The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[nut flush gooner]

Again you are missing the point herd. Overall, immigrants put more into the economy net than they take out. How many different ways can you put it. It is an economic benefit to this country to have them. Its not a question of patronising people by quoting studies, its quoting facts.

You are pillorying the socially deprived and in particular taking aim at immigrants, so what about the brits that are proportionately out of work more than EEA migrants, that may be taking liberties, take their benefits away?

Not missing the point it's just that you are continuing to try to perpetuate the lie that immigration is doing us all good when it clearly does not .
I'm not demonizing immigrants either ,Id do the same if I were them and if your trying to insinuate I'm racist Id try another angle pal because that simply isn't me .
The reason why so many are here from other EU countries is because their own economies are up shit creek without a paddle and that should tell you everything you need to know about the state of the EU another very good reason to leave .

I am not pillorying the socially deprived either ,in fact quite the opposite ,the poor of this country face the real effects of mass immigration as they compete for the same very scarce resources this country has left and lose time after time due to ludicrous policies .

Your trying to make out like immigration is a huge deal to me which it isnt but once again flush you have tried to use it as a stick to beat me with and as usual fail badly !

I never said immigration is doing us all good, I said that the net effect for the country is positive. There is a big difference. You have said the opposite, and I wholeheartedly disagree. But I have backed my point of view with facts.

There is no argument that people come here because the standard of living is better, and there are better opportunities for them than at home. But at all levels they add value to the economy from the plasterer right up to the IT professional or the Doctor. You should embrace that rather than have such pre conceived ideas with nothing to back it up but words.

[Gunner Rob]

Good to see Jo Johnson facing up to the reality of Brexit.

About time a few of the deluded on here did the same. It will happen - the tide has turned.

[A11M11]

The tide comes in and then goes out again and yes both of the Johnson brothers are right and we should vote down May's hopeless deal . However that's where they part company . Jo wants have another look and reverse the decision where Boris wants a renegotiation.
It actually reflacts the country as a whole , very few people want to see us as a country totally impotent and tied into a system which disavantages us.
I don't think that you will find that those that wished to leave have suddenly changed their position , they just don't want to leave under ther terms that May and Robbins seems to want.

As for immigration we have had the luxury of plundering many good highly educated useful migrants from Europe . Unfortunately along with them we have inherited the other side of the coin and got many that are not quite as handy to have around and these are the ones that grab the headlines and create the resentment . If there is a solution surely it's to control those that come to get more of the first and less of the second.

[Gunner Rob]

it just keeps coming back to the same problem - the referendum asked whether you wanted to leave the EU, but crucially it did not state what the terms were going to be. everyone wanted something different. PM May is trying to do a deal for everyone which is impossible.

Basically if you want a Brexit of sorts then you are going to have to back PM May. The alternative is to have another vote on a "no deal" or "remain"

As for uneducated immigrants, there are plenty of uneducated people who were born here as well.
For that to improve there needs to be greater investment in education, but of course that won't happen with Brexit because we will need to give £40 billion to the EU as a divorce settlement and then after that we will be poorer anyway.

[A11M11]

Not with no deal Rob, on that point no deal really is better than a bad one .
Throughout the referendum lead up the leave campaign was quite clear about it's aims. they were :-
out of the customs union
out of the single market
reduce and be more selective on free movement
End of European courts jurisdiction.
Take back control of the CAP and CFP and make Parliament sovereign again.
I am surprised you missed these points.

As May has spectacularly managed to avoid every one of these , the leave members of our community quite rightly feel that this is not the deal for us.
Her deal means that we stay in on worse terms which is no good for either of us.
As for the feckless that we have produced ourselves I agree that is our problem , however we do not need to import more from everywhere else , that is what being more selective on free movement was about.

[Gunner Rob]

if the leave campaign was clear about its aims it was certainly very unclear on the consequences.
i doubt if anyone voted to be poorer but that's what your kind of Brexit will mean for the country.

Oh and by the way Parliament is already sovereign.


as for no deal then fair enough if you want this then you will have to accept another vote.
the original referendum asked if you wanted to leave the EU. PM May has decided on her version of that.
if you want to reject that then you have to accept another vote. there is no other alternative.

[A11M11]

Then the new referendum should be whether we accept May's way or whether to find an alternative. Any other vote would split the leave voters and hand it to your lot and Brussels would win again.
Remaining should not be on the agenda until the previous "" once in a lifetime "" unquote David Cameron May 2016 referendum has been enacted.

[Gunner Rob]

Then the new referendum should be whether we accept May's way or whether to find an alternative. Any other vote would split the leave voters and hand it to your lot and Brussels would win again.
Remaining should not be on the agenda until the previous "" once in a lifetime "" unquote David Cameron May 2016 referendum has been enacted.

firstly there is no longer any time to find an alternative. as I said it will be either May's deal or no deal.

if it is May's deal then fair enough, I see how it can be considered undemocratic to hold a new vote.
if you reject that though then there has to be a referendum on either a no deal or remain.

You can't just expect a no deal to be pushed though, because absolutely nobody voted for a no deal.
Remain has to be on the agenda because the problem with Brexit is that it is proving impossible to implement.

[DB10GOONER]

Good to see Boris Johnson's fucktard of a father demonstrating that being an unintelligent ignorant moron runs in that family. There's a reason "Johnson" is a euphemism for "prick".

[AkneyGooner]

Good to see Boris Johnson's fucktard of a father demonstrating that being an unintelligent ignorant moron runs in that family. There's a reason "Johnson" is a euphemism for "prick".

Sometimes I wonder if they are not as dumb as they pretend to be, they are trying to be endeering hopeless guy who means well, rather than the calculated shitbergs they are.

I think it was the same with George dubya bush, just a persona, not saying they are really smart, just not as bumbling as they pretend to be. George dubya bush often to me looked like he was trying to keep a straight face as he was saying stupid but calculated stuff.

[Gunner Rob]

I’m still stunned when I come on here to find that there are STILL some people that think Brexit is a good idea

[Herd]

The concept that immigration is making a contribution to our economy is so ludicrous that it beggar's belief.
We are importing poverty on an industrial scale in this country and we can't afford it anymore ,it's that simple.
Last Year the net immigration was about 270,000 ,that massive and unsustainable .
The eu ins and out are about the same but we still have too many people in the country for the infrastructure that we have ,If you live in central London you see it's effects close up .
The Net figures mask the fact that Britons are leaving the country and taking their money with them and that those arriving are plugging into the ample bosom of the state and sucking it dry,as the ecomonies of our eu countries go further down the pan this will increase .

Nut says I have pre conceived ideas ,not at all I used to think the free market and movement of labour was a good thing but what I see has made me change my mind ,I would change it again if I was convinced ,but I'm not .
Unfortunately it is he that has preconceived ideas and throws factoids out all over the place to back up his pre conceived ideas but doesnt seem to understand that all facts come with points of view. People who produce so called facts do so to influence the gullible,flush and to a smaller extent rob are prime examples of this brainwashing .
Often when you dig deep you find that figures are cherry picked and don't represent the larger picture ,such is the way,he who pays the piper calls the tune.
We often are told about GDP and that growth in GDP is the only barometer of economic wellbeing ,but it's a bald face lie like many others so flush saying they are making a contribution to the economy is really fudging the reality of what they are taking out of it in terms of social services like schools and health not to mention the pressure on affordable housing which in London is acute .

The Expansion of the Eu has been it's downfall ,we are now carrying too many economies on our backs ,and their people ,it can't go on and thats why people voted out .

Back to my original premise ie that even if we vote out we wont get out in any meaningful way .
May is cooking a deal which leaves us half in half out ,and leaving it to the last moment ,some Tories will revolt but enough Labour rebels will vote it through . The deal will be worse than just staying in.
All over Europe at a time of tremendous challenge Government's are getting weaker and weaker,and when this happens only the big corporations will win and further enslave us ............it's coming home !

PS Rob I reported you to the Police for hate crime for calling me a Politician but since I'm not an Islamic radical it doesnt count !

[AkneyGooner]

Can't disagree with much of that.

A few of my long time friends came over illegally before the EU expansion and since been given the right to stay also agree, when the last EU expansion happened they both told me it was stupid and UK have to do something to protect itself.

But also has to be mentioned that because of PPP and various other scams (under labour and conservative) fuck all infrastructure investments in the capital are happening.

As Herd mentioned I live in London and have to watch full central line trains go by one after the other until one of them has just enough room for me to shoehorn myself into . It's not safe, hygienic or sustainable and it's reflected in many services and infrastructure in the UK, it's pretty much the same infrastructure we had in the 90's

Immigration is something that needs to be looked at, we need to cap it, or actively plan for it and expand infrastructure to cope. I am sure it can be dealt with but there is just so much corruption and finger pointing it will never happen until the system completely breaks.

In the EU or out I still think out country is fucked from the inside as much as it is from the outside.

[Gunner Rob]

Brexit is basically dead in the water.

no way that this "deal" that the government has agreed is going to get through Parliament.
so the alternative is a "no deal Brexit" - well that isn't going to happen either

so the only outcome is REMAIN


as I said earlier in the week on here the only way "Brexit" will happen is if the government "deal" is approved by Parliament.
it isnt going to happen because there are too may right wingers who dont want it. so you are going to end up with REMAIN.

I have called it, Herd called it about a year ago. Thats it. THE END.

Hey mods prepare to shut the thread down

[nut flush gooner]

Brexit is basically dead in the water.

no way that this "deal" that the government has agreed is going to get through Parliament.
so the alternative is a "no deal Brexit" - well that isn't going to happen either

so the only outcome is REMAIN


as I said earlier in the week on here the only way "Brexit" will happen is if the government "deal" is approved by Parliament.
it isnt going to happen because there are too may right wingers who dont want it. so you are going to end up with REMAIN.

I have called it, Herd called it about a year ago. Thats it. THE END.

Hey mods prepare to shut the thread down

Rob, you're a bit naive if you think that we will go from a proposed Brexit deal rejected by Parliament to Remain just like that. A lot of things need to happen for that even to come close, including potentially a General Election and a new government that is committed to remaining in the EU. Remember this deal is a draft, nothing more at this stage.

Then the only credible way of remaining in the EU is to have another referendum, there would be riots on the streets if the politicians tried to overturn the results of the original referendum without at least consulting the people again. Not to mention, that it would prove we don't live in a democracy.

Jeremy Corbyn remember is anything but pro European, and Labour is as split when it comes to the EU as the Tories.

One thing that is clear though, is Britain despite what many have said on this thread, do not hold the upper hand when it comes to negotiating with the Europeans. That's why we have a complete fudge of a Brexit proposal or at least I expect it to be that way when the details come out over the next few days.