The Gooner Forum

A11M11 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:03 pm

Well it's taken us 45 + years to create this mess hopefully we can get out of it in less than half the time.

The problems only really started on 23 June 2016.

I would say that the problems started in 1923 when Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi published his first paper.
In 1922 he founded the “Pan-European” movement in Vienna, which aimed to create a New World Order, based on a federation of nations led by the United States. European integration would be just the first step in creating a world government.

It may seem far fetched but if you want to know what the E.U is about you need to read about it and then make your mind up when you see certain similarities.

A11M11 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 am

I would say that the problems started in 1923 when Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi published his first paper.
In 1922 he founded the “Pan-European” movement in Vienna, which aimed to create a New World Order, based on a federation of nations led by the United States. European integration would be just the first step in creating a world government.

It may seem far fetched but if you want to know what the E.U is about you need to read about it and then make your mind up when you see certain similarities.

if a world government hasn't happened since 1922 I will take the risk that it is unlikely to happen in the future

I'm sorry but you are facing a losing battle, even if i was a leaver I know I would be facing a losing battle.
it is simple demographics. the young British can see the advantages of being part of the EU, its just those who are stuck in the past like yourself that can't accept it. there are no benefits of being outside the EU, it is just a shame that the benefits of being a member have not been sold to the British public. It is a consequence of the weak political parties in the UK at present.

Read about it , you might learn something , !
If you follow the pattern of what he suggests and look at the parallels to the E.U you may be surprised. Furthermore look at the people involved in the project . Winners of their prizes from Ted Heath in 1963 to date such people as the following have been awarded the prize for their work furthering his dream. Kissinger , Mitterand , Delors , Blair , Clinton , Junker , Merkel , Tusk , Van Rompuy , and this year Macron .
It may not be exactly as he originally wanted but there is a similarity in many of recent events .

Read https://www.disclose.tv/the-kalergi-pla ... ump-311329 then discuss.


Obviously we will never agree , we are poles apart . However you talk of advantages for being in . Could you lay them out , a few bullet points maybe , because I really can't see too many but I am open to being shown the other side of the coin and try to understand your logic.

Disclose TV is a fringe conspiracy forum ffs....

Maybe so but the BBC and Sky news are not much better .

Can you really trust what you hear or read....

No ! All media from whichever owner or political leaning only tells you what they want you to hear.

A11M11 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:56 pm

No ! All media from whichever owner or political leaning only tells you what they want you to hear.

If you like the Coudenhove-Kallergi you should look into the Barcelona Declaration for an eye opener into why the EU is in the situation it is in. My problem has never been with Europe or the European people but with the EU and those who originally financed, supported and ensured it was pushed through without the support or the permission of all the European peoples.

It's also telling those countries who either choose to stay out or were never allowed admittance and the reasons. I also find it strange that everyone talks about where the UK will be after we leave but no-one ever talks about where the EU is going or what its future intentions are. There is plenty of information out there but strangely enough not many of those who voted to remain can answer any questions about it when asked.

Seems the Brexiteers weren't the only ones who didn't know what they were voting for

Totally agree with that .
If you don't read about these things then you can't see the whole picture. In my experience most of the remainers by their very nature are just hoping to retain the status quo and worry solely about their personal wealth and lifestyle .
it's too easy to dismiss reports as scare stories and the latest catchphrase Fake news. However there are similarities to the 1930's albeit not a carbon copy , of an all controlling body attempting to take over the whole thing.
Also we have to look at the workings of Bildeberg and those that may well be pulling the strings in the background.
I wonder if Mrs May is going to come back from her European tour and tell us that she has a piece of paper in her hand signed by Herr Junker ( poetic licence ) and wave it for the press as opposed to the white hanky she has waved so far.

A11M11 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:05 pm

Read about it , you might learn something , !
If you follow the pattern of what he suggests and look at the parallels to the E.U you may be surprised. Furthermore look at the people involved in the project . Winners of their prizes from Ted Heath in 1963 to date such people as the following have been awarded the prize for their work furthering his dream. Kissinger , Mitterand , Delors , Blair , Clinton , Junker , Merkel , Tusk , Van Rompuy , and this year Macron .
It may not be exactly as he originally wanted but there is a similarity in many of recent events .

Read https://www.disclose.tv/the-kalergi-pla ... ump-311329 then discuss.


Obviously we will never agree , we are poles apart . However you talk of advantages for being in . Could you lay them out , a few bullet points maybe , because I really can't see too many but I am open to being shown the other side of the coin and try to understand your logic.

as you say we will never agree, but it is interesting to hear another point of view, no matter how flawed I think it is.
the argument I have had for the past 2 years is probably best summed up in this article:

https://news.sky.com/story/europe-reall ... m-11462776

main reasons for staying in the EU;

1. Helps to preserve the peace in Europe
2. easier flow of goods/services/people helps the economy
3. an integrated society is happier/friendlier. As the article states there are 27 members of the EU and one of us.
It is the largest trading area in the world. why would you want to be outside that ???

Gunner Rob wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:06 am

A11M11 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:05 pm

Read about it , you might learn something , !
If you follow the pattern of what he suggests and look at the parallels to the E.U you may be surprised. Furthermore look at the people involved in the project . Winners of their prizes from Ted Heath in 1963 to date such people as the following have been awarded the prize for their work furthering his dream. Kissinger , Mitterand , Delors , Blair , Clinton , Junker , Merkel , Tusk , Van Rompuy , and this year Macron .
It may not be exactly as he originally wanted but there is a similarity in many of recent events .

Read https://www.disclose.tv/the-kalergi-pla ... ump-311329 then discuss.


Obviously we will never agree , we are poles apart . However you talk of advantages for being in . Could you lay them out , a few bullet points maybe , because I really can't see too many but I am open to being shown the other side of the coin and try to understand your logic.

as you say we will never agree, but it is interesting to hear another point of view, no matter how flawed I think it is.
the argument I have had for the past 2 years is probably best summed up in this article:

https://news.sky.com/story/europe-reall ... m-11462776

main reasons for staying in the EU;

1. Helps to preserve the peace in Europe
2. easier flow of goods/services/people helps the economy
3. an integrated society is happier/friendlier. As the article states there are 27 members of the EU and one of us.
It is the largest trading area in the world. why would you want to be outside that ???

Is it any wonder the majority voted Leave based on that pure BS!.....
And was it not Jerry that started Two not One but two World Wars!
If maintaining peace means getting shafted on every street corner by Jerry then they can feck off......

And I'm givin it to you from the street bruv.......

Allgunsblazin wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:56 pm

Gunner Rob wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:06 am

A11M11 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:05 pm

Read about it , you might learn something , !
If you follow the pattern of what he suggests and look at the parallels to the E.U you may be surprised. Furthermore look at the people involved in the project . Winners of their prizes from Ted Heath in 1963 to date such people as the following have been awarded the prize for their work furthering his dream. Kissinger , Mitterand , Delors , Blair , Clinton , Junker , Merkel , Tusk , Van Rompuy , and this year Macron .
It may not be exactly as he originally wanted but there is a similarity in many of recent events .

Read https://www.disclose.tv/the-kalergi-pla ... ump-311329 then discuss.


Obviously we will never agree , we are poles apart . However you talk of advantages for being in . Could you lay them out , a few bullet points maybe , because I really can't see too many but I am open to being shown the other side of the coin and try to understand your logic.

as you say we will never agree, but it is interesting to hear another point of view, no matter how flawed I think it is.
the argument I have had for the past 2 years is probably best summed up in this article:

https://news.sky.com/story/europe-reall ... m-11462776

main reasons for staying in the EU;

1. Helps to preserve the peace in Europe
2. easier flow of goods/services/people helps the economy
3. an integrated society is happier/friendlier. As the article states there are 27 members of the EU and one of us.
It is the largest trading area in the world. why would you want to be outside that ???

Is it any wonder the majority voted Leave based on that pure BS!.....
And was it not Jerry that started Two not One but two World Wars!
If maintaining peace means getting shafted on every street corner by Jerry then they can feck off......

And I'm givin it to you from the street bruv.......

what the fuck you on about ?

you do realise there has been peace in Europe now for over 70 years ?
part of that is down to the integration and co operation there has been.

look if you think we are getting shafted now just imagine what it will be like when we are on our own and trying to do trade deals with the EU
we already have the best deal. what part of that do you thick not get ????

What you fail to realise is that you resemble Neville Chamberlain with each passing day, Appeasement is not in our makeup you thick
You are a typical Europhile, who bows to Europe...
Grow a pair and fight the good fight..... and stop panic mongering!...
You lost the vote and that's final.....

Hi Rob , thanks for your reply , taking your points 1 by 1.

Peace in our time , Neville Chamberlain's famous quotation as he returned with his piece of paper in 1939.
Well since the inception of the Common Market the big 4 western countries UK , France , Germany and Italy have not been at each others throats. But then again none of them probably could afford to rearm . But the co-existance is more down to Nato than the E.U.

The economy , Over the past few years our exports to the e.u has fallen now down to 43% in 2016. Which means that we already sell 57% to the rest of the world and that figure is probably higher as anything that goes via Rotterdam counts in the 43 %.
54% of our purchases comes from the E.U but then Rotterdam influences those figures too.
I don't for one minute doubt that things will be rocky whilst we rebuild the trades that have been affected by E.U centralised policy but once we have the advantages on buying without tariffs will be better for the general public . The treasury will still have to raise money but will not be tied to having to get permission to reduce VAT for instance , not that they are likely to reduce it by much. It won't be easy but I don't see the sky falling on our heads and the reintroduction of rationing on food for the second time in my life.

if we live in harmony the world will be a better place. Sounds like a 60's new seekers song. We may not be physically at war but there is no love lost between the suits in Brussels and Italy , Poland , Hungary, and there is a rise of anti eu sentiment in Greece , Sweden Holland and even France ,and if Spain think the Catalan situation is put to bed they will be sorely wrong. The E.U is not a stable place and will not be in the near or long term.
The world's largest trading area is in fact China , the EU though is second but the USA is only 0.5 % behind them in third. However our trade with them ( eu ) is steadily declining and once we are fully out will continue to do so until they come to their senses and realise that their idealogical ambitions has badly affected their economies as well.
A further fact that tells a story on the E.U finances of all the countries that have public debt greater than their entire annual economic output the E.U has 3 of the top 5 . Not healthy for those that will have to bail them out.