Arsenal v Manure

[VoiceOfReason]

So naive - he made the comments for one reason: to push through a move to our rivals as quickly as he possibly could, and to try and deflect attention away from what a huge *word censored* he was by playing on fans' frustrations. If you believe that he was doing it for the good of the club you've taken his bollocks hook, line and sinker.

If you stack up his record against the money he took home over his time here he's been paid fucking handsomely. As DB10 said he was more than happy to keep his mouth shut about ambition and pick up his pay packet every week even though he wasn't playing for months on end. But even if you feel there was nothing wrong with him going I still don't see how you can possibly think he conducted himself respectfully to the club and fans?

If Song and Hleb had come out and slagged off their team-mate and club AND moved to a rival club then I'd probably be equally as pissed off with them.

So after eight years of being at Arsenal, and having a strong relationship with fans and staff alike, you're totally dismissing the notion that he may have wanted good things for the club?

At the end of the day, he didn't even have to release a statement - 99.9% of players who leave clubs for other clubs don't bother, and I'm sure he would have got his desired move in any case. I don't think the statement was intended to be for the good of the club necessarily; more that it was an explanation for why he was leaving, and why he felt the way he did. And personally, I can understand and empathise with his plight. That doesn't make me naive - it means I can analyse his situation in an unbias, unemotional context and appreciate his reasons for moving. Of course, I didn't like it, but I understood his reasons why - and obviously that upset many AFC fans, because often the truth hurts.

If he'd moved to Juventus, then we'd likely not be having this discussion right now. The statement, as a standalone event, didn't warrant a great deal of vitriol - indeed, many fans on here were actually commending him for it on the day it was released. It's only in hindsight, when he went to Man Utd, that people used it as a stick with which to beat him.

[augie]

Personally I think the resignation in him showed the day wenker subbed ox v manure - I think that was the day that he accepted that wenker was not the man to help him win trophies and confirmed to him that he needed to get away
I have to say that I doubt if there was/is anything that rvp could have changed some fans opinions - those lambasting him for being a greedy mercenary would still have condemned him for a different reason if it turned out that he would have had a bigger wage if he stayed Because of the way the Togolese c.unt and the French lesbo behaved when pushing their wishes to leave, it is now a lazy attitude to blame every player that leaves as being greedy By all means slate him for joining those *word censored* ( I certainly do) but as a career move he was 100% right in the same way that sol was right to leave the scum and join us

[northbank123]

I'm glad you clearly feel that your objectivity and rational thinking are genuinely the Voice of Reason but him releasing the statement doesn't mean he cares about the club more than 99.9% of other players who don't release the statements. It means he was so desperate to join our rivals he happily disgraced himself and his position as captain to speed it along.

He knew the fans would by and large hate him for his move, just as he knew it was always likely to be vindicated from the point of view of footballing success whatever people speculated about his motives for leaving. The statement was never going to change that.

I agree with Augie that the issues of him deciding to go and the way in which he cunningly engineered and then forced through a move to his rivals are separable. There would have always have been bitterness had he moved to United, regardless of whether it was for the right reasons or whatever. But as captain of Arsenal, he was willing to slag off the club who took a gamble on him and stuck with him for years and years when no other club of our stature would have as well as criticising his team-mates, just because he knew it would mean that the club would have to sell him to United sooner - and that is absolutely indefensible imo.

And I don't really the get the weight place on the "if he'd gone to Juventus......" argument. He didn't. And never had any intention of doing so. Likewise I don't think it's realistic to view the statement as a standalone event, given that it was only released to actually force through the move to our rivals.

[goonersid]

Personally I think the resignation in him showed the day wenker subbed ox v manure - I think that was the day that he accepted that wenker was not the man to help him win trophies and confirmed to him that he needed to get away
I have to say that I doubt if there was/is anything that rvp could have changed some fans opinions - those lambasting him for being a greedy mercenary would still have condemned him for a different reason if it turned out that he would have had a bigger wage if he stayed Because of the way the Togolese c.unt and the French lesbo behaved when pushing their wishes to leave, it is now a lazy attitude to blame every player that leaves as being greedy By all means slate him for joining those c.unts ( I certainly do) but as a career move he was 100% right in the same way that sol was right to leave the scum and join us

If some reports are correct, ie that Wenger didn't offer rvp the chance to stay, then that was also the day that Wenger decided as much.
How dare rvp openly question the tactics of the great leader.
Rvp is still a *word censored* though for joining that scum.

[flash gunner]

Personally I think the resignation in him showed the day wenker subbed ox v manure - I think that was the day that he accepted that wenker was not the man to help him win trophies and confirmed to him that he needed to get away
I have to say that I doubt if there was/is anything that rvp could have changed some fans opinions - those lambasting him for being a greedy mercenary would still have condemned him for a different reason if it turned out that he would have had a bigger wage if he stayed Because of the way the Togolese c.unt and the French lesbo behaved when pushing their wishes to leave, it is now a lazy attitude to blame every player that leaves as being greedy By all means slate him for joining those *word censored* ( I certainly do) but as a career move he was 100% right in the same way that sol was right to leave the scum and join us

Agree with augie here

[DB10GOONER]

I could be wrong in this next bit of course but it seems that alot of us on here are using every single thing they can to beat Wenger with, including justifying to themselves and others what VanJudas did. It's like it's become so polarised in that if you hate Wenger then, by definition, anyone that goes against him is in the right. My enemy's enemy is my friend... almost...

So VanJudas is morally right because he left and won a medal at The Filth? That has helped Arsenal FC how exactly? I honestly think people's hatred for Wenger is clouding their perspective on some of these issues. VanJudas sat on the treatment table for 7 years but had no qualms about the direction of the club even though it was obvious for all to see we were getting worse year by year. He had no problem at all collecting his wage during that time. Then suddenly after his ONE brilliant season, he now has a problem with the way the club is going? It's a new thing huh? We are suddenly a bit shit huh? No coincidence that he has suddenly become the hottest property in the PL and is in a position to bully through a move huh? Seriously??

Also, augie - I think the Sol example is a bit wrong. Sol gave everything to the scum year after year, often played whilst injured and finally left for better things when it was obvious they were shitsville and would never change from that. VanJudas sat on his arse doing very little for 7 years, had one good season and then left. The only similarity (for me anyway) is that they both ultimately did it for themselves, but I doubt many scum fans would be hailing Sol as a decent honourable bloke who only left for the good of the club, would they?

[DB10GOONER]

Should also add that Wenger agreeing to sell RVJ to The Filth is his most shameful decision in his 250 years in charge.

[northbank123]

Should also add that Wenger agreeing to sell RVJ to The Filth is his most shameful decision in his 250 years in charge.

Agreed. Embarrassing to hear Ferguson smugly gloating about how he called Wenger personally on multiple occasions to ensure the deal went through.

All the stuff about our ambition (or lack thereof) goes to the systematic failings of the club in the last half a decade and is responsible for a lot more than van Judas going. Clearly until that gets sorted, we ain't going anywhere good.

But even after he told them he wanted to go they should have said right, find yourself a club somewhere else because I would rather sell my left bollock to United than you. Taking a hard stance would have made him re-evaluate and probably secured a different result - I doubt he would have still released that statement and risked burning all bridges for a move that wasn't going to happen. Instead, we buried our heads in the fucking sand and pretended he might still stay, allowing him to grab us by the balls and fuck us hard.

That said, I don't think the club really fucked up the contract situation, I don't think there's a lot they could have done differently.

[MM99]

I could be wrong in this next bit of course but it seems that alot of us on here are using every single thing they can to beat Wenger with, including justifying to themselves and others what VanJudas did. It's like it's become so polarised in that if you hate Wenger then, by definition, anyone that goes against him is in the right. My enemy's enemy is my friend... almost...

So VanJudas is morally right because he left and won a medal at The Filth? That has helped Arsenal FC how exactly? I honestly think people's hatred for Wenger is clouding their perspective on some of these issues. VanJudas sat on the treatment table for 7 years but had no qualms about the direction of the club even though it was obvious for all to see we were getting worse year by year. He had no problem at all collecting his wage during that time. Then suddenly after his ONE brilliant season, he now has a problem with the way the club is going? It's a new thing huh? We are suddenly a bit shit huh? No coincidence that he has suddenly become the hottest property in the PL and is in a position to bully through a move huh? Seriously??

Also, augie - I think the Sol example is a bit wrong. Sol gave everything to the scum year after year, often played whilst injured and finally left for better things when it was obvious they were shitsville and would never change from that. VanJudas sat on his arse doing very little for 7 years, had one good season and then left. The only similarity (for me anyway) is that they both ultimately did it for themselves, but I doubt many scum fans would be hailing Sol as a decent honourable bloke who only left for the good of the club, would they?

Finally someone with a bit of sense. Couldn't have put it any better.

[DB10GOONER]

I could be wrong in this next bit of course but it seems that alot of us on here are using every single thing they can to beat Wenger with, including justifying to themselves and others what VanJudas did. It's like it's become so polarised in that if you hate Wenger then, by definition, anyone that goes against him is in the right. My enemy's enemy is my friend... almost...

So VanJudas is morally right because he left and won a medal at The Filth? That has helped Arsenal FC how exactly? I honestly think people's hatred for Wenger is clouding their perspective on some of these issues. VanJudas sat on the treatment table for 7 years but had no qualms about the direction of the club even though it was obvious for all to see we were getting worse year by year. He had no problem at all collecting his wage during that time. Then suddenly after his ONE brilliant season, he now has a problem with the way the club is going? It's a new thing huh? We are suddenly a bit shit huh? No coincidence that he has suddenly become the hottest property in the PL and is in a position to bully through a move huh? Seriously??

Also, augie - I think the Sol example is a bit wrong. Sol gave everything to the scum year after year, often played whilst injured and finally left for better things when it was obvious they were shitsville and would never change from that. VanJudas sat on his arse doing very little for 7 years, had one good season and then left. The only similarity (for me anyway) is that they both ultimately did it for themselves, but I doubt many scum fans would be hailing Sol as a decent honourable bloke who only left for the good of the club, would they?

Finally someone with a bit of sense. Couldn't have put it any better.

It's a one-off!

[donaldo]

I could be wrong in this next bit of course but it seems that alot of us on here are using every single thing they can to beat Wenger with, including justifying to themselves and others what VanJudas did. It's like it's become so polarised in that if you hate Wenger then, by definition, anyone that goes against him is in the right. My enemy's enemy is my friend... almost...

So VanJudas is morally right because he left and won a medal at The Filth? That has helped Arsenal FC how exactly? I honestly think people's hatred for Wenger is clouding their perspective on some of these issues. VanJudas sat on the treatment table for 7 years but had no qualms about the direction of the club even though it was obvious for all to see we were getting worse year by year. He had no problem at all collecting his wage during that time. Then suddenly after his ONE brilliant season, he now has a problem with the way the club is going? It's a new thing huh? We are suddenly a bit shit huh? No coincidence that he has suddenly become the hottest property in the PL and is in a position to bully through a move huh? Seriously??

Also, augie - I think the Sol example is a bit wrong. Sol gave everything to the scum year after year, often played whilst injured and finally left for better things when it was obvious they were shitsville and would never change from that. VanJudas sat on his arse doing very little for 7 years, had one good season and then left. The only similarity (for me anyway) is that they both ultimately did it for themselves, but I doubt many scum fans would be hailing Sol as a decent honourable bloke who only left for the good of the club, would they?

You talk about RVP sitting on his arse for 7 years.Who was it who gave him that last contract?Oh yes Wenger(and i was one of the few on here who said RVP shouldnt have got a new contract in 2009)After 5 injury hit seasons he gave RVP another contract.Can you blame RVP for signing it?And Wenger has done the same with Rosicknote and Diaby.You cant have it both ways saying RVP was an injury prone crock for 7 years when we kept giving new contracts.Wenger didnt have the balls to get rid of him

Everything that has gone wrong with the club inthe last 8 years from bad signings to our best players leaving to is down to one man.Wenger.Everything thats happens at the clubs goes through him.He dosent have a board telling him what to do

Wenger out

[I Hate Hleb]

NB123,

Where did Van Persie 'slag the players and club off'? I've heard this said many times as a rebuke for RVP but perhaps I qualify as one of those naive folk because I believe questioning the club's ambition and stating why you weren't prepared to sign a new contract - especially when it was the view that the club were misleading the fans by giving the impression it was only a matter of time until you did - isn't doing either.

And I agree with donaldo's post above.

[northbank123]

NB123,

Where did Van Persie 'slag the players and club off'? I've heard this said many times as a rebuke for RVP but perhaps I qualify as one of those naive folk because I believe questioning the club's ambition and stating why you weren't prepared to sign a new contract - especially when it was the view that the club were misleading the fans by giving the impression it was only a matter of time until you did - isn't doing either.

And I agree with donaldo's post above.

The premise of the whole statement is that he is too good to be playing with the current crop of players. Doesn't directly use mention "players" but it's hardly thinly-veiled and when a captain makes it clear that he doesn't feel that he should be playing with the players he is meant to be responsible for leading and motivating every day, it makes his position pretty untenable.

And yes, there is some truth to what he's said, undoubtedly. But that doesn't mean he should be coming out and saying it publicly - the time for doing so was in private which he claims he did. When he's decided to do it already and airs the dirty laundry for the world to see, it becomes a swipe. And of course the fact he's dressed it up as being out of respect for the fans, which couldn't be further from the truth, is also somewhat annoying.

It's a bullshit piece of propaganda that Gazidis could only dream of. He refers to "respect" 3 times and uses the term "you guys [fans]" 2 times in what I consider to be a disrespectful and self-serving statement.

At the end of the day after 9 months or so people are pretty set in their views on the matter, and given that it's such a divisive issue there's even less chance than normal of a good debate breaking out!

[DB10GOONER]

I could be wrong in this next bit of course but it seems that alot of us on here are using every single thing they can to beat Wenger with, including justifying to themselves and others what VanJudas did. It's like it's become so polarised in that if you hate Wenger then, by definition, anyone that goes against him is in the right. My enemy's enemy is my friend... almost...

So VanJudas is morally right because he left and won a medal at The Filth? That has helped Arsenal FC how exactly? I honestly think people's hatred for Wenger is clouding their perspective on some of these issues. VanJudas sat on the treatment table for 7 years but had no qualms about the direction of the club even though it was obvious for all to see we were getting worse year by year. He had no problem at all collecting his wage during that time. Then suddenly after his ONE brilliant season, he now has a problem with the way the club is going? It's a new thing huh? We are suddenly a bit shit huh? No coincidence that he has suddenly become the hottest property in the PL and is in a position to bully through a move huh? Seriously??

Also, augie - I think the Sol example is a bit wrong. Sol gave everything to the scum year after year, often played whilst injured and finally left for better things when it was obvious they were shitsville and would never change from that. VanJudas sat on his arse doing very little for 7 years, had one good season and then left. The only similarity (for me anyway) is that they both ultimately did it for themselves, but I doubt many scum fans would be hailing Sol as a decent honourable bloke who only left for the good of the club, would they?

You talk about RVP sitting on his arse for 7 years.Who was it who gave him that last contract?Oh yes Wenger(and i was one of the few on here who said RVP shouldnt have got a new contract in 2009)After 5 injury hit seasons he gave RVP another contract.Can you blame RVP for signing it?And Wenger has done the same with Rosicknote and Diaby.You cant have it both ways saying RVP was an injury prone crock for 7 years when we kept giving new contracts.Wenger didnt have the balls to get rid of him

Everything that has gone wrong with the club inthe last 8 years from bad signings to our best players leaving to is down to one man.Wenger.Everything thats happens at the clubs goes through him.He dosent have a board telling him what to do

Wenger out

You are preaching to the converted to a certain extent mate. I agree Wenger is culpable, been saying that all along. But that does not excuse RVJ's behaviour. I'm not criticising him for signing his contract renewals and I agree Wenger should have sold him in 2009 and cut our losses.

My point is that during those 7 years RVJ was happy enough to watch the club go downhill and not once question the club's ambitions. Not once. Because he knew no other club would sign him on the money he was on with us, not with his ongoing injury problems every single year. Then he puts in ONE injury free and brilliant season and suddenly he now questions the club's ambitions? But we should believe he only had the club's best interests at heart and only suddenly became disillusioned? Not having a pop at your personally here Don, but sorry that is bollocks.

[augie]

DB answer this question honestly.....as a Gooner would your confidence in the clubs direction have been dented by the sales of Cesc and nasri ? You talk about how happy he was to sit on his arse for 7 years as the club declined but don't you think that it was finally the sale of the aforementioned players and the lack of suitable replacements that made him question the ambitions of the club ? There were many on here that still believed in wenker up to that summer (obviously I wasn't one of them ) and it took those 2 sales to finally get them to see the light so isn't it possible that players like rvp got that same wake up call ? It is one thing saying that the club had been in decline for 7 years (and most of us agree btw) but that one summer wasn't just a decline but a monumental fatal blow to the ambitions of all genuine Gooners and I don't feel it is a coincidence that rvp looked to leave at the end of that season.

At no stage I have tried to turn this into a anti wenker pro rvp debate - this hasn't be used by me as a stick to best the club with although culpability certainly lies mostly at their feet All I have ever said is that I still believe 100% that he left us to win medals and in that regard he has been proven 100% correct in his actions. As donaldo has already pointed out, the fact that he was allowed laze around on our treatment table for so long is down to the regime that tolerated and actually encouraged that practice by continually giving the new contracts to injured freeloaders