsenal season ticket holders doing the same not just at Charlton but at other clubs also!

Anyway I actually enjoy this version of Arsenal losing! Wenger going now? I don’t care anymore as this version of ‘The Arsenal’ is indeed the here and now and the previous one that we used to all love has gone forever!

Where’s LaughingGooner!!

[DB10GOONER]

Have to say, some fantastic posts on this thread over the last couple pages. Well played lads.

I can see both sides of the argument tbh. And at different times I lean towards one end or the other but I tend to then just drift back to the middle ground of wanting Wenger gone but not willing to see the club I still love humiliated and damaged further in the "longshot" hope that it would lead to his leaving or being fired. I still believe Wenger is the battle, Kroenke is the war, or Wenger is the synptom, Kroenke is the disease - because whilst our owner is a parasitic cúnt with no love for the game or the club then he will never sack Wenger and he may well let Wenger appoint his own puppet regime replacement manager at some point whilst Wenger moves upstairs to a nice director's salary. And then we are back to square one.

As I said Jumpers, I agree with at least 90% of your posts and I find I cannot argue against most of what you've said tbh, except that I don't feel the same level of hatred for Wenger and tbh his waffling shite talk and smugness irritate me but don't really enrage me. All managers are guilty of all the crimes you've listed - I suppose the difference being not all of them get away with it for 20+ years at one club.

Muzz, you've hit the elephant in the room square on the head in your comment about the perception of the protests - unfortunately.

I would just say though your comment is a bit sweeping in that not everyone involved in the protests was patronising and insulting to other potential protesters but there certainly was/is one or two who have actually and effectively put other people off getting involved because of the level of their childish insults, borish poisonous rancour and attention seeking self importance. But they were the absolute minority and the majority of the protesters and leaders/organisers did not go down that road and indeed tried hard to reign in the more mouthy/stupid among their numbers. Most of them did fantastic work at real cost to their time and pocket and should be respected for it I think.

Fwank, we've met over a few pints in happier times and I know you bleed Arsenal mate - to see a Gooner so disenfranchised with the club is terrible and tbh fucking depressing. I hope some day you (and that smashing brown velvet trackie ) find your way back the The Arsenal. Sincerely.

[augie]

Have to say, some fantastic posts on this thread over the last couple pages. Well played lads.

I can see both sides of the argument tbh. And at different times I lean towards one end or the other but I tend to then just drift back to the middle ground of wanting Wenger gone but not willing to see the club I still love humiliated and damaged further in the "longshot" hope that it would lead to his leaving or being fired. I still believe Wenger is the battle, Kroenke is the war, or Wenger is the synptom, Kroenke is the disease - because whilst our owner is a parasitic cúnt with no love for the game or the club then he will never sack Wenger and he may well let Wenger appoint his own puppet regime replacement manager at some point whilst Wenger moves upstairs to a nice director's salary. And then we are back to square one.

As I said Jumpers, I agree with at least 90% of your posts and I find I cannot argue against most of what you've said tbh, except that I don't feel the same level of hatred for Wenger and tbh his waffling shite talk and smugness irritate me but don't really enrage me. All managers are guilty of all the crimes you've listed - I suppose the difference being not all of them get away with it for 20+ years at one club.

Muzz, you've hit the elephant in the room square on the head in your comment about the perception of the protests - unfortunately.

I would just say though your comment is a bit sweeping in that not everyone involved in the protests was patronising and insulting to other potential protesters but there certainly was/is one or two who have actually and effectively put other people off getting involved because of the level of their childish insults, borish poisonous rancour and attention seeking self importance. But they were the absolute minority and the majority of the protesters and leaders/organisers did not go down that road and indeed tried hard to reign in the more mouthy/stupid among their numbers. Most of them did fantastic work at real cost to their time and pocket and should be respected for it I think.

Fwank, we've met over a few pints in happier times and I know you bleed Arsenal mate - to see a Gooner so disenfranchised with the club is terrible and tbh fucking depressing. I hope some day you (and that smashing brown velvet trackie ) find your way back the The Arsenal. Sincerely.

You're welcome

[DB10GOONER]

Have to say, some fantastic posts on this thread over the last couple pages. Well played lads.

I can see both sides of the argument tbh. And at different times I lean towards one end or the other but I tend to then just drift back to the middle ground of wanting Wenger gone but not willing to see the club I still love humiliated and damaged further in the "longshot" hope that it would lead to his leaving or being fired. I still believe Wenger is the battle, Kroenke is the war, or Wenger is the synptom, Kroenke is the disease - because whilst our owner is a parasitic cúnt with no love for the game or the club then he will never sack Wenger and he may well let Wenger appoint his own puppet regime replacement manager at some point whilst Wenger moves upstairs to a nice director's salary. And then we are back to square one.

As I said Jumpers, I agree with at least 90% of your posts and I find I cannot argue against most of what you've said tbh, except that I don't feel the same level of hatred for Wenger and tbh his waffling shite talk and smugness irritate me but don't really enrage me. All managers are guilty of all the crimes you've listed - I suppose the difference being not all of them get away with it for 20+ years at one club.

Muzz, you've hit the elephant in the room square on the head in your comment about the perception of the protests - unfortunately.

I would just say though your comment is a bit sweeping in that not everyone involved in the protests was patronising and insulting to other potential protesters but there certainly was/is one or two who have actually and effectively put other people off getting involved because of the level of their childish insults, borish poisonous rancour and attention seeking self importance. But they were the absolute minority and the majority of the protesters and leaders/organisers did not go down that road and indeed tried hard to reign in the more mouthy/stupid among their numbers. Most of them did fantastic work at real cost to their time and pocket and should be respected for it I think.

Fwank, we've met over a few pints in happier times and I know you bleed Arsenal mate - to see a Gooner so disenfranchised with the club is terrible and tbh fucking depressing. I hope some day you (and that smashing brown velvet trackie ) find your way back the The Arsenal. Sincerely.

You're welcome

[General]

Fair enough if people think losing would not weaken Wenger's position but winning certainly strengthens his position and allows him to continue to project this deceitful outlook without any risk of getting called up on it. He is desperate and would squeeze every ounce out of the slighted bit of success he can find. The astonishing part is that results are now being underplayed as long as we have plenty of possession, 33shots on target or simply carry the greater attacking threat whiles abandoning the basics of defending. You only have to look at the reaction after the United game to see the short memories and how confused the picture has become for many fans. It didn't matter that the obvious structural weaknesses which have been present for the past decade were on once again on show or the fact that you could go back in time and find many similar performances.
The crux of the matter is we will never ever compete for the biggest prizes, see players reach their true potential, play quality football or even play with pride on a consistent basis as long as Wenger remains in charge, so can someone remind me what we're benefitting from winning football games? I can never wish relegation on my club and cannot agree with anyone who does, but anything else is fair game imo.

But if you want us to lose every game and we do then we would deffo get relegated, or do you mean pick and choose the games we lose

I knew someone would mention this. The argument about relegation is academic anyway. All things equal we will finish no lower than 7th with our resources regardless of what others wish. Wenger would've lost the dressing room if we ended up in a relegation scrap and he'd duly get his marching orders. I don't believe SK's support is unconditional.

[General]

As I said Jumpers, I agree with at least 90% of your posts and I find I cannot argue against most of what you've said tbh, except that I don't feel the same level of hatred for Wenger and tbh his waffling shite talk and smugness irritate me but don't really enrage me. All managers are guilty of all the crimes you've listed - I suppose the difference being not all of them get away with it for 20+ years at one club.

phpBB [video]

As Xiistential said, if the media had the gumption to dig a bit more below the surface, we would see more of this manipulative and calculated nasty piece of work.

[DB10GOONER]

As I said Jumpers, I agree with at least 90% of your posts and I find I cannot argue against most of what you've said tbh, except that I don't feel the same level of hatred for Wenger and tbh his waffling shite talk and smugness irritate me but don't really enrage me. All managers are guilty of all the crimes you've listed - I suppose the difference being not all of them get away with it for 20+ years at one club.

phpBB [video]

As Xiistential said, if the media had the gumption to dig a bit more below the surface, we would see more of this manipulative and calculated nasty piece of work.

I agree we certainly would, but the media are shit. The gormless cúnts even joked about it on Sunday Supplement with the reference to the spread the Arsenal put on for the media at the pressers....

[augie]

Fair enough if people think losing would not weaken Wenger's position but winning certainly strengthens his position and allows him to continue to project this deceitful outlook without any risk of getting called up on it. He is desperate and would squeeze every ounce out of the slighted bit of success he can find. The astonishing part is that results are now being underplayed as long as we have plenty of possession, 33shots on target or simply carry the greater attacking threat whiles abandoning the basics of defending. You only have to look at the reaction after the United game to see the short memories and how confused the picture has become for many fans. It didn't matter that the obvious structural weaknesses which have been present for the past decade were on once again on show or the fact that you could go back in time and find many similar performances.
The crux of the matter is we will never ever compete for the biggest prizes, see players reach their true potential, play quality football or even play with pride on a consistent basis as long as Wenger remains in charge, so can someone remind me what we're benefitting from winning football games? I can never wish relegation on my club and cannot agree with anyone who does, but anything else is fair game imo.

But if you want us to lose every game and we do then we would deffo get relegated, or do you mean pick and choose the games we lose

I knew someone would mention this. The argument about relegation is academic anyway. All things equal we will finish no lower than 7th with our resources regardless of what others wish. Wenger would've lost the dressing room if we ended up in a relegation scrap and he'd duly get his marching orders. I don't believe SK's support is unconditional.

That is the point I was making - as soon as wiggy's investment starts showing a substantial decline, wenker will be removed as manager with haste

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

And that is the point that the protesters tried to make last season.

Arsenal will not move forward under Wenger. With him in charge the best we can hope for is a scrap for 4th place and a domestic cup run - a far cry from our previous achievements. We tried to create a situation where the owner was forced to make a decision - a decision that might be painful in the short term but is better in the long term.

If enough people had joined in, Kroenke would have had no choice. Fans have enormous power if only they'd choose to use it.

[DB10GOONER]

Fair enough if people think losing would not weaken Wenger's position but winning certainly strengthens his position and allows him to continue to project this deceitful outlook without any risk of getting called up on it. He is desperate and would squeeze every ounce out of the slighted bit of success he can find. The astonishing part is that results are now being underplayed as long as we have plenty of possession, 33shots on target or simply carry the greater attacking threat whiles abandoning the basics of defending. You only have to look at the reaction after the United game to see the short memories and how confused the picture has become for many fans. It didn't matter that the obvious structural weaknesses which have been present for the past decade were on once again on show or the fact that you could go back in time and find many similar performances.
The crux of the matter is we will never ever compete for the biggest prizes, see players reach their true potential, play quality football or even play with pride on a consistent basis as long as Wenger remains in charge, so can someone remind me what we're benefitting from winning football games? I can never wish relegation on my club and cannot agree with anyone who does, but anything else is fair game imo.

But if you want us to lose every game and we do then we would deffo get relegated, or do you mean pick and choose the games we lose

I knew someone would mention this. The argument about relegation is academic anyway. All things equal we will finish no lower than 7th with our resources regardless of what others wish. Wenger would've lost the dressing room if we ended up in a relegation scrap and he'd duly get his marching orders. I don't believe SK's support is unconditional.

That is the point I was making - as soon as wiggy's investment starts showing a substantial decline, wenker will be removed as manager with haste

I actually agree with that tbh. But it would have to be a serious dip in profit. And even then I don't think it will happen soon. Kroenke is a crunt but he ain't stupid. He and his advisors will have a plan to accomodate any huge drop in match attendance etc. I can see a future where Arsenal (and most big PL clubs in general) will have done away with the old school support and replaced it with 75-90% tourists and the match tickets will come with complimentary "Sights of London" passes and West End show tickets and a nice hotel booking. Think I'm mental? Maybe. But that is the perfect "customer" concept for the absolute cúnts that are trying to kill the game we all love. And it will happen to some extent.

[Gunner Rob]

And that is the point that the protesters tried to make last season.

Arsenal will not move forward under Wenger. With him in charge the best we can hope for is a scrap for 4th place and a domestic cup run - a far cry from our previous achievements. We tried to create a situation where the owner was forced to make a decision - a decision that might be painful in the short term but is better in the long term.

If enough people had joined in, Kroenke would have had no choice. Fans have enormous power if only they'd choose to use it.

the flaw in your argument is that whilst the old school support are annoyed that we no longer challenge for the title, the new supporters at the Emirates are not that bothered. they are quite happy with the cup runs - and lets face it we are the most successful domestic cup side in the country over the past few seasons.

I have also noticed what else seems to be happening at both Arsenal and football in general - a complete disconnect between the match you go to watch and other matches in either the league or cup. For example in the not too distant past most league fixtures would kick off at the same time and there would be the excitement of finding out what other teams were doing, people took radios to the ground etc.
When the new TV deal comes in 2019 over HALF of all PL fixtures will be stand alone matches, and that connection is lost. You see it too with the European nights - the Europa League have some matches at 6pm and some at 8pm. This will be extended to the CL next season, diluting the excitement of that yet further.

Then you have what is happening at the ground - I notice now at Arsenal that ALL of the screens are now set to Arsenal's in house TV, so all the focus is on the match you are watching and nothing else. This seems to be a new development. I am sure last season they would have SKY sports on so that you could get to watch some of another match at half time and get reports from other grounds about how other teams were doing.
Everything is focused on making you pay attention just to that one Arsenal game, so if City are for example winning 6-0 elsewhere that suddenly becomes less important...

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

But DB - part of the protests were trying to make people see that tourists will only pay to watch a successful Arsenal. We accept that is inevitable in the modern world and especially in London.

However, the road that Wenger is taking us down is removing us slowly but surely from the London tourist scene. That will leave us with no Old School, minimum tourists and not much else.

I was in New York in the 90s as my girlfriend was working there. I remember going to see the New York Jets as tickets were available at one of the Times Sq outlets. It was utter, utter shit. The Jets had been a great team but they were dying on their feet and their huge stadium was about half full. The game was awful, really unexciting and they lost. I never went again.

That's where Arsenal are heading which is why we're so passionate about forcing change. Reading Frank's last post sums it all up!!

[xisstential]

As I said Jumpers, I agree with at least 90% of your posts and I find I cannot argue against most of what you've said tbh, except that I don't feel the same level of hatred for Wenger and tbh his waffling shite talk and smugness irritate me but don't really enrage me. All managers are guilty of all the crimes you've listed - I suppose the difference being not all of them get away with it for 20+ years at one club.

phpBB [video]

As Xiistential said, if the media had the gumption to dig a bit more below the surface, we would see more of this manipulative and calculated nasty piece of work.

Ghastly man...when he comes on the tv I immediately mute it...I don't know how the journalists sit through it...as DB said...must be the food.

I actually think if one journalist continued to ask "difficult" questions at every presser his editor would politely be asked to send somebody else. The place is run like a stronghold...how can a supposedly free press be so craven???

[franksav63]

Have to say, some fantastic posts on this thread over the last couple pages. Well played lads.

I can see both sides of the argument tbh. And at different times I lean towards one end or the other but I tend to then just drift back to the middle ground of wanting Wenger gone but not willing to see the club I still love humiliated and damaged further in the "longshot" hope that it would lead to his leaving or being fired. I still believe Wenger is the battle, Kroenke is the war, or Wenger is the synptom, Kroenke is the disease - because whilst our owner is a parasitic cúnt with no love for the game or the club then he will never sack Wenger and he may well let Wenger appoint his own puppet regime replacement manager at some point whilst Wenger moves upstairs to a nice director's salary. And then we are back to square one.

As I said Jumpers, I agree with at least 90% of your posts and I find I cannot argue against most of what you've said tbh, except that I don't feel the same level of hatred for Wenger and tbh his waffling shite talk and smugness irritate me but don't really enrage me. All managers are guilty of all the crimes you've listed - I suppose the difference being not all of them get away with it for 20+ years at one club.

Muzz, you've hit the elephant in the room square on the head in your comment about the perception of the protests - unfortunately.

I would just say though your comment is a bit sweeping in that not everyone involved in the protests was patronising and insulting to other potential protesters but there certainly was/is one or two who have actually and effectively put other people off getting involved because of the level of their childish insults, borish poisonous rancour and attention seeking self importance. But they were the absolute minority and the majority of the protesters and leaders/organisers did not go down that road and indeed tried hard to reign in the more mouthy/stupid among their numbers. Most of them did fantastic work at real cost to their time and pocket and should be respected for it I think.

Fwank, we've met over a few pints in happier times and I know you bleed Arsenal mate - to see a Gooner so disenfranchised with the club is terrible and tbh fucking depressing. I hope some day you (and that smashing brown velvet trackie ) find your way back the The Arsenal. Sincerely.

Thanks DB, but I’ll never be back I can’t see the Arsenal that we all used to know and love coming back!

I very much liken the situation at Arsenal with a pub that wants to move the hipster set in! They slowly force out all the old time regulars by changing things, the music, the beer (craft beers), the food to a poncey one, (more expensive) the furnishings, settees, a bookcase etc etc it’s a total gentrification!

Why, because tourists and hipsters don’t typically cause trouble! They go with the flow and this is what’s happen at Arsenal but on a larger scale!

2 pubs in my area The Blind Beggar and opposite, The White Hart have gone through this process whilst all the regulars have been forced out and gone to more traditional pubs!

I will definitely not be back I can guarantee that as I just treat this version of Arsenal as a different club now the only thing the sane there is the name! (And of course a has been senile manager who probably loves the transistion as it keeps him in job longer)

[NickF]

But DB - part of the protests were trying to make people see that tourists will only pay to watch a successful Arsenal. We accept that is inevitable in the modern world and especially in London.

However, the road that Wenger is taking us down is removing us slowly but surely from the London tourist scene. That will leave us with no Old School, minimum tourists and not much else.

I was in New York in the 90s as my girlfriend was working there. I remember going to see the New York Jets as tickets were available at one of the Times Sq outlets. It was utter, utter shit. The Jets had been a great team but they were dying on their feet and their huge stadium was about half full. The game was awful, really unexciting and they lost. I never went again.

That's where Arsenal are heading which is why we're so passionate about forcing change. Reading Frank's last post sums it all up!!

My brother is a Jets fan and we've seen them quite a few times. That was just after the "New York Sack Exchange" and they were poor with people "bagging up" during the games. Truth is, they probably aren't a lot better even now which is a worrying similarity to the Arsenal.

Wenger has basically hit on the formula that to keep his job he doesn't have to be competitive in the league as long as he delivers a cup everyone is happy. Realistically why bother trying to finish top after 38 games when you can get a cup for a 6 game run with a few lower league sides on the way.