SteveO 35 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:45 am
Retro Gunner wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:22 am
SteveO 35 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:27 am
I go back to my comparison with Wenger. Amongst many things, one of the biggest (rightful) criticisms of him (and one confirmed by players who played under him) is that tactically he was very limited. He had one style of play, paid no attention to the opposition we were faced with and by the time Maureen and a host of other modern coaches came along in the mid-late noughties, he was well and truly found out. We got consistently walloped away from home by Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Ure, City plus the likes of Bayern and Barca, and he still never had that "a-ha" moment where he thought....do you know what this doesn't work anymore.
What I will say for Arteta is that he's bold enough to try different things. He's getting slated now for rotating the keepers but many on here have been critical of Ramsdale.
Havertz isn't half as bad as being made out on here. I couldn't give a flying fuck about how shit he was at Chelsea. So were Sterling and a whole host of other players who have had fantastic careers elsewhere. As is being proven again this season, that place is somewhere to go to ruin even the best of careers. Multiple managers, random rotated squad selection, no identity or team spirit - I bet if you sent Saka down there he'd turn to rat shit inside a year
I don't mind managers trying new things and accept the fact it won't always come off. I'd take that over a gormless, outdated, dinosaur who knew one way and one way only despite 8-2, 6-0, 6-3, 5-1 x 2 etc.
Well, it's all about opinions and you're perfectly entitled to rate Havertz. Some people rated Xhaka. In my opinion, Havertz is absolutely fucking useless and I've no idea what Arteta thinks he brings to the team, but maybe El Basque (copyright Augie) thinks he can unearth a talent that no one in this country has seen in the bloke.
What I don't get SteveO is the second sentence I've highlighted. We've got 3 years of evidence at Chelsea that he's crap, but you don't give a "flying fuck" about that because of the dysfunction at the club. I'll agree that it's been a mess...although they won the CL under Tuchel....but that doesn't mean that I can't look at a player and work out if he's any good or not. Just off the top of my head I can think of Rudiger, Kovacic, Rees James and maybe Chilwell that I'd have taken at the Arsenal, even though I'd only seen them playing in a chaotic period at Chelsea. I wouldn't have taken Havertz on a free, let alone for 65 million.
The point is a simple one mate - I can't stand Chelsea (or many other teams!) and a player's form for them means nothing to me. Patrick Vieira was a reject at AC Milan, Henry didn't cut it at Juventus, not many people on here (me included) wanted Zinchenko or Jesus....but as soon as they pull on that red and white shirt, I couldn't give a flying fuck at what they did at any other club. Lots of people wanted Caicedo on here - he's done fuck all at Chelsea, but I bet if we were offered him or Mudryk in a year's time and they did well for us, nobody would give a shit how they played for that rabble
I don't think Havertz is a world beater, but he's becoming a convenient scapegoat for when we don't play well. When he came on the other day he wasn't any worse than a number of players out there - players who have had far more chances in the Arsenal shirt. Granit Xhaka played 297 times for Arsenal. Havertz has played half a dozen games - there's no comparison really
The point doesn't make any sense mate. The times I hear this crap about Viera, Henry, Pires and even Bergkamp for fuck sake. Vieira was very young and spent a season at Milan where he wasn't played, so he was hardly a flop. Henry did struggle in his season at Juve, but was proven before that. He didn't get off to a flyer with us, but it was clear he had ability. I personally rated Pires from day one and anyone that had doubts about Dennis ought to follow a different sport.
The situation with Havertz is entirely different and nothing to do with scapegoating. He's been a complete flop at chelsea for 3 fucking seasons, not 3 weeks or 3 months. So because you hate Chelsea, you'd be prepared to buy a player from them regardless of form, or ability? Fuck me. You ought to apply for the Arsenal manager's job, because that seems bang in line with our approach to buying Chelsea rejects. Not giving a "flying fuck" about what a player has done at previous clubs isn't much of a buying strategy is it...what yardstick do you use? If all you do is wait and see how the bloke performs in a red and white shirt, then you ought to be pretty concerned about Havertz.
As for him being no worse than others on Sunday (debatable), who are we talking about, Vieira perhaps, because it's hard to think of another candidate that is consistently poor, which is exactly what Havertz has been in his half a dozen appearances. Being "no worse" than other poor performers is a pretty low bar and hardly a glowing recommendation and particularly when you're poor in every game. One thing I'll guarantee you is that we won't be talking about Havertz in the way we were talking about Paddy or Henry in 6 months or a years' time.
For what it's worth, I'll say it again, being not good enough isn't the fault of Havertz, just as it wasn't the fault of Xhaka, it's all lies at the door of the bloke that buys/picks them.
I've always considered you an excellent poster on here mate, but there's one hell of a blind spot going on with Havertz. Still, opinions and all that I suppose.
Anyone who knows anything about the game understands that for the most part centre backs are all about partnerships - we had a good centre back partnership last season and have fcuked about with it and it is costing us big time - a proper left sided centre back would be more comfortable covering that side when we have out of position players playing at left full, so stability should be paramount right now - instead this gormless cock has weakened our whole back 4 and that will explain why we are conceding from never every shot the opposition has.
