As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
CihanArsenalFC wrote:Nowadays you hear that he is not always even in charge of all training sessions.
Sounds like a good thing to me, Fergie takes very few training sessions at Manure, the reason for that is he is able to delegate and recognises his staffs stengths and his own comparative weaknesses. Wenger is power mad, he is convinced no one can do any element of his job better than him when that is clearly not true.
I agree with you that I don't want him to have to leave in an embarassing manner, but it's getting to the stage where it looks like it is either that or he doesn't leave and no one is more important than the club. If you gave me a choice of Wenger being hounded out in the summer or him still being there in August I would take the former.
The boards biggest problem is they don't have the guts to hold the team manager responsible for the results on the field today. They are completely blinded by his past success and his ability to make the club money regardless of results.
Skooner wrote: If you gave me a choice of Wenger being hounded out in the summer or him still being there in August I would take the former.
Agree completely mate but there's a massive flaw in that plan:-
so many people on here say "Let's give him til the end of the season" but that is an enormous cop-out. Why??? Because there's f u c k all we can do by way of protest once the season has finished. We all go home after the last match and don't meet up again til the Emirates Cup in August, by which time 1 or 2 players have been sold and we're right to square f u c k i n g one.
We need to be hounding now, otherwise nothing (and I mean nothing) will ever change.
The point was made earlier about how Villa or Forest fans would never have thought in 1979, 1980 or 1981 that their clubs would be where they are now. We'll reach a tipping point soon where the type of players that could get us out of this mess won't want to come to a club that so obviously lacks ambition and won't pay top dollar.
WENGER OUT PROTESTS MUST START NOW - NOT IN THE SUMMER!
DB10GOONER wrote:
I don't agree. Any half competent manager could sort us out better than Wenger has. A half decent manager would look at the players, look at their strengths and play to a system that suits those players, not try to wedge players into a ridiculous Barca-Lite tippy tappy passing game they are ill-equipped for. It's basic stuff; play to your strengths, be pragmatic, don't play players out of position in large numbers.
+1
we can't even do the basics with a team of internationals out.
we haven't even had three wins or three clean sheets in a row this year.
i was watching Rodgers and 'arry talking in their post match interviews last night - both emphasized the work and preparation being put in on the training fields to get the basics rights. rodgers quite rightly applauded his team for the effort getting three clean sheets in his last three games.
whereas when we win the Wise Woman smirks and says 'well i always knew we had the quality'....
i'm less worried about us catching the Chavs now than i am having Everton and/or Liverpool overtake us - as I don't see us getting anything from the Swansea, West Brom, Everton or United games.
we should beat wigan, reading and norwich at home but that's not guaranteed.
First three games of the season. But then Wenger 'allegedly' got upset and jealous because of all the praise Stevie Bould was getting for it, decided to stick his oar in and it's been downhill ever since.
I agree with most of the rest of your post though.
CihanArsenalFC wrote:
It is the Board and the owners that I have my big issue with. They do not have the competence to run a football club and once AW has gone it will be interesting to see how things unfold. We will need a very special manager to sort things out.
You put your argument across well, mate. But I only want to address that last point.
Fraid I dont agree DB. imo his post is full of contradictions and full of typical Wenger supporter fuzz and nonsense .
..........I do love the bloke. That does not make me an AKB........
Actually I just meant he wrote it quite well. Absolutely don't agree with anything he wrote though!
Oh - except the loving Wenger and not neccessarily being an AKB bit. I STILL love Wenger. I want him gone the fuck out of our club more than I've ever wanted any manager gone but I can't bring myself to hate him. Hate is not something I dish around lightly. I respect him and I'll forever be grateful for what he gave us between 1997 and 2006. I'm saddened and frustrated by what he has become and as I say I want him gone, but I still love the man. He's like a best friend that has betrayed your trust. It hurts and you'll never trust him again, but you can't quite bring yourself to hate him because of all the great times you had as mates.
After watching Utd and Madrid last night, I got really annoyed. I was mainly annoyed that Wenger hasn't changed tactics (other than shape - we still play the same) in the entire time that he has been at Arsenal. That is rank lazy management. When you look at Utd, they were pinging balls diagonally, over the top and out wide to wingers or fullbacks to cross into the box. There were always at least 2 men in the box to try to get on the end of the efforts.
When that didn't work, they would go through the middle or shoot from distance. Essentially, they pull the defenders all over the place with their attack. Even their set-pieces are relatively potent while ours is pretty poor (although better this year than others).
Meanwhile, we try one-two's through the middle and cut-backs from the byline. Our wide play is abysmal. We essentially ignore all other forms of attack. That is why even League 2 teams can work us out tactically - because we play one way. We never deviate from this.
Even during the Invincibles, we played exactly the same way, with the exception that the shape was different and the players were a lot better than they are now, so they could counter a team sitting deep and narrow. We had players who could create something out of nothing. We don't have that now, so we need to evolve, but Wenger continues to set up and coach the players exactly the same.
And the results show this to be the case. We may have shots on target, but how many of those test the keeper? Or are clear-cut chances? Nowadays, an opposing keeper doesn't need to play a blinder against us because we simply do not offer enough going forward. Lloris didn't have to work against us last weekend and I can think of many, many examples of this occurring this year.
Sorry for the rant - I know that I shouldn't be comparing our attack with Utd, but watching them and thinking about our attack got me very depressed. We are unlikely to see any sort of deviation next year with Wenger at the helm.
begeegs wrote:After watching Utd and Madrid last night, I got really annoyed. I was mainly annoyed that Wenger hasn't changed tactics (other than shape - we still play the same) in the entire time that he has been at Arsenal. That is rank lazy management. When you look at Utd, they were pinging balls diagonally, over the top and out wide to wingers or fullbacks to cross into the box. There were always at least 2 men in the box to try to get on the end of the efforts.
When that didn't work, they would go through the middle or shoot from distance. Essentially, they pull the defenders all over the place with their attack. Even their set-pieces are relatively potent while ours is pretty poor (although better this year than others).
Meanwhile, we try one-two's through the middle and cut-backs from the byline. Our wide play is abysmal. We essentially ignore all other forms of attack. That is why even League 2 teams can work us out tactically - because we play one way. We never deviate from this.
Even during the Invincibles, we played exactly the same way, with the exception that the shape was different and the players were a lot better than they are now, so they could counter a team sitting deep and narrow. We had players who could create something out of nothing. We don't have that now, so we need to evolve, but Wenger continues to set up and coach the players exactly the same.
And the results show this to be the case. We may have shots on target, but how many of those test the keeper? Or are clear-cut chances? Nowadays, an opposing keeper doesn't need to play a blinder against us because we simply do not offer enough going forward. Lloris didn't have to work against us last weekend and I can think of many, many examples of this occurring this year.
Sorry for the rant - I know that I shouldn't be comparing our attack with Utd, but watching them and thinking about our attack got me very depressed. We are unlikely to see any sort of deviation next year with Wenger at the helm.
I said exactly the same thing last night. It is so predicatable.
begeegs wrote:After watching Utd and Madrid last night, I got really annoyed. I was mainly annoyed that Wenger hasn't changed tactics (other than shape - we still play the same) in the entire time that he has been at Arsenal. That is rank lazy management. When you look at Utd, they were pinging balls diagonally, over the top and out wide to wingers or fullbacks to cross into the box. There were always at least 2 men in the box to try to get on the end of the efforts.
When that didn't work, they would go through the middle or shoot from distance. Essentially, they pull the defenders all over the place with their attack. Even their set-pieces are relatively potent while ours is pretty poor (although better this year than others).
Meanwhile, we try one-two's through the middle and cut-backs from the byline. Our wide play is abysmal. We essentially ignore all other forms of attack. That is why even League 2 teams can work us out tactically - because we play one way. We never deviate from this.
Even during the Invincibles, we played exactly the same way, with the exception that the shape was different and the players were a lot better than they are now, so they could counter a team sitting deep and narrow. We had players who could create something out of nothing. We don't have that now, so we need to evolve, but Wenger continues to set up and coach the players exactly the same.
And the results show this to be the case. We may have shots on target, but how many of those test the keeper? Or are clear-cut chances? Nowadays, an opposing keeper doesn't need to play a blinder against us because we simply do not offer enough going forward. Lloris didn't have to work against us last weekend and I can think of many, many examples of this occurring this year.
Sorry for the rant - I know that I shouldn't be comparing our attack with Utd, but watching them and thinking about our attack got me very depressed. We are unlikely to see any sort of deviation next year with Wenger at the helm.
For me it's the crux of the problem with Wenger. He was ahead of his time and his system worked between 1997 and 2006 - but only because of the quality of player we had and the fact that most teams didn't know how to counter it effectively. Now we don't have the quality needed and every single team has worked out how to counter us and in effect nullify us. Yet Wenger still plods on through with the same old system.
Another surprise... What will it take for you to be against the *word censored* that is Wenger? Relegation?
I just don't what folk here see. I don't selectively look for detrimental gossip from the daily rags or twatter and use them to support my argument, I don't selectively misquote others I don't ignore things that paint a different picture from the generally conceived one hereabout.
Relegation? maybe but are we near that?, no we bloody aren't and won't be FFS... that is infantile imo to suggest such a thing. I remain in the majority and find this forum sad and misguided and while I among others who refuse to want our manager out, are referred to as sheep, idiots, morons etc, I feel it only right to make the point that on this forum it is clear there is a flock mentality and like attracts like and never was there more an accurate representation of how sheep work that there is here for many.
Another surprise... What will it take for you to be against the *word censored* that is Wenger? Relegation?
I just don't what folk here see. I don't selectively look for detrimental gossip from the daily rags or twatter and use them to support my argument, I don't selectively misquote others I don't ignore things that paint a different picture from the generally conceived one hereabout.
Relegation? maybe but are we near that?, no we bloody aren't and won't be FFS... that is infantile imo to suggest such a thing. I remain in the majority and find this forum sad and misguided and while I among others who refuse to want our manager out, are referred to as sheep, idiots, morons etc, I feel it only right to make the point that on this forum it is clear there is a flock mentality and like attracts like and never was there more an accurate representation of how sheep work that there is here for many.
There that's my rant done.
Mate, you just joined the long list of previous AKB's that couldn't put up an effective, honest argument in favour of Wenger staying, and instead just started insulting other posters. Whilst some of the WOB's on here also throw the insults about too, they don't do it INSTEAD of posting their point.
Steve people here are hardly reliant on rags and Twatter - sure some things will get posted from there (almost exclusively from McDowell) but if you want people's position with all of that stripped away and only cold hard facts then here it is:
- Not only are we trophyless in 8 years but we've also barely got near winning anything in that time - 3 finals (of which 2 were Beer Cup).
- Complete refusal to adapt our game whatsoever based on opposition as evidenced by his own recent quotes.
- Faith repeatedly and blindly placed in the wrong tactics (what have we won under this 4-5-1???), wrong players (too long to list) and wrong general approach to signings and philosophy.
- Several huge embarrassments in recent years like blowing a 4 goal lead at Newcastle, losing to relegated Birmingham in the cup final, pissed on 8-2 by United, pissed on 4-0 at Milan and now dumped out of domestic cups by Bradford and Blackburn.
All this has led people on here to conclude that we are only heading one way under Wenger - backwards. And there's absolutely nothing to suggest that we look like turning it round under Wenger because we're worse every year.
DB10GOONER wrote:
Mate, you just joined the long list of previous AKB's that couldn't put up an effective, honest argument in favour of Wenger staying, and instead just started insulting other posters. Whilst some of the WOB's on here also throw the insults about too, they don't do it INSTEAD of posting their point.
fair comment, my anger has gone but needed to get it out.
northbank123 wrote:
All this has led people on here to conclude that we are only heading one way under Wenger - backwards. And there's absolutely nothing to suggest that we look like turning it round under Wenger because we're worse every year.
Yep I can see that's why folk have concluded that but I disagree that things will not improve. I do not feel we are as low as folk make out and in fact are still in fair shape. The article from forbes recently linked in the 'board etc', thread is where I sit in terms of how I think things are and will be.
I've said it before that I do not feel I have to justify why I feel what I feel just because others think I'm wrong when I believe it is they who are wrong. The fact thata such as me get abused and slagged of by many is what makes it so hard to comment on here. The one time I get a little angry and DB immediately 'writes me off with all the other AKBs' as simply as that.
But then Wenger 'allegedly' got upset and jealous because of all the praise Stevie Bould was getting for it, decided to stick his oar in and it's been downhill ever since. 
