As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
augie wrote:
[Ozil] Played wide as an attacking player and not as a winger expected to track back You also have to say that playing on the wing in the English league requires real speed which ozil doesn't have/doesn't use
Is that true?
I didn't watch Madrid last season, but I'm surprised a team managed by Mourinho would allow a wide player not to track back, especially as I can't see Ronaldo or their centre forward tracking back. To have 3 players without defensive duties seems odd for a Mourinho team that usually set up to be hard to break down.
@Augie
So you would allow Ozil to never track back?
To be a special Number 10, and have a role that only takes in attacking play, never crossing the half-way line into our own half?
We do not play him as an out and out winger either, he is more a player that cuts in than sprints up the touchline to put in a high cross?
Not all wide players in the Premiership have to have searing speed, they can be a skillful player too.
I prefer one of our wide players to be fast, preferably both but in Ozil's case he has speed of thought and speed of pass.
He seemed to drop deep at times for Germany when I saw him play for them, looking for the ball, getting into space.
augie wrote:
[Ozil] Played wide as an attacking player and not as a winger expected to track back You also have to say that playing on the wing in the English league requires real speed which ozil doesn't have/doesn't use
Is that true?
I didn't watch Madrid last season, but I'm surprised a team managed by Mourinho would allow a wide player not to track back, especially as I can't see Ronaldo or their centre forward tracking back. To have 3 players without defensive duties seems odd for a Mourinho team that usually set up to be hard to break down.
@Augie
So you would allow Ozil to never track back?
To be a special Number 10, and have a role that only takes in attacking play, never crossing the half-way line into our own half?
We do not play him as an out and out winger either, he is more a player that cuts in than sprints up the touchline to put in a high cross?
Not all wide players in the Premiership have to have searing speed, they can be a skillful player too.
I prefer one of our wide players to be fast, preferably both but in Ozil's case he has speed of thought and speed of pass.
He seemed to drop deep at times for Germany when I saw him play for them, looking for the ball, getting into space.
Quartz if you are asking me if I would play ozil in an (almost) exclusively attacking role then my answer would be a definite yes. I hated cuntona as a player but when he referred to the difference between artists (himself) and water carriers (deschamps) I agreed with him 100% - I don't see the point in signing ozil and asking him to do the donkey work on the team cos (a) it's not what I bought him for and (b) he isn't good at it anyway I know I keep saying it but why spend 42m on a player and not utilise his talents in the best way possible ? Of course there are times when every player would be expected to pitch in defensively but in our formation, playing on the wing requires an awful lot of tracking back and ozil and/or cazorla out there is an absolute waste of talent imo
Re your second point about ozil's habit of dropping deep on occasion, can I say that you yourself made the point that he does so in a bid to get on the ball and/or find space for himself, and that is totally different than asking him to drop deep in a defensive mode
I do think that Ozil can play well at Number 10 or wide midfield, I do not think playing wide diminishes his effectiveness, though I may be proved wrong in future.
For me, I think he can play wide midfield very much in the style of Pires, who was to me "Another Bergkamp, but out wide" whilst Bergkamp was playing at number 10.
Cutting in, forming a good partnership with an overlapping full back, and forming a great partnership with Cazorla.
It all depends who else is fit...as you have pointed out previously, we have Cazorla and Rosicky who can also play number 10, plus Wilshere and Zelalem and possibly even Podolski if we spread the net wider.
And I do agree that Ozil should not be forced to spring back all match long this would reduce the power of his forward runs...Henry used to make forward power runs during a game but perhaps a maximum of seven per game, anymore than that and he said he would lose too his ability to run at full speed.
Quartz, I would bet my life that pires would fail in this system - playing in a 4-4-2 has different demands/responsibilities that what this fcuked up abomination of a formation does
God I hate this system so fcuking much
Put Diego Costa in front of Özil and he would look like a £42m player instantly. We have a donkey who doesn't move upfront which is why we're not getting the best out of Özil.
He's an incredible talent, probably the most naturally gifted player we've had since Dennis. And it would be an absolute crime if we didn't supplement him with a world class striker on his level, who will convert the chances he can create with his vision. Dennis had Henry, Özil has Giroud. Enough said.
Btw I find it disgusting how the media just can't have enough of slagging him off. He's only been here a year and done well enough without being spectacular and has showen glimpses of his undoubted quality. Next year he'll be fully settled and hopefully with a top striker infront him, we'll see the best of him.
1989 wrote:
[Ozil's] an incredible talent, probably the most naturally gifted player we've had since Dennis. And it would be an absolute crime if we didn't supplement him with a world class striker on his level, who will convert the chances he can create with his vision. Dennis had Henry, Özil has Giroud. Enough said.
I will go on record to say that Ozil is the most astonishing passer of a ball I have seen since Bergkamp, and I saw Bergkamp play in person about 200 times.
I have regularly gone to games since 1978, so I have seen a few greats, but Ozil's speed of thought and pass is mind-boggling.
And I speak as someone who marvelled at how good Henry and Pires were, who saw Brady in his prime and Cesc too.
As for Giroud, same old from me, a very good level of player to have as our second choice striker, but we need a better striker to fully compete.
Exactly. He's a special talent, a one in a generation type of player. It's a miracle we have him in the first place as no club outside of Real Madrid would be crazy enough to let him go. That's why it's a pain to see that we're not providing him with the quality that he needs infront of him to truly flourish. How can you have Özil and then tell him to work with the oaf that is Giroud. It would be akin to telling Dennis to work with Duncan Ferguson back in the day.
1989 wrote:Put Diego Costa in front of Özil and he would look like a £42m player instantly. We have a donkey who doesn't move upfront which is why we're not getting the best out of Özil.
He's an incredible talent, probably the most naturally gifted player we've had since Dennis. And it would be an absolute crime if we didn't supplement him with a world class striker on his level, who will convert the chances he can create with his vision. Dennis had Henry, Özil has Giroud. Enough said.
Btw I find it disgusting how the media just can't have enough of slagging him off. He's only been here a year and done well enough without being spectacular and has showen glimpses of his undoubted quality. Next year he'll be fully settled and hopefully with a top striker infront him, we'll see the best of him.
I agree absolutely with your assesment of giroud (still better than wakemeup mind you) but your comparison with Bergkamp is partially moot and partially backs up my earlier point - Bergkamp, with his world class vision and passing was effective when played centrally where he could pick those passes and was more involved in the game, whilst ozil is marooned on the wing and stifled in a way that borders on the criminal. Buying a world class pacy striker would def help him but he still wouldnt be all he could be if he is played on the wing and the system remains the same
1989 wrote:Put Diego Costa in front of Özil and he would look like a £42m player instantly. We have a donkey who doesn't move upfront which is why we're not getting the best out of Özil.
He's an incredible talent, probably the most naturally gifted player we've had since Dennis. And it would be an absolute crime if we didn't supplement him with a world class striker on his level, who will convert the chances he can create with his vision. Dennis had Henry, Özil has Giroud. Enough said.
Btw I find it disgusting how the media just can't have enough of slagging him off. He's only been here a year and done well enough without being spectacular and has showen glimpses of his undoubted quality. Next year he'll be fully settled and hopefully with a top striker infront him, we'll see the best of him.
I agree absolutely with your assesment of giroud (still better than wakemeup mind you) but your comparison with Bergkamp is partially moot and partially backs up my earlier point - Bergkamp, with his world class vision and passing was effective when played centrally where he could pick those passes and was more involved in the game, whilst ozil is marooned on the wing and stifled in a way that borders on the criminal. Buying a world class pacy striker would def help him but he still wouldnt be all he could be if he is played on the wing and the system remains the same
clockender1 wrote:Ozil like Caz, likes to be moving when they receive the ball rather than static - if only cos its easier to drop a shoulder or tap it past a CM, and then attack some space to give them time to weigh up their options to put someone else in or run on themselves.
I largely agree with your post but say that Cazorla does have that ability to drop his shoulder and make some space for himself. Ozil has it too but it's a lot more languid and not based on genuine pace.
Skizz, I was saying they both do have that. Interesting your languid comment - when Pires replaced Over Overmars, i thought he wouldn't be as effective for the same reason - he seemed languid, lacksadaisical etc but he was bloody effective and deceptively quick....I think Ozzy may be the same there.
ah indeed you did. i'll just shut the fuck up now.
clockender1 wrote:Ozil like Caz, likes to be moving when they receive the ball rather than static - if only cos its easier to drop a shoulder or tap it past a CM, and then attack some space to give them time to weigh up their options to put someone else in or run on themselves.
I largely agree with your post but say that Cazorla does have that ability to drop his shoulder and make some space for himself. Ozil has it too but it's a lot more languid and not based on genuine pace.
Skizz, I was saying they both do have that. Interesting your languid comment - when Pires replaced Over Overmars, i thought he wouldn't be as effective for the same reason - he seemed languid, lacksadaisical etc but he was bloody effective and deceptively quick....I think Ozzy may be the same there.
ah indeed you did. i'll just shut the fuck up now.
You also have to say that playing on the wing in the English league requires real speed which ozil doesn't have/doesn't use
