DB10GOONER wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:51 am
A11M11 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:25 pm
There has been a total lack of understanding of what the EU is. We have been forced into trade negotiations with them , we have been forced to look at the financial markets and their importance to them . We have tried to base our campaign on an attempt to retain close economic ties to them . However we have missed the point that the
E.U is not a trading group anymore it is a Political project and you cannot negotiate with a project.
Various members of the 27 are using their position to try and squeeze concessions from the Uk. i.e Spain on uniting with Gibraltar ,
Ireland on reuniting with the North , Separating Scotland from the U.K because in the eyes of the committed europhiles the EU is an entity and if you want a part of the cake , you have to accept all of it.
Negotiation is not on their agenda and we should have realised and accepted that right at the outset.
I agree that there was no preparation for a no deal when the referendum result came out mainly because those that were our so called leaders did not think it could happen and had no stomach for it either. However that was the day that we should have started on life outside the union ,not trying to draw up a strategy to stay close to it. We should have realised that their was no deal available .
The E.U for their part was quite clear , they had four tenets and if you wanted one you took them all. They have never deviated and they will not. Their life depends on it , if they make a rule for one then everyone will want it and they will fragment and collapse.
Still we carry on hitting our collective heads on a brick wall . It would be better if we had walked at the very beginning because by now there would be agreements in place as both sides had suffered the loss of continuity and business. Both sides are important to each other , this is where business should have taken the lead not politicians.
Politicians are by their very nature poor at flexibility , they have their party line and they toe it. Businesss people learn early to think on their feet and see the possibilities rather than form a circle and protect their existing positions. The process was flawed from the start , if we need an implementation period we should take it but make it quite clear that at it's end , we will go and take our business elsewhere and if the EU countries want to share in our market , let them come and talk .
I saw that Augie who I usually agree with said that he hoped that the UK would not leave .Like many of the 27 they want the security of our armed forces but mainly the money.
It is quite fair to say that as the infrastucture of the poorer E.U nations has improved life in the UK has gone backwards . In my opinion this is because of the imbalance of the financial structure. It is no coincidence that life in Germany and France is in turmoil too and Italy the other long term nett contributor is basically a financial and political basket case . The nett receivers live up to their income and eventually like Greece , Portugal and Spain get into hock with the international banking system and find themselves being governed by the collective rather than their own governments . It's not healthy and it need to be stopped.
We continue to pour money into it whilst in the meantime have a colossal debt , It's time to get our own house in order, time to work out what's best for us . Time to set a course and stick to it outside the European project.
In amongst all your conspiracy big brother stuff there you have a couple of glaringly incorrect clangers - highlighted in red.
1.
The EU certainly is still a trade based group far more than it is a "political project". Believe me it's all about the money for most of them. There is certainly a political element but it is secondary to it being the second biggest economic entity in the world - because of trade.
2. The vast majority of the Irish population do not want a united Ireland. Most of us simply could not give a fuck. The rest? We understand that it would cripple this country. We could never afford to piss away the billions it would cost in security spending. Even our corrupt incompetent politicians know and understand this.
Personally I'd like to see Ireland out of the EU but the practical real world we live in dictates we are financially better off in rather than out. That's just reality - and tough shit really.
I agree, I see more fighting over money than anything else, of course where there is money to fight over there is politics
Telling China you can't do X or you will not be allowed to trade without sanctions in France vs you will not be able to trade without sanctions in Europe is massive. Trade/money drives the politics ?
Nearly every brexit leave argument was around money, and alot that were not contained false information talking about laws that are maybe confirmed by the EU but still are part of other agreements the UK are in (like most of the human rights protections) and the fact that leaving the EU will not stop refugees comming here.
I am still unsure if the long term would be better or worse for the UK finance if we leave or remain, i am pretty sure leaving under a half ass deal will be bad though.
Here is how being in the EU had a direct impact on me: at 17/18 i was not working or in UNI, I signed up to an EU founded education program in my area (hackney, east london) it is a poor area relative to others in London.
This education was free (if you could pass the entry exams) - they paid for Labs and Teachers to train me to get an GNVQ level 3, Comptia A+ certification, and CISCO CCNA certification, these are all technology related, they then got me a junior work placement, i got promoted and after about 5 years moved to a bigger company, I have never been out of work since and I am 33 now.
during the time i was studying, the UK job center kept giving me threats that I was not spending enough time searching for work, because i had spent too many hours studying, I asked them if they had something that similar, they told me they have the "new deal" training scheme, but I had not been OUT OF WORK LONG ENOUGH to join it (as I think it was used by Blair to prevent long term unemployment figures from registering), I asked them if there were any jobs in Technology i could apply for, they told me "you will not get a job in that market, more skilled people than you can't" that was my career advice... work for a supermarket.
The cost of that education was probably around £10k
The Tax i have paid to the UK goverment has to be many times this, in fact it was probably paid back in my first 18 months of work.
the Job seekers allowance i claimed for a about 2 years, also paid back.
in short The small EU program worked for me, where the Massive UK one failed me, there was probably more politics assigned to the UK one
So to me the EU and it Schemes are not ALL bad
This has to be ONE scheme were giving the EU money gives countries back more money in the long term as it was above the local politics of the local (UK/NEW LABOUR) scheme which was about perception as much as helping.
PS i have hated my job ever since, i would have had zero stress working in Tesco, interfering european crunts
PPS: I can't beleive i am posting this shit on a football forum ...... lock it down.
