THE WENGER THREAD

[VoiceOfReason]

Anyone else see AW's press conference chatter about German football today? What on earth was he babbling on about? He's lost it big-time.

[DB10GOONER]

If you look back to 2007ish Donaldo, who as far as i can see is one of the most Anti-Wengerites these days, was on here telling people to give him time he'll get things sorted out. Many accusations have been levelled at this forum over time and one of them is this is THE most anti Wenger forum about but i find find it refreshing to see how people like donaldo have changed and that he or any of us haven't always been frustrated by Wenger and the current set up.

I have no problem with people still trusting Wengers judgement but looking back we all did at one point or another and rightly or wrongly views have changed

it does certainly seem to be 'up there' in the antiwengerleague (lol remember the anti nowhere league? Shit band who set out to be shit and achieved it lol ) as forum go. I see your point about it refreshing to see folk can change their standpoint although I wonder how much of that is down to the envioronment? I would hazard a guess a large percentage. Makes it neither right nor wrong, but it is certainly a place where the general view is perhaps greater than the sum of the parts and rather like a black hole is difficult to avoid getting sucked in. (obv this is how I'd see it ofc)

Looking back through the thread the folk still about and commenting tend to be those who 'follow the local path' as it were and those who stand against them seem to either have fucked off or are lurking to await the inevitable sea change and come flooding back to shout I told you so when people like me are proved right (perhaps)

I dont remember that band..... Maybe people have followed the crowd but having been on here for far too long now you can see the steady change in peoples views. As the thread shows in 2008 there was a few wanting change and steadily, possibly following the decline in our fortunes, others have changed too. Even mods brazilianGOONER and then DB10 not that long ago was saying i'll give him til the summer to sort things out. When it didn't happen opinions have changed. As i said i dont mind people having the view he is still the right man and enjoy the non-abusive debate of it but i feel you/they are wrong

Flash – I Should clarify that I have been questioning Wenger’s policies on and off the pitch since the failure to strengthen in Jan 2008 cost us a very winnable league. I then decided I’d support his “project” until May 2010, out of loyalty and hope. Which I did, but still always questioning his policies. When we were still potless in May 2010 (but more importantly, when it was very obvious that Arsene was not going to do what needed to be done by getting rid of the rubbish) I decided that’s that – enough! I’ve wanted him out since then. No one can say I didn’t give the man a fair chance!

Steve I – I find your summation that those critical of Arsene on here are merely “follow(ing) the local path” a tad insulting to be honest. I for one really don’t give much of a shit what other people believe; I speak (and write) only for myself. I love and respect Arsene for what he achieved at our great club between 1997 and 2006 but I no longer believe he is the right man to lead us to what should be the only thing that matters to football fans; trophies! We are football fans – not accountants or economists – finances should NEVER be spoken of as if they are the equal of winning a trophy. Wenger has proven by failure season after season that he is no longer the right man for the job. Many things lead me to this conclusion, but mostly: the continued renewal (and improving) of rubbish players’ contracts; the refusal to be pragmatic and drop Tippy Tappy Barca-Lite and play to the strengths of the players he has not the players he wishes he had; and things like selling our best player to our supposed rivals.

Ask yourself this; would Ferguson ever, ever, in a million years, sell his best player to a team he viewed as rivals? Then ask yourself why that is?

[augie]

I agree its all about expectations and they may vary between different people, back in the early to mid 80's i was a kid and just enjoyed watching Arsenal and a cup win would be enough. Around '89 i was going regular and i wanted more of the success. After the golden years of Wenger 98-05 i expected more. Maybe it was unrealistic to expect such things but united have won consistently for 20 years and having had such a dominant team and a magical manager we should be doing the same.

Now from then we have gone backwards and with the backwards trend promises from the board about how moving away from highbury would allow us to compete with madrid and barca when in reality we're nowhere near that, a manager that seems not to be able to see the plainly visible deficiencies in team selection, tactics, transfers (i could go on) and the huge hikes in ticket prices that doesnt allow me to watch my team all (for me) equals something is wrong throughout the club and i want/expect better. We should be winning leagues not have a manager saying he's happy with top 4

Another factor is ticket prices, we now pay arguably the highest in the prem league if not the whole fucking world. That gives us a right not to expect, but in fact demand success.

Cannot agree with you there sid - I am not saying that the prices shouldnt be a big factor in our dissatisfaction but for me it cannot be linked like that to no trophies frustration. As flash said, back in the 80's we would have been happy with a cup but I do not agree that our expectations/demands have changed and are now the cause of our anger - back then I knew that when we were not having success it was because we were not good enough but I consoled myself with the knowledge that we at least wanted to win but these days reaching top 4 is the height of our ambitions Wenger constantly talks about how reaching top 4 is like a trophy and has turned it into a primary target each season and as long as the club is getting that champs league football and the money coming with it then they have no need to change our working practices. That for me sums up the cause of my frustration.....we as a club are like a player that has all the potential in the world but who will never maximise that potential due to a bad attitude and for fans shelling out thousands of pounds a year that is simply unacceptable

[flash gunner]

Flash – I Should clarify that I have been questioning Wenger’s policies on and off the pitch since the failure to strengthen in Jan 2008 cost us a very winnable league. I then decided I’d support his “project” until May 2010, out of loyalty and hope. Which I did, but still always questioning his policies. When we were still potless in May 2010 (but more importantly, when it was very obvious that Arsene was not going to do what needed to be done by getting rid of the rubbish) I decided that’s that – enough! I’ve wanted him out since then. No one can say I didn’t give the man a fair chance!

I can remember exactly that mate i was just highlighting that all of the people who think Wenger has had his day and its time for change has at some point loved the bloke and we all changed at varying times depending how we viewed things, not depending on others on this forum

[highburyJD]

diff minds work in diff ways, some couldn't bring themselves to accept any failings
but once they do, once they recognise weaknesses and areas for improvement,
it's a short journey to seeing them as fundamentals and reaching the conclusion he's lost it
once some fans cross that rubicon, it can quickly descend into recriminations, bitterness and eventually anger and hatred

Wenger has loads of failings, some (that upset people here) would IMO be irrelevant if we were winning
certain phrases, methodologies of explanation, people see as 'excuses'. I just see them as ways the manager understands the game. A hard to define psychological factor limiting a teams play is relatively commonplace - I thought Barca played with "a little bit handbrake on" v Bayern and that their 70odd% of the possession was just a "sterile dominance".

I think we should have bought another striker with Giroud, failing to do so was annoying
Not addressing that squad gap in winter was unbelievable to me
as it happens, Giroud's form has seriously dipped in the half-dozen games before his 3 match ban
lots have said they're happy he's missing - I really don't see it like that
we now have very few attacking options at a key time.

I blame the manager for that, he will be judged on that if it costs us
but who gives a shit about a turn of phrase?

[Steve_I]

Steve I – I find your summation that those critical of Arsene on here are merely “follow(ing) the local path” a tad insulting to be honest. I for one really don’t give much of a shit what other people believe; I speak (and write) only for myself. I love and respect Arsene for what he achieved at our great club between 1997 and 2006 but I no longer believe he is the right man to lead us to what should be the only thing that matters to football fans; trophies! We are football fans – not accountants or economists – finances should NEVER be spoken of as if they are the equal of winning a trophy. Wenger has proven by failure season after season that he is no longer the right man for the job. Many things lead me to this conclusion, but mostly: the continued renewal (and improving) of rubbish players’ contracts; the refusal to be pragmatic and drop Tippy Tappy Barca-Lite and play to the strengths of the players he has not the players he wishes he had; and things like selling our best player to our supposed rivals.

Ask yourself this; would Ferguson ever, ever, in a million years, sell his best player to a team he viewed as rivals? Then ask yourself why that is?

Apologies. certainly no insult meant but I guess much the same as grouping all 'AKB's' into the same sheep pen, as it were, that happens around here, I have done likewise from the other direction and clearly I know that not all think the same. Folk do have individual opinions but sometimes for ease of response, such things fall from my fingers as I type. I can empathise with that feeling of being insulted though, just (if you can ) put yourself in my shoes and read some of the 'anti akb' comments (for want of a better phrase).

I truly believe that Arsene will prove to have been so much less powerful than folk here would have us believe when it comes to such as RVP to united and RVP and his agents and money are by far the biggest driver of the deal there, by far! so much so I said by far twice and have wasted time typing this rather than deleting one by far.

While I as much as any here can't abide that what happened happened, I don't think the Ferguson argument holds much water given the Player he sold to real madrid and while many may say that is different, I don't believe it is when you strip it bare and ask what trophies/titles are important to ferguson. CL/PL they're both up there I'm sure, on his priority list. I think the anger we all feel about it is greatly exaggerated by how fresh the wound is and how much that wound has been poked with a dirty stick so immediately and consistently since it was made.

I'm loathe to go down a list of players to try and cancel out every perceived bad decision with an apparent good one (and there HAVE to have been good ones otherwise we would be in a fucking darn site worse shape than top 5/6 of the PL).

I'd suggest, given a few years 'average decisions' a team would be in an 'average position' 9th to 12th? at absolute best. If we look at all the leagues then any premiership team is above average. We are measured against our all of our opponents surely, not just another 4 or 5. Yes Arsene has made some, with hindsight, questionable decisions but I purport that he makes a lot more 'good' decisions that get overlooked hereabouts and our position, as much as it could be better, WOULD be a bloody site worse if he were the incompetent blundering cognitively challeneged individual that some would have us believe he is.

Regarding not giving a shit what other people believe; I would like to say I agree with you there and I am exactly the same. However, if I didn't let it affect me, would I be responding to the opinions of people who I don't know on a forum on 'tinternetz? Nope, I of course am affected by others opinions and while my views are my own they are inevitable shaped, strengthened and changed by the views of others. In my case of course, more stubbonly and deeper into AKBworld

heck, rambled on there....

[highburyJD]

good post Steve I

[mcdowell42]

Pires :"Today at Arsenal the objective is to earn money and to be in the top four. With David Dein it was to win trophies" (fb)

[Blade]

That latest vid showing RVP training with his teammates has that double Man U agent Mikeal Silvesti in the picture also!

Thank AW for signing him eh.

[RNTGOONER]

Steve I – I find your summation that those critical of Arsene on here are merely “follow(ing) the local path” a tad insulting to be honest. I for one really don’t give much of a shit what other people believe; I speak (and write) only for myself. I love and respect Arsene for what he achieved at our great club between 1997 and 2006 but I no longer believe he is the right man to lead us to what should be the only thing that matters to football fans; trophies! We are football fans – not accountants or economists – finances should NEVER be spoken of as if they are the equal of winning a trophy. Wenger has proven by failure season after season that he is no longer the right man for the job. Many things lead me to this conclusion, but mostly: the continued renewal (and improving) of rubbish players’ contracts; the refusal to be pragmatic and drop Tippy Tappy Barca-Lite and play to the strengths of the players he has not the players he wishes he had; and things like selling our best player to our supposed rivals.

Ask yourself this; would Ferguson ever, ever, in a million years, sell his best player to a team he viewed as rivals? Then ask yourself why that is?

Apologies. certainly no insult meant but I guess much the same as grouping all 'AKB's' into the same sheep pen, as it were, that happens around here, I have done likewise from the other direction and clearly I know that not all think the same. Folk do have individual opinions but sometimes for ease of response, such things fall from my fingers as I type. I can empathise with that feeling of being insulted though, just (if you can ) put yourself in my shoes and read some of the 'anti akb' comments (for want of a better phrase).

I truly believe that Arsene will prove to have been so much less powerful than folk here would have us believe when it comes to such as RVP to united and RVP and his agents and money are by far the biggest driver of the deal there, by far! so much so I said by far twice and have wasted time typing this rather than deleting one by far.

While I as much as any here can't abide that what happened happened, I don't think the Ferguson argument holds much water given the Player he sold to real madrid and while many may say that is different, I don't believe it is when you strip it bare and ask what trophies/titles are important to ferguson. CL/PL they're both up there I'm sure, on his priority list. I think the anger we all feel about it is greatly exaggerated by how fresh the wound is and how much that wound has been poked with a dirty stick so immediately and consistently since it was made.

I'm loathe to go down a list of players to try and cancel out every perceived bad decision with an apparent good one (and there HAVE to have been good ones otherwise we would be in a fucking darn site worse shape than top 5/6 of the PL).

I'd suggest, given a few years 'average decisions' a team would be in an 'average position' 9th to 12th? at absolute best. If we look at all the leagues then any premiership team is above average. We are measured against our all of our opponents surely, not just another 4 or 5. Yes Arsene has made some, with hindsight, questionable decisions but I purport that he makes a lot more 'good' decisions that get overlooked hereabouts and our position, as much as it could be better, WOULD be a bloody site worse if he were the incompetent blundering cognitively challeneged individual that some would have us believe he is.

Regarding not giving a shit what other people believe; I would like to say I agree with you there and I am exactly the same. However, if I didn't let it affect me, would I be responding to the opinions of people who I don't know on a forum on 'tinternetz? Nope, I of course am affected by others opinions and while my views are my own they are inevitable shaped, strengthened and changed by the views of others. In my case of course, more stubbonly and deeper into AKBworld

heck, rambled on there....

I think this comes down to the much asked question about who enforces the spending cap, if he has had the money to buy top players then we should be doing better, I measure our club doing well not against what chavs or manc city do, but against Man Utd as in the past we have been able to compete with them and now we can't, also if you think that money aside people talk about Poldi as being one of the best finishers they have seen in training, and also looks handy when in front of the goal from range or short distance in games he has played, it is criminal to keep playing the French cart horse.

I honestly believe there is something in wenger where he likes to produce or refine French players and have them in the French national team so he comment on them in the summer, seems to give him an extra bit of pride, he also seems to have a fixation with producing the next big African player, personally I don't care where the players come from as long as they are good and respect the club, but I think he should have been looking to spain and germany for attacking players (not counting teenagers) as that is where the top technical talent seems to be these days, santi has proved that spending over 10 million in that market gets you alot better than the spending the same in France.

[LDB]

I've long argued that the single biggest factor stopping us progressing is the comical imbalance in our wage bill which is skewed towards having a large squad of average players. This is 100% down to Wenger, the bloke has admitted (and boasted) on several occasions that this is HIS policy and HIS philosophy, fuck all to do with the empty suits on the board. It effects us negatively in so many ways - it stops us moving shit players on while also stopping us paying top players like van rapist what he's worth.

It's not something that has a quick fix but the depressing thing is that its not even seen as a problem by anyone within the club. The rebuilding from this disastrous policy can only begin once Wenger is gone and that is providing that Wenger is replaced with someone wanting to change it. I'm afraid we're going to (at best) remain at this level until 4-5 years after Wenger leaves, at the earliest.

[SteveO 35]

Podolski subbed after 70 minutes. the king of unpredictability strikes again

[markyp]

Podolski subbed after 70 minutes. the king of unpredictability strikes again

one of the few 'class' players we have too,was quiet but with his finishing should have stayed on,Wenker clearly doesnt rate him.i wish wenker would just do one,his bullshit and inability to change tactics make it so easy to play against us,he is just a joke these days

[g88ner]

Wenger on Sir Alex Ferguson's transfer plans…
I don't know but he will not sign them from us!

Well, of course not - we've already been stripped of our best assets

[REB]

Wenger on Sir Alex Ferguson's transfer plans…
I don't know but he will not sign them from us!

Well, of course not - we've already been stripped of our best assets

we have no one he would want