This is a very good thread with some quality posts.
I will stick by what I said, that come the end of May that's the time for judgment. He'll then have had 5 years to show if his 'plan/s' can work. So we'll see in May.
Wenger has got to go!
@U.F.G Anfield '89
Your post does make some valid points (like mentioning GG's defence) and is nicely written and all that...and i understand your point of view, but sorry mate, I simply don't buy it anymore:
The bottom line is we must continue to qualify for the champions league every year until the stadium debt is paid off, we must do this while spending very little....and when the stadium debt is paid off and we see our spending power increase we will politely ask Mr Wenger to retire and take a place in the boadroom.
...so can you please clarify for me these points:
How long before we paid off the debt? 10 years? 15 years? How many paying supporters are prepared to put up with this attitude for so long?
How can you or anyone else be sure that TOP4 finish "while spending very little" is realistic achievement considering NEW spending power of Man City and possibly other clubs in near future? Despite all talk of us going for a title, it's sobering thought that TOP4 finish is by no means guaranteed even this season...You see, the problem here (and main cause of my anger with AW) is not us being level below ManUre and Chelsky, I can accept that, the problem is our manager constantly telling us that we are on same level as those two, that this is best ever Arsenal squad, that we are 2% from greatness...basically I'm sick of Arsene Wenger treating us as mugs, telling neverending lies (or are those lies? maybe he really believes this bullshit - a really scary prospect), as if keeping this mantra would make all those things come true. It won't .
...so let's assume we've done our 10 or 15 "lean" years, debt is paid off, Wenger has moved upstairs...then what? Do you seriously think board (or whoever owner is at the time) would all of sudden say: Let's spend some serious money, let's buy some quality players, let's dominate, we haven't done that for twenty years? Or is it more likely they will say: let's continue as if nothing has happened, those fools who''ve been paying most expensive footballing tickets in the world will continue to do so regardless of money we (never) spend...
The way I see it, people like you mate, who are prepared to go with Wenger's project for another 10 - 15 years are basically scared of change.
And change we need. Sooner the better.
@Connoly 55
" I actually thought to myself today how many premiership teams Almunia would get into, and i struggled big time."
Hull city
Wolves
Wigan
Blackburn???
Burnley???
So the answer is def 3, maybe 5
@augie
"I am so so pissed off with wenger right now that not even winning the champs lge will redeem him in my eyes"
I know a lot of harsh things have been written here recently, but I will send Arsene Wenger an apology letter if we win Champions League this may 
Your post does make some valid points (like mentioning GG's defence) and is nicely written and all that...and i understand your point of view, but sorry mate, I simply don't buy it anymore:
The bottom line is we must continue to qualify for the champions league every year until the stadium debt is paid off, we must do this while spending very little....and when the stadium debt is paid off and we see our spending power increase we will politely ask Mr Wenger to retire and take a place in the boadroom.
...so can you please clarify for me these points:
How long before we paid off the debt? 10 years? 15 years? How many paying supporters are prepared to put up with this attitude for so long?
How can you or anyone else be sure that TOP4 finish "while spending very little" is realistic achievement considering NEW spending power of Man City and possibly other clubs in near future? Despite all talk of us going for a title, it's sobering thought that TOP4 finish is by no means guaranteed even this season...You see, the problem here (and main cause of my anger with AW) is not us being level below ManUre and Chelsky, I can accept that, the problem is our manager constantly telling us that we are on same level as those two, that this is best ever Arsenal squad, that we are 2% from greatness...basically I'm sick of Arsene Wenger treating us as mugs, telling neverending lies (or are those lies? maybe he really believes this bullshit - a really scary prospect), as if keeping this mantra would make all those things come true. It won't .
...so let's assume we've done our 10 or 15 "lean" years, debt is paid off, Wenger has moved upstairs...then what? Do you seriously think board (or whoever owner is at the time) would all of sudden say: Let's spend some serious money, let's buy some quality players, let's dominate, we haven't done that for twenty years? Or is it more likely they will say: let's continue as if nothing has happened, those fools who''ve been paying most expensive footballing tickets in the world will continue to do so regardless of money we (never) spend...
The way I see it, people like you mate, who are prepared to go with Wenger's project for another 10 - 15 years are basically scared of change.
And change we need. Sooner the better.
@Connoly 55
" I actually thought to myself today how many premiership teams Almunia would get into, and i struggled big time."
Hull city
Wolves
Wigan
Blackburn???
Burnley???
So the answer is def 3, maybe 5
@augie
"I am so so pissed off with wenger right now that not even winning the champs lge will redeem him in my eyes"
I know a lot of harsh things have been written here recently, but I will send Arsene Wenger an apology letter if we win Champions League this may
Last edited by skipper on Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
People have pointed to the departure of Vieira and Dein as reasons for our recent troubles but I agree with whoever it was that pointed out the link between our success under Wenger and the George Graham defence. The last of which departed in 2004.
Wenger doesn't understand the importance of defence and will therefore never sort it out. All four of our current first choice defenders have proved that they are capable of being quality defenders but they look like they never practice playing as a unit. It's criminal some of the stuff that happens.
I've actually thought for at least a couple of years that Wenger's time should come to an end. We're at a cross roads, with the emergence of new powers like City, our CL place is under threat and if we do lose it, all of the effort put in around the new stadium etc will then become a massive problem.
The financial state of the club is not the managers problem. I want my manager to go and ask for as much money as possible and then spend it to improve the team as much as possible. To not use the £30m that he has been offered when we have the players we have means he is not doing his job properly.
I will always be grateful to Wenger for what he has done but I just want him to go now before he ruins his reputation any more
Wenger doesn't understand the importance of defence and will therefore never sort it out. All four of our current first choice defenders have proved that they are capable of being quality defenders but they look like they never practice playing as a unit. It's criminal some of the stuff that happens.
I've actually thought for at least a couple of years that Wenger's time should come to an end. We're at a cross roads, with the emergence of new powers like City, our CL place is under threat and if we do lose it, all of the effort put in around the new stadium etc will then become a massive problem.
The financial state of the club is not the managers problem. I want my manager to go and ask for as much money as possible and then spend it to improve the team as much as possible. To not use the £30m that he has been offered when we have the players we have means he is not doing his job properly.
I will always be grateful to Wenger for what he has done but I just want him to go now before he ruins his reputation any more
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olgitgooner
- Posts: 7431
- Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:39 am
- Location: Brexitland
It sickens me that so many people are wanting Arsene to fuck off.
Yes, he is stubborn. Yes, he has made some really poor team selections. Yes, he has been reluctant to spend money. Yes, he keeps selecting sub-standard players. Yes, he seems to have lost the plot, of late.Yes, we are going to win fuck all for the fifth year running.
He's still one of the best managers in the world.
The successes he bought us were not a result of a big fat chequebook (as enjoyed by Ferguson for many years, and "the special one" for a few years.
It was down to excellent management. Within limited resources.
I really can't see any new manager coming in, who will wave some magic wand and present us with the Prem or CL.
Yes, he is stubborn. Yes, he has made some really poor team selections. Yes, he has been reluctant to spend money. Yes, he keeps selecting sub-standard players. Yes, he seems to have lost the plot, of late.Yes, we are going to win fuck all for the fifth year running.
He's still one of the best managers in the world.
The successes he bought us were not a result of a big fat chequebook (as enjoyed by Ferguson for many years, and "the special one" for a few years.
It was down to excellent management. Within limited resources.
I really can't see any new manager coming in, who will wave some magic wand and present us with the Prem or CL.
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SWLGooner
- Posts: 10483
- Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:58 pm
- Location: Islington Town Hall, applauding the fourth place trophy.
I don't want him to fuck off, just to stop being stubborn and admit we aint good enough, buy players and WIN.olgitgooner wrote: It was down to excellent management. Within limited resources.
I really can't see any new manager coming in, who will wave some magic wand and present us with the Prem or CL.
BUT we now have the chequebook with which a Mourinho can do wonders.
Lets put this in perspective
1992/1993 Season - Arsenal finish 10th place
1993/1994 Season - Arsenal finish 4th place
1994/1995 Season - Arsenal finish 12th place
1995/1996 Season - Arsenal finish 5th place
In Arsene's first season after joining in September we finished 3rd place level on points with 2nd place Newcastle, the following season we won our first premier league title and became only the second team to do the double twice, we then finished 1 point behind champions United in 1998/99, in 1999/2000, we again finished 2nd in the table and made the Uefa cup final. AGAIN in 00/01 we finished second behind United. In 01/02 we again won the double. After finishing runners up in 02/03 we then went on to go a whole season without losing 1 single game winning the title. 04/05 we finished second. in 05/06 we reached our first ever european cup final and were unlucky to lose. 06/07 we finished 4th level on points with 3rd. 07/08 we finished 3rd and 08/09 we were 4th.
We havnt once failed to make the champions league, we are now a massive world wide club, and Arsene Wenger has made this happen. Maybe some fans have not had the chance to see what it used to be like, but we've come on so much under this man and for me he has a job for life and i am 110% behind what he trys to do.
Arsene Wenger for me has made Arsenal into the superpower we are becoming and there is no other manager who could create such beautiful football from scratch.
1992/1993 Season - Arsenal finish 10th place
1993/1994 Season - Arsenal finish 4th place
1994/1995 Season - Arsenal finish 12th place
1995/1996 Season - Arsenal finish 5th place
In Arsene's first season after joining in September we finished 3rd place level on points with 2nd place Newcastle, the following season we won our first premier league title and became only the second team to do the double twice, we then finished 1 point behind champions United in 1998/99, in 1999/2000, we again finished 2nd in the table and made the Uefa cup final. AGAIN in 00/01 we finished second behind United. In 01/02 we again won the double. After finishing runners up in 02/03 we then went on to go a whole season without losing 1 single game winning the title. 04/05 we finished second. in 05/06 we reached our first ever european cup final and were unlucky to lose. 06/07 we finished 4th level on points with 3rd. 07/08 we finished 3rd and 08/09 we were 4th.
We havnt once failed to make the champions league, we are now a massive world wide club, and Arsene Wenger has made this happen. Maybe some fans have not had the chance to see what it used to be like, but we've come on so much under this man and for me he has a job for life and i am 110% behind what he trys to do.
Arsene Wenger for me has made Arsenal into the superpower we are becoming and there is no other manager who could create such beautiful football from scratch.
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u2bagooner
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:48 am
But Wenger is now taking us backwards, his stubborness is beyond ridiculous and the way he hands out bumper contracts to these under achievers doesn't make sense given his frugal nature. Look at the way Rooney wanted it yesterday with all the medals dripping off him, it is embarrassing and whoever still says in Arsene we trust, two words Almunia/Denilson !!
Wasn't Nasri the next ZZ??? Walcott - a one trick pony without a trick is just pony, Bendtner-we are pinning our hopes on him. The list goes on and on.
It is time to part company, sorry he runs the club from top to bottom, answers to nobody and until the crowd shows it's unrest, the board will keep going content with 4th place.
Wasn't Nasri the next ZZ??? Walcott - a one trick pony without a trick is just pony, Bendtner-we are pinning our hopes on him. The list goes on and on.
It is time to part company, sorry he runs the club from top to bottom, answers to nobody and until the crowd shows it's unrest, the board will keep going content with 4th place.
How the fcuk are we becoming a superpower ? Like it or not we are fast becoming a selling club incapable of holding onto our best players 
I dont doubt cesc's loyalty to the cause for 1 second but I 100% believe that if xavi or iniesta left barca in the morning and they made a serious play for cesc then I believe he would be gone. We no longer can entice the likes of a Bergkamp to join us nor do we have any inclination to buy a player of that ilk 
Over the last few years we have seen porto win a champs lge, leverkusen beaten in a final while the likes of monaco have been beaten in the semi's - what this shows is that teams like them/us can have their day in the sun but the really big superpower teams have a long sustained periods of supremacy the likes of which you can forget about seeing at our club anytime soon Like it or not all we have to show for the last 5 seasons is 4th place finishes and runners up in a champs lge final (please dont embarass yourself by mentioning the beer cup )
I dont doubt cesc's loyalty to the cause for 1 second but I 100% believe that if xavi or iniesta left barca in the morning and they made a serious play for cesc then I believe he would be gone. We no longer can entice the likes of a Bergkamp to join us nor do we have any inclination to buy a player of that ilk Over the last few years we have seen porto win a champs lge, leverkusen beaten in a final while the likes of monaco have been beaten in the semi's - what this shows is that teams like them/us can have their day in the sun but the really big superpower teams have a long sustained periods of supremacy the likes of which you can forget about seeing at our club anytime soon
Like it or not all we have to show for the last 5 seasons is 4th place finishes and runners up in a champs lge final (please dont embarass yourself by mentioning the beer cup )Who is content with 4th place? Nobody wants to underachieve, im sure Wenger more than ANY of us wants to succeed, were sitting in 3rd position at the moment, comfortably and over the next few months we'll find out just how good or bad these players really are.u2bagooner wrote:But Wenger is now taking us backwards, his stubborness is beyond ridiculous and the way he hands out bumper contracts to these under achievers doesn't make sense given his frugal nature. Look at the way Rooney wanted it yesterday with all the medals dripping off him, it is embarrassing and whoever still says in Arsene we trust, two words Almunia/Denilson !!
Wasn't Nasri the next ZZ??? Walcott - a one trick pony without a trick is just pony, Bendtner-we are pinning our hopes on him. The list goes on and on.
It is time to part company, sorry he runs the club from top to bottom, answers to nobody and until the crowd shows it's unrest, the board will keep going content with 4th place.
To write off Samir Nasri who is 22 years old, Theo Walcott who is 20 years old and Bendtner who is 22 years old is laughable, they have a minumum of 5 more years to develop. Whether they should be thrown in at the deep end right now is another arguement.
If you really want to put it into perspective, I suggest you add our cup success in between 1992-96 (domestic and European!), since you've added it to Wenger's era...also you could have started from 1988/89 season, couldn't you, but I guess that would'n make Wenger's impact as dramatic as you intended...AFCWozza wrote:Lets put this in perspective
1992/1993 Season - Arsenal finish 10th place
1993/1994 Season - Arsenal finish 4th place
1994/1995 Season - Arsenal finish 12th place
1995/1996 Season - Arsenal finish 5th place
In Arsene's first season after joining in September we finished 3rd place level on points with 2nd place Newcastle, the following season we won our first premier league title and became only the second team to do the double twice, we then finished 1 point behind champions United in 1998/99, in 1999/2000, we again finished 2nd in the table and made the Uefa cup final. AGAIN in 00/01 we finished second behind United. In 01/02 we again won the double. After finishing runners up in 02/03 we then went on to go a whole season without losing 1 single game winning the title. 04/05 we finished second. in 05/06 we reached our first ever european cup final and were unlucky to lose. 06/07 we finished 4th level on points with 3rd. 07/08 we finished 3rd and 08/09 we were 4th.
We havnt once failed to make the champions league, we are now a massive world wide club, and Arsene Wenger has made this happen. Maybe some fans have not had the chance to see what it used to be like, but we've come on so much under this man and for me he has a job for life and i am 110% behind what he trys to do.
Arsene Wenger for me has made Arsenal into the superpower we are becoming and there is no other manager who could create such beautiful football from scratch.
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brazilianGOONER
- Posts: 9208
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:27 am
- Location: i think we're parked, man
- Contact:
wise words, as usualolgitgooner wrote:It sickens me that so many people are wanting Arsene to fuck off.
Yes, he is stubborn. Yes, he has made some really poor team selections. Yes, he has been reluctant to spend money. Yes, he keeps selecting sub-standard players. Yes, he seems to have lost the plot, of late.Yes, we are going to win fuck all for the fifth year running.
He's still one of the best managers in the world.
The successes he bought us were not a result of a big fat chequebook (as enjoyed by Ferguson for many years, and "the special one" for a few years.
It was down to excellent management. Within limited resources.
I really can't see any new manager coming in, who will wave some magic wand and present us with the Prem or CL.
-
I Hate Hleb
- Posts: 18632
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 3:36 pm
- Location: London
One could easily respond with:AFCWozza wrote:Lets put this in perspective
1992/1993 Season - Arsenal finish 10th place
1993/1994 Season - Arsenal finish 4th place
1994/1995 Season - Arsenal finish 12th place
1995/1996 Season - Arsenal finish 5th place
......
92/93 - Arsenal won both FA Cup and League Cup, becoming first club ever to achieve this;
93/94 - Arsenal won European Cup Winners Cup
94/95 - Arsenal reach the final again and are unlucky to lose in extra-time, thus denying them history as first team to retain CWC
95/96 - Under a new manager we qualify for the EUFA Cup and improve the style of play of the team. And of course, it was the introduction of one Dennis Bergkamp to the side.
Can I remind you that 2004 apart, most of that success was built on the back of a great defence - which played a prominent part in Arsenal success in the years you earlier disparaged; and players bought by other managers?AFCWozza wrote:..In Arsene's first season after joining in September we finished 3rd place level on points with 2nd place Newcastle, the following season we won our first premier league title and became only the second team to do the double twice, we then finished 1 point behind champions United in 1998/99, in 1999/2000, we again finished 2nd in the table and made the Uefa cup final. AGAIN in 00/01 we finished second behind United. In 01/02 we again won the double. After finishing runners up in 02/03 we then went on to go a whole season without losing 1 single game winning the title. 04/05 we finished second. in 05/06 we reached our first ever european cup final and were unlucky to lose. 06/07 we finished 4th level on points with 3rd. 07/08 we finished 3rd and 08/09 we were 4th...
Now I agree by and large with the rest of what you wrote but I question your desire for him to stay for life. What, under any circumstances?AFCWozza wrote:...We havnt once failed to make the champions league, we are now a massive world wide club, and Arsene Wenger has made this happen. Maybe some fans have not had the chance to see what it used to be like, but we've come on so much under this man and for me he has a job for life and i am 110% behind what he trys to do.
Arsene Wenger for me has made Arsenal into the superpower we are becoming and there is no other manager who could create such beautiful football from scratch.
Whilst I do admire your loyalty to the cause and all that, I do wonder whether you are one of those younger gooners that think Arsenal only became famous under Wenger and that AFC actually stands for Arsene Football Club? Thankyou for the response, yes we won the FA Cup and League cup double in 92/93 and the cup winners cup in 1994 but my main emphasis was on the premier league years and our progression in that competition, we never came closer than 19 points from the title before Wenger took charge.skipper wrote:If you really want to put it into perspective, I suggest you add our cup success in between 1992-96 (domestic and European!), since you've added it to Wenger's era...also you could have started from 1988/89 season, couldn't you, but I guess that would'n make Wenger's impact as dramatic as you intended...AFCWozza wrote:Lets put this in perspective
1992/1993 Season - Arsenal finish 10th place
1993/1994 Season - Arsenal finish 4th place
1994/1995 Season - Arsenal finish 12th place
1995/1996 Season - Arsenal finish 5th place
In Arsene's first season after joining in September we finished 3rd place level on points with 2nd place Newcastle, the following season we won our first premier league title and became only the second team to do the double twice, we then finished 1 point behind champions United in 1998/99, in 1999/2000, we again finished 2nd in the table and made the Uefa cup final. AGAIN in 00/01 we finished second behind United. In 01/02 we again won the double. After finishing runners up in 02/03 we then went on to go a whole season without losing 1 single game winning the title. 04/05 we finished second. in 05/06 we reached our first ever european cup final and were unlucky to lose. 06/07 we finished 4th level on points with 3rd. 07/08 we finished 3rd and 08/09 we were 4th.
We havnt once failed to make the champions league, we are now a massive world wide club, and Arsene Wenger has made this happen. Maybe some fans have not had the chance to see what it used to be like, but we've come on so much under this man and for me he has a job for life and i am 110% behind what he trys to do.
Arsene Wenger for me has made Arsenal into the superpower we are becoming and there is no other manager who could create such beautiful football from scratch.
Im not saying im delighted with Wenger at the moment, but what i am saying is for me, i wouldnt give the job to any other man at this moment in time, if things continue like this for 3 or 4 more seasons then maybe i could see things changing.
absolutely spot on,the current board/manager are so detatched from us fans they have no idea what we really think.At least with dein he was in touch and understood us fans cos he's one aswell.no one is close enough to see whats really goin onConnolly55 wrote:Since David Dein left its all gone downhill if you ask me. Why does he not listen to the fans, or use a bit of common sense atleast? Anyone can see we need to buy players. I actually thought to myself today how many premiership teams Almunia would get into, and i struggled big time.
I'd like to be in the clear about the money situation aswell, have we got money to spend? Is Wenger being stubborn? Are we in debt?
As soon as RVP was ruled out for the rest of the season he should have brought someone in. Simple as. Now im all for pretty football, but at the end of the day i'd rather win 1-0, hoofing it long all day, then lose 3-0 by playing attractive football.
i'm sad to say it and have always defended him till the last but aw's comment today was the final straw for me 'IF ANYTHING WE HAVE TOO MANY PLAYERS' that is the most deluded thing anyone has ever said-time to go
