United Game away

[DB10GOONER]

"I think it speaks for itself. I played there eight years and had a fantastic time there. I have respect for the fans, the players, the manager and the whole club."

Eight years in which he won 1 FA Cup as a bit part player when we had world class players

In 1 year at United he won something he could have tried and failed to win for another 10 years under Wenger

Just one point of order I'd like to make, SteveO. Because it is similar to a discussion augie and I had, I'll quote some of what I responded to him with:

RVJC didn't play with "world class players" very often, if at all. RVJC joined us in 2004. Average Al joined in 2004, LegoHead in 2006, Bendtner in 2005. Add to that Mong in 2005, Djourou in 2004, Barndoor in 2006, Senderos in 2003, Comedy Eboue in 2005... I could go on....

Most were regulars (or at least getting games) by 2007/2008. I would say that RVJC didn’t play in any great Arsenal teams. He missed the boat on that one.

Bergkamp left in 2006, Henry in 2007, Pires in 2006, Freddie in 2007, Sol in 2006.... again, I could go on... For most of his time on his arse in the treatment room he was in an Arsenal squad loaded with shit and only spent a couple of seasons in one with any real quality to it.

So my question again to anyone that thinks RVJC did anything but look after his own interest (even though he owed us, to my mind) is; why didn’t RVJC question our ambition in 2007? Or after we fucked the PL away in 2008? Why not in 2009 or 2010? Why wait until 2012? Why wait until he has that one great season?

[SteveO 35]

"I think it speaks for itself. I played there eight years and had a fantastic time there. I have respect for the fans, the players, the manager and the whole club."

Eight years in which he won 1 FA Cup as a bit part player when we had world class players

In 1 year at United he won something he could have tried and failed to win for another 10 years under Wenger

Just one point of order I'd like to make, SteveO. Because it is similar to a discussion augie and I had, I'll quote some of what I responded to him with:

RVJC didn't play with "world class players" very often, if at all. RVJC joined us in 2004. Average Al joined in 2004, LegoHead in 2006, Bendtner in 2005. Add to that Mong in 2005, Djourou in 2004, Barndoor in 2006, Senderos in 2003, Comedy Eboue in 2005... I could go on....

Most were regulars (or at least getting games) by 2007/2008. I would say that RVJC didn’t play in any great Arsenal teams. He missed the boat on that one.

Bergkamp left in 2006, Henry in 2007, Pires in 2006, Freddie in 2007, Sol in 2006.... again, I could go on... For most of his time on his arse in the treatment room he was in an Arsenal squad loaded with shit and only spent a couple of seasons in one with any real quality to it.

So my question again to anyone that thinks RVJC did anything but look after his own interest (even though he owed us, to my mind) is; why didn’t RVJC question our ambition in 2007? Or after we fucked the PL away in 2008? Why not in 2009 or 2010? Why wait until 2012? Why wait until he has that one great season?

I think we're in agreement for the most part....the reason I mentioned 2005 was because at that point we did still have world class players, but you're right in that after that we signed all of the shite you mentioned and let all the good guys go

Of course he looked after his own interest - not sure who is saying he didn't. In the years you mentioned say between 2006 and 2011 he was often injured and United had better options than him (Tevez, Ronaldo) and so did Chelsea who chose to sign whoever the latest top striker was from Shevchenko to Torres and anyone else going

Van Persie knew after that one immense season he could name his price at another club and he took the chance to do so. All about timing, United needed him, he had put himself into the shop window and at 29 had one last chance to decide whether to stay with us and have 3-4 more years of winning nothing under Wenger or move somewhere where he could win stuff. I don't especially blame him for leaving

[northbank123]

Very angry and bitter this morning, completely let us down yesterday. It was a golden opportunity and instead of at least having the balls to try and take it we cowered away and gifted them a win that will kickstart their season. The atmosphere at their ground has been so tense and it's taken its toll on their performances, but predictably by putting in such a limp performance yesterday the place was lively and the win will give them belief.

Like Steve0 said, Wenger was happy enough to set up recklessly and have a go when there was a chasm between the two teams and as a result we suffered games like the 8-2, the 4-0, the CL semi. But when we should have shown some endeavour yesterday and gone up there to outplay them and beat them, we set up as negatively as I've ever seen us and barely managed an effort on goal.

It's not just that we didn't take the opportunity, it's that we didn't give ourselves a chance.

[DB10GOONER]

As for the game. Ozil was shit. Cazorla was shit. Giroud was shit. Ramsey was shit. Gibbs was shit. I could go on.

The fact is when so many players are obviously playing shit, you will lose. Why were they shit? Tired? The "virus" that sent Mert and Rosicky home? Nerves? I don't know.

We were so lazy and lethargic and poor in the first half it also shows how shit Manure are that they weren't 4 nil up by half time. We were a bit better in the 2nd half in that we had more posession and put them on the back foot. But still we couldn't penetrate and couldn't score. We reduced our game back to the standstill tippy tappy game we've suffered through for the last 5 years and ultimately went nowhere.

Two major questions. Why was Ramsey put out wide? He cannot play out wide. Wenger should have put Ozil out wide. Ozil is off form anyway, but he has some experience out wide and can play there, whereas Ramsey has proven year after year he cannot play out wide. This season though he has proven he can be our best player in the middle. You must look at the best player currently in that position and fucking play them there. Move Ramsey out wide to accomodate an out of form Ozil?? Fucking tragic mistake by Wenger.

Second question. Why are we persisting with zonal fucking marking? And, as Carragher pointed out, without using blocking players? What type of fucking idiot believes it is a good idea to let your oppo get a ten yard run at you in the hope you can match their jump with a two step build up? Ramsey looked at RVJC lining up then put his hands on his hips and just walked away. I couldn't believe it.

Lastly, why is the Fat Drunk still getting on the pitch? He is hopelessly shit. First involvement? Loses posession cheaply. Second involvement? He lets one of their players jog right past him in the box and nearly score. Every touch he has is shit. He is shit.

Having said all that, it isn't the end of the world. I'd have taken two wins out of those three games anyday, but still this was our best chance of finally putting the 8-2 to bed and we couldn't do it. We will not win this league unless Wenger buys in 3 or 4 world class players in January. We will not win this league so...

[Ryanswannell]

Still majorly fucked off that we lost to these. Even more so now that United fans everywhere are piping up giving it the big one on social media, where this time last week you would struggle to hear a peep from them.

Fuck Utd and fuck their fans

[Simon]

We looked flat, uninspired and tired. Özil looked like he would rather have been somewhere else. I also think the game proved Ramsey only sparkles when played in the centre. United were not that brilliant either.

[Sam59]

I still can't understand the mentality of players who have just beaten Dortmund (with a bit of luck, but beaten them), then don't turn up at O.T when there's a chance to go 5 points clear and bury Utd as rivals. The limp, disjointed, slow, "I'm so tired" type of performance just infuriates me.
Only excuse I'll accept is that they were all unwell.

[Rugby Gooner]

The bottom line is we choked again at Old Trafford.Wenger had some pre-match excuse about a bug in the squad,but I have not heard it mentioned in any post game analysis on S.S.N. or Radio 5 Live.
Maybe he confused "having the shits",with them just,"shiiting themselves."
I obviously wanted them to win,would have taken the draw,but was half expecting the capitulation.

[GranadaJoe]

I said before the game that I was worried about Cazorla at OT. When he's good he's great but his work off the ball, particularly defensively, is woeful. He should have been taken off at half time (has AW ever made a tactical substitution at HT?).
Ozil was poor (and has been for a few games). He's clearly a top player, but the media have put him on a pedestal and eulogise over everything he does (like they used to with Hoddle etc). I don't know what the problem is but he's looked off the pace for a few games now.
I'll give Giroud the benefit of the doubt. With so little pace and penetration in our midfield he was outnumbered throughout the match (which also makes picking him out with a cross difficult).

I hope a lot of our players were ill, because I can't understand how top players suddenly can't find a team mate with a ten yard pass. Please don't let it be a massive lack of balls just because we're at OT.

[MrT]

I've heard that in the medical teams infinite wisdom decided to give the squad flu jabs the day before, 4 actually got the flu (Per, Arteta, Rosicky, Ozil) and Per and Rosicky were too ill to play.

If this is true then the club truly have reached a new level of incompetence.

[SPARKSY]

We looked flat, uninspired and tired. Özil looked like he would rather have been somewhere else. I also think the game proved Ramsey only sparkles when played in the centre. United were not that brilliant either.

You're right. We did look flat. Maybe 3 very big games in a week caught up with us. Not at the races in the first half but certainly the better team in the second.
A game of few chances but it does show we are desperate for a top striker. We all know Bendtner is cack and it showed again how short we are in that department that we had to use him again yesterday. With a better striker we would have come out of it with at least a point which is the annoying thing.
We know this season we can play a lot better so i wouldn't look too much into this result.

However, United shouldn't crow too much. If that is the most they can offer then it doesn't say a lot. They didn't deserves to win but as it is in these sort of games got the break.
They rely heavily on VP. Without him scoring they struggle. Certainly not a team to fear this season.
Moyes has them playing very defensively and certainly not like the United teams of old.

We will lose more games along the way and so will every one else. Thing is this year we are a better side and i'm sure we'll get straight back on track. I also think Wenger knows we need a striker so if we are thereabouts in January, i'd expect to see a striker in, even if its on loan.

[DB10GOONER]

I've heard that in the medical teams infinite wisdom decided to give the squad flu jabs the day before, 4 actually got the flu (Per, Arteta, Rosicky, Ozil) and Per and Rosicky were too ill to play.

If this is true then the club truly have reached a new level of incompetence.

Christ. If that is true then the cuntwound that made that decision should be sacked immediately. If that is true.

[northbank123]

We just went out there and prayed they didn't score so we could escape with a 0-0. We had no idea how to create chances and the only time we got in the same postcode as their goal was when they sat back in the second half and even then we were clueless.

Even though that gameplan went to pieces after 25 mins we didn't adapt it at all, and had they not scored then we would have continued to sit back all game inviting them onto us until they did.

We didn't play any better than last year, it just wasn't a comprehensive dicking because they're half the team they were. When was the last time we went up there and got our tactics anywhere near right? Should have only been one holding midfielder and somebody playing a more advanced central role to support Giroud (not to mention a bit of tempo!). Wasted the extra man in midfield by employing Arteta in such a deep role alongside Flamini.

[TurnipMasher]

Couldn't watch the match as I was traveling, and can't bring myself to watch the highlights as the picture of RVJC on this page is enough to make me want to put my fist through my laptop.

Struggling to find any positives out of this result, other than giving those fucking manc pricks a false sense of their own ability, which they will hopefully choke on at some point. Buttholes.

[Eboue-Why?]

We just went out there and prayed they didn't score so we could escape with a 0-0. We had no idea how to create chances and the only time we got in the same postcode as their goal was when they sat back in the second half and even then we were clueless.

Even though that gameplan went to pieces after 25 mins we didn't adapt it at all, and had they not scored then we would have continued to sit back all game inviting them onto us until they did.

We didn't play any better than last year, it just wasn't a comprehensive dicking because they're half the team they were. When was the last time we went up there and got our tactics anywhere near right? Should have only been one holding midfielder and somebody playing a more advanced central role to support Giroud (not to mention a bit of tempo!). Wasted the extra man in midfield by employing Arteta in such a deep role alongside Flamini.

Exactly matey. Wenger thought that as we got away with it in Dortmund, and United aren't as good as the Germans so the very least we'll get would be a draw. As it was a flukey bounce off a Dutchman's shoulder, whilst marking zonaly, looping perfectly into the top corner and then we couldn't respond. Yep looked livelier 2nd half but as is mentioned everywhere on this thread, sideways in front of 2 banks of red shirts ain't gonna get you anywhere. Then when Sagna puts in 2 delicious crosses, we have nobody ready to gamble and tuck it in from 5 yards.

And if the flu jab rumour is true then heads must fucking roll