Bindippers away Wed 20.00

[Redarmy]

Paul Merson quote:

Arsene Wenger’s substitution wasn’t very good – he took off Ozil and brought on Arteta and I thought at 3-2 he should probably have put another forward on because they’re chasing the game and then Arsenal can pick them off.

“I just think Arsenal played into their hands and that’s where they got the draw from in my opinion.”

Do not have to be in football 30 years to know he fucked up again

Couple that with the fact that Klopp brought on Benteke who won the ball in the air and the other sub Allen scored the equaliser

Actually Paul Merson signed with Arsenal in 1985 so he has worked 30 years in football

Yeah i know that, was there when he made his debut, was referring to Wenger 30 years in football quote

[OneBardGooner]

One person and One Person Alone was responsible for throwing away 2 Very Valuable and Much Needed Points Last Night - His name is Arsene Wenger - and He IS a Fuckingg Idiot.

[Redarmy]

One person and One Person Alone was responsible for throwing away 2 Very Valuable and Much Needed Points Last Night - His name is Arsene Wenger - and He IS a Fuckingg Idiot.

Agreed

[northbank123]

Paul Merson quote:

Arsene Wenger’s substitution wasn’t very good – he took off Ozil and brought on Arteta and I thought at 3-2 he should probably have put another forward on because they’re chasing the game and then Arsenal can pick them off.

“I just think Arsenal played into their hands and that’s where they got the draw from in my opinion.”

Do not have to be in football 30 years to know he fucked up again

Couple that with the fact that Klopp brought on Benteke who won the ball in the air and the other sub Allen scored the equaliser

Actually Paul Merson signed with Arsenal in 1985 so he has worked 30 years in football

Yeah i know that, was there when he made his debut, was referring to Wenger 30 years in football quote

I know mate I was jesting. Unfortunately incouldnt locate the smiley of the bloke pushing his glasses up his nose.

[Redarmy]

Paul Merson quote:

Arsene Wenger’s substitution wasn’t very good – he took off Ozil and brought on Arteta and I thought at 3-2 he should probably have put another forward on because they’re chasing the game and then Arsenal can pick them off.

“I just think Arsenal played into their hands and that’s where they got the draw from in my opinion.”

Do not have to be in football 30 years to know he fucked up again

Couple that with the fact that Klopp brought on Benteke who won the ball in the air and the other sub Allen scored the equaliser

Actually Paul Merson signed with Arsenal in 1985 so he has worked 30 years in football

Yeah i know that, was there when he made his debut, was referring to Wenger 30 years in football quote

I know mate I was jesting. Unfortunately incouldnt locate the smiley of the bloke pushing his glasses up his nose.

fair dos, had to look up the Merson debut apparently 1986 against Man City at Home, talented player for sure

[SPARKSY]

Paul Merson quote:

Arsene Wenger’s substitution wasn’t very good – he took off Ozil and brought on Arteta and I thought at 3-2 he should probably have put another forward on because they’re chasing the game and then Arsenal can pick them off.

“I just think Arsenal played into their hands and that’s where they got the draw from in my opinion.”

Do not have to be in football 30 years to know he fucked up again

Couple that with the fact that Klopp brought on Benteke who won the ball in the air and the other sub Allen scored the equaliser

I'm not a Wenger fan but be fair. If he had brought a striker on and they had scored he would be getting slaughtered for not bringing on a defensive player.

[rodders999]

He will continue to get slaughtered by me as long as he keeps bringing on a failed left back and a broken down has been in midfield as his idea of "going defensive".

As I said earlier in the thread if he wants to go down that road bring on Gabriel or Chambers to help out the non jumping German and Kos and if that go's tits up so be it.

[DB10GOONER]

For me the problem is not just who Wenger brought on (although I absolutely agree bringing on the useless Gibbs and the past-it Arteta is ludicrous).

I think the problem is the very obvious way he does it.

We were ok in that game until we went defensive. The Mousers were huffing and puffing but never looked like scoring a 3rd. The crowd had quietened down. We had it won. Then he takes off Ramsey and Ozil and brings on Gibbs and Arteta and that sent the signal to Klopp and the mouser players that we were gonna sit back and try defend. It also got their crowd re-motivated and that fired up their players and they just came at us flat out. We invited them onto us and we are NOT good enough at the back to hold out like that.

It's like the media and pundit criticism of Wenger for "not doing tactics" has finally hurt him enough to make him try and do tactics. The problem is he doesn't have the tactical nous to do it right and goes in OTT and just takes off 2 attackers and sticks on 2 defenders. It's child like. Other managers eat that alive tbh.

[arseofacrow]

For me the problem is not just who Wenger brought on (although I absolutely agree bringing on the useless Gibbs and the past-it Arteta is ludicrous).

I think the problem is the very obvious way he does it.

We were ok in that game until we went defensive. The Mousers were huffing and puffing but never looked like scoring a 3rd. The crowd had quietened down. We had it won. Then he takes off Ramsey and Ozil and brings on Gibbs and Arteta and that sent the signal to Klopp and the mouser players that we were gonna sit back and try defend. It also got their crowd re-motivated and that fired up their players and they just came at us flat out. We invited them onto us and we are NOT good enough at the back to hold out like that.

It's like the media and pundit criticism of Wenger for "not doing tactics" has finally hurt him enough to make him try and do tactics. The problem is he doesn't have the tactical nous to do it right and goes in OTT and just takes off 2 attackers and sticks on 2 defenders. It's child like. Other managers eat that alive tbh.

For how many years has Wenger been doing this shit??!!

[robbo10]

For me the problem is not just who Wenger brought on (although I absolutely agree bringing on the useless Gibbs and the past-it Arteta is ludicrous).

I think the problem is the very obvious way he does it.

We were ok in that game until we went defensive. The Mousers were huffing and puffing but never looked like scoring a 3rd. The crowd had quietened down. We had it won. Then he takes off Ramsey and Ozil and brings on Gibbs and Arteta and that sent the signal to Klopp and the mouser players that we were gonna sit back and try defend. It also got their crowd re-motivated and that fired up their players and they just came at us flat out. We invited them onto us and we are NOT good enough at the back to hold out like that.

It's like the media and pundit criticism of Wenger for "not doing tactics" has finally hurt him enough to make him try and do tactics. The problem is he doesn't have the tactical nous to do it right and goes in OTT and just takes off 2 attackers and sticks on 2 defenders. It's child like. Other managers eat that alive tbh.

The man's a c*nt,he invites the "attack against defence" scenario but forgets the defence he's assembled is fucking dire,and he weakens it with Gibbs and Arteta coming on,If asked privately,players like Monreal would probably tell you that he would rather Wenger stayed with 2 banks of 4 and let the defence do its job,overloading the pitch with average defenders fuck's up the balance of the side,also it drops us deeper,and with the Big Fucking Jerkoff back there its just asking for trouble,

[rodders999]

He was always like that though, even in the good old days. Tactics 101 when chasing a game was to fire on as many forwards as possible in chase of a goal, how many games ended with us having Henry, Bergkamp, Wiltord and Kanu on the pitch? Having 4 strikers in the squad....good times......how novel!

Then if we were ahead you'd see the likes of Luzhny, Van Bronkhurst, Parlour etc. enter the fray to try and kill the game. That's all he's ever had on the tactics front, all out attack or shut up shop. Cesc let that cat put of the bag when he said we never study the opposition we just go out and paly our own game and hope for the best. When we had one of the best 11 players ever put together that was fine but when that was no longer the case he was found out.

[GranadaJoe]

I think some of the criticism of the substitutions is wide of the mark.

We didn't 'invite them on' with the substitutions. They were already camped in our half and Theo was anonymous and, after another top shift, Campbell was knackered.
So if changes need to be made, what to do? We needed wide players and the Ox and Gibbs were the obvious choices. The Ox was sloppy but Gibbs did OK.
I agree that the Arteta decision was wrong. Chambers with more pace and much better aerial ability would have been a better option.

I thought Iwobi looked promising against an awful Sunderland side, but in his other cameos he's looked a bit awestruck, and it would've been dangerous to expose him to a Liverpool onslaught in front of the Kop.

I can't see the logic of suggesting we should have put attacking players on to 'catch them on the break'. They had nothing to lose. Certainly nothing to protect. They wouldn't have dropped anybody back and we'd have been outnumbered at the back. Losing by a goal or by two goals is of no consequence to them. We were the team with something to protect. Just about every other manager would've done the same.

[DB10GOONER]

I think some of the criticism of the substitutions is wide of the mark.

We didn't 'invite them on' with the substitutions. They were already camped in our half and Theo was anonymous and, after another top shift, Campbell was knackered.
So if changes need to be made, what to do? We needed wide players and the Ox and Gibbs were the obvious choices. The Ox was sloppy but Gibbs did OK.
I agree that the Arteta decision was wrong. Chambers with more pace and much better aerial ability would have been a better option.

I thought Iwobi looked promising against an awful Sunderland side, but in his other cameos he's looked a bit awestruck, and it would've been dangerous to expose him to a Liverpool onslaught in front of the Kop.

I can't see the logic of suggesting we should have put attacking players on to 'catch them on the break'. They had nothing to lose. Certainly nothing to protect. They wouldn't have dropped anybody back and we'd have been outnumbered at the back. Losing by a goal or by two goals is of no consequence to them. We were the team with something to protect. Just about every other manager would've done the same.

But you don't just put on attacking players (or leave attacking players on) just to catch the oppo on the break. It's also a statement of intent and it absolutely does affect how the oppo come at you late on. The risk of getting hit on the break makes them think a bit more. Liverpool were in our half but were not going flat out before we made the substitutions, they were flaffing around and making sure they didn't over-commit. Once we sat back deep with no outlet, they just went at us flat out. If you didn't see the difference in their approach before and after the substitutions then with all due respect, I'm not sure what you were watching Joe...

I think my point stands. The subs are too OTT. It's nearly always 2 or 3 attackers off and 2 or 3 defenders on. Top managers look to balance the team. Wenger looks at it like "attack for 75 to 80 mins, defend for 10 to 15 minutes. It's amateurish.

I don't believe any other manager would do it like that at that stage in a game. Sure, throw on all your defenders with 86 or 89 minutes gone, but half of doing that is time wasting whilst making the substitutions.

[DB10GOONER]

He was always like that though, even in the good old days. Tactics 101 when chasing a game was to fire on as many forwards as possible in chase of a goal, how many games ended with us having Henry, Bergkamp, Wiltord and Kanu on the pitch? Having 4 strikers in the squad....good times......how novel!

Then if we were ahead you'd see the likes of Luzhny, Van Bronkhurst, Parlour etc. enter the fray to try and kill the game. That's all he's ever had on the tactics front, all out attack or shut up shop. Cesc let that cat put of the bag when he said we never study the opposition we just go out and paly our own game and hope for the best. When we had one of the best 11 players ever put together that was fine but when that was no longer the case he was found out.

Agreed. But I think my point is that previously he also used to go cavalier at teams and we'd keep attacking for 90 minutes when we should have reined it in a bit and we'd get caught out late on quite often. He was inflexible in that. He was lambasted for that. The last couple seasons it's like he is trying to prove a point of "look at me doing tactics" and he's become inflexible in the other direction; get all the attackers off, get all the defenders on and sit back and invite the oppo onto us. Equally amateurish.

[Redarmy]

He will continue to get slaughtered by me as long as he keeps bringing on a failed left back and a broken down has been in midfield as his idea of "going defensive".

As I said earlier in the thread if he wants to go down that road bring on Gabriel or Chambers to help out the non jumping German and Kos and if that go's tits up so be it.

Absolutely Gabriel would have been the logical choice after Benteke came on to win balls in the air

But Wenger cannot see that, Gibbs and Arteta FFS, there is much better players in the football league than these 2