It's all a load of Cannonballs in here! This is the virtual Arsenal pub where you can chat about anything except football. Be warned though, like any pub, the content may not always be suitable for everyone.
goonersid wrote:I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of that bastard race country. 9/11 whilst a tragedy, was somewhat self-inflicted, the us is the worlds biggest terrorist aided and abetted by their uk sidekick.
And the "murder"of bin laden will reap a similar atrocity.
Fuck the yanks and their big fucking mouths.
PS I'm still a bit drink from last night, but I do hate fucking yanks.
I usually like your posts but this was ridiculous. Try not to post when you are drunk because it ends up with you saying ridiculous things like "the US is the world’s biggest terrorist"? I love how people's hatred of America makes them turn a blind eye to disgusting regimes like North Korea, Iran, Syria, China and the like. The USA is a great democracy that allows its people freedom of speech, religious and cultural expression – give me them any day of the week.
I never understood how people from other democratic nations, especially ones as close as the UK and the US, can flat out "hate" the people of the other. Can you hate the way our government has done things? Sure. Can you hate our sports or films or influence on the world as a whole? Yes. But to say you hate American people as a whole is just ignorance. If your country were being attacked we would be the first to help you.
I dont get it either, I can guarantee that once people have experienced a generation of chinese global domination they will be begging for the United States back. Its not perfect, nowhere and no government is, but its values are spot on, even if values are not always reflected perfectly in reality. But thats life.
The people in the UK that are anti-American are a noisy minority with plenty of growing up still to do. I like to think that very few people outside the constituency of student pub bores who actually buy into this anti-american guff. I hope so anyway.
Last edited by LDB on Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
goonersid wrote:I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of that bastard race country. 9/11 whilst a tragedy, was somewhat self-inflicted, the us is the worlds biggest terrorist aided and abetted by their uk sidekick.
And the "murder"of bin laden will reap a similar atrocity.
Fuck the yanks and their big fucking mouths.
PS I'm still a bit drink from last night, but I do hate fucking yanks.
9/11 self inflicted? Enlighten me with your geo-political theories as to why this is the case.
My understanding is that bin laden was radicalised against the US when American troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia during the first gulf war. He and many others like him reacted angrily against the US army for things like having women serving, chewing gum and generally being massively out of place with the pseudo-medieval saudi society.
This was pure intolerance and hatred on the part of these terrorists and any attempt to say otherwise is a disgrace.
I await the standard response ranting about oil/Israel.
I agree with you most of the way, would love to hear some of Gooner Sid's ruminations on the world in general -- however, while I'd say the Western world is categorically more 'advanced', the Arabs I know are generally reasonable types, not sort of medieval bigoted twats. A few exceptions but the same goes for Americans/Brits.
Think it is more ranting imam sorts who whip up people into a frenzy. Imagine if America was 80% Religious Right or Southern Baptist.
Im talking about Saudi society (not your average western muslim), which wouldnt have looked out of place in 18th/19th century Europe. There was a definite clash of values as American activity in these regions increased during the cold war. The point im trying to make is that disapproving of western values does not justify mass murder of American citizens anymore then i would be justified in butchering thousands of saudi citizens.
goonersid wrote:I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of that bastard race country. 9/11 whilst a tragedy, was somewhat self-inflicted, the us is the worlds biggest terrorist aided and abetted by their uk sidekick.
And the "murder"of bin laden will reap a similar atrocity.
Fuck the yanks and their big fucking mouths.
PS I'm still a bit drink from last night, but I do hate fucking yanks.
9/11 self inflicted? Enlighten me with your geo-political theories as to why this is the case.
My understanding is that bin laden was radicalised against the US when American troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia during the first gulf war. He and many others like him reacted angrily against the US army for things like having women serving, chewing gum and generally being massively out of place with the pseudo-medieval saudi society.
This was pure intolerance and hatred on the part of these terrorists and any attempt to say otherwise is a disgrace.
I await the standard response ranting about oil/Israel.
I agree with you most of the way, would love to hear some of Gooner Sid's ruminations on the world in general -- however, while I'd say the Western world is categorically more 'advanced', the Arabs I know are generally reasonable types, not sort of medieval bigoted twats. A few exceptions but the same goes for Americans/Brits.
Think it is more ranting imam sorts who whip up people into a frenzy. Imagine if America was 80% Religious Right or Southern Baptist.
Im talking about Saudi society (not your average western muslim), which wouldnt have looked out of place in 18th/19th century Europe. There was a definite clash of values as American activity in these regions increased during the cold war. The point im trying to make is that disapproving of western values does not justify mass murder of American citizens anymore then i would be justified in butchering thousands of saudi citizens.
arseofacrow wrote:A conspiracy thread dressesd up as sympathy?
Nice.
Perfectly put.
The conspiracy theorists are pathetic. Nos89, in answer to your question of "where is the evidence of the the 757 jet hitting the pentagon", try looking at the film footage with the wreckage of the aircraft clearly on show - it was clear to see this week on various TV programmes commemorating the incident. Listen to the eye witness reports from members of the public who described the America Airlines plane that hit the building. As for the bodies from Flight 93, what are you suggesting? That there was no one on the aircraft and therefore that the original flight was somehow diverted by the American authorities and all the passengers killed - all as part of the conspiracy? Seriously if you believe that you need help. All the conspiracies have been completely debunked. The act was committed by Islamic fundamentalists who hate the West, who hate democracy and who want to see our way of life destroyed. Either we stand with the American’s on our response to this, or we fall.
I've watched all the documentries this week on national geographic and discovery. There were no interviews of witnesses at the pentagon saying they saw a 757 passenger jet liner. There was debris from a plane found on the road by the pentagon, that someone said quite clearly statedat least three times that "it is not from a commercial airplane" because of the way it was riveted, then handed the piece of debris to a policeman. There is no evidence of the plane's tail fin, or wings. All the footage involving the pentagon is CGI, except the one which shows the impact on the pentagon, which is edited from security camera footage that is widely available on the internet, and guess what the bit that is edited out shows a silver streak but no 757. Also, with the pentagon wouldn't you expect CCTV would cover the area more proundfoundly? Why haven't they captured the plane approaching?
United 93 I'm suggesting it was shot down by US govt. In the interview with bush he said he gave the order for hijacked planes to be brought down, after he heard United 93 had gone down. Also, Rumsfeld admitted it had been brought down in a live interview on the day.
Have all the conspiracy theories have been completly debunked? Seriously, if you believe that then maybe you should be ahead of me in the queue of people that need help!
northbankbren wrote:Shit SWL. Clearly a lot closer to home for you. Hope your uncle was ok?
I always find some of the conspiracys so uneducated and uninformed.
The BBC have actually done a couple of really good docs in the last couple of weeks, that make some of the consiracy theories look pathetic.
Amazing that most of these theories come from people who havent even spoke to anyone at the scenes.
Cheers for the concern mate. Depends what you mean, he is physically now fine, just relatively minor injuries, but mentally not really at all.
I agree that there was a cover up, but there are always people who use that as an excuse to feed on their racism and blame it on the US Government, who to be fair were bungling fools at the best of times, but to accuse them of inside job is just disgraceful
SWL Gooner I apologise if you find what I wrote as offensive. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the emergency services of New York and New Jersey, who worked trielessly to help survivors and searched for any remains of those that perished.
So, can you tell what you think was covered up and by whom?
Why don't you tell us what was covered up and by whom as you seem to be the expert on the subject.
I'm not an expert on the subject. I've just watched the documentries on tv and the footage on you tube and other 9/11 websites and drawn my own conclusion. I haven't watched that conspiracy theory road trip programme on BBC. I wouldn't mock anyone who was there or lost a relative. Certain things just don't add up and lot of people lost their lives as a result US government negligence, allowing the terrorists the window of opportunity. If the government admitted they had made mistakes and the people who made them have been held accountable then surely that's democracy working at its best. As it stands there was not even a criminal investigation into what happened at either the WTC or the Pentagon. The sympathy towards those who are suffering because of the events of that day becomes greater.
Of the 2,977 people killed in the September 11 attacks, 411 were emergency workers in New York City who responded to the World Trade Center. This included:
341 firefighters and 2 paramedics from the New York City Fire Department (FDNY);[1]
37 police officers from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department (PAPD);[2]
23 police officers from the New York City Police Department (NYPD);[3] and
8 emergency medical technicians and paramedics from private emergency medical services.[4][5]
RIP to all those above and ultimate respect to those brave souls who perished while trying to save others.
Not gonna get into any argument or debate about it, suffice to say that Religion has been the cause of too many deaths since time began - what God would declare killing others is the way to behave just because they have a difference of opinion?
Religion is for people who have no self belief.
I'm sorry. I let this go for a while but I just can't condone this.
To so many moderate religious people - of which I should probably say I am not a part of - this is grossly offensive and with absolutely no evidence or backing.
arseofacrow wrote:A conspiracy thread dressesd up as sympathy?
Nice.
Perfectly put.
The conspiracy theorists are pathetic. Nos89, in answer to your question of "where is the evidence of the the 757 jet hitting the pentagon", try looking at the film footage with the wreckage of the aircraft clearly on show - it was clear to see this week on various TV programmes commemorating the incident. Listen to the eye witness reports from members of the public who described the America Airlines plane that hit the building. As for the bodies from Flight 93, what are you suggesting? That there was no one on the aircraft and therefore that the original flight was somehow diverted by the American authorities and all the passengers killed - all as part of the conspiracy? Seriously if you believe that you need help. All the conspiracies have been completely debunked. The act was committed by Islamic fundamentalists who hate the West, who hate democracy and who want to see our way of life destroyed. Either we stand with the American’s on our response to this, or we fall.
I've watched all the documentries this week on national geographic and discovery. There were no interviews of witnesses at the pentagon saying they saw a 757 passenger jet liner. There was debris from a plane found on the road by the pentagon, that someone said quite clearly statedat least three times that "it is not from a commercial airplane" because of the way it was riveted, then handed the piece of debris to a policeman. There is no evidence of the plane's tail fin, or wings. All the footage involving the pentagon is CGI, except the one which shows the impact on the pentagon, which is edited from security camera footage that is widely available on the internet, and guess what the bit that is edited out shows a silver streak but no 757. Also, with the pentagon wouldn't you expect CCTV would cover the area more proundfoundly? Why haven't they captured the plane approaching?
United 93 I'm suggesting it was shot down by US govt. In the interview with bush he said he gave the order for hijacked planes to be brought down, after he heard United 93 had gone down. Also, Rumsfeld admitted it had been brought down in a live interview on the day.
Have all the conspiracy theories have been completly debunked? Seriously, if you believe that then maybe you should be ahead of me in the queue of people that need help!
You obviously did not see them all as there was footage of eyewitnesses referring to an American airlines aircraft that hit the Pentagon on the BBC. I would seek out the programme and send you a link but you would only claim it was a CIA plant. And how do you explain the images on the link that LDB showed?
So the American Government / Security Services were responsible for doing all this, is that what you are seriously suggesting? They colluded to kill thousands of innocent people? How many people do you think would have been involved in such a plan? You probably think the Twins Towers were brought down by detonators, yet no one saw people coming and going from the buildings for all those weeks as they were planting the explosives. And of all the hundreds of people involved with this giant plan to fool the world, not one has ever broken ranks to speak about it – before or after (this in a country where it is virtually impossible to keep anything quite). People who believe this nonsense are delusional, living in a conspiracy world of their own making. The thing with conspiracy theorists like you is that you never have to prove anything, you can just throw ridiculous, unfounded allegations about.
As for the Rumsfeld comment, you really should not base your arguments on 20 second Youtube clips uploaded by conspiracy lunatics – if you actually listen to what he said in that press conference he is talking about TERRORISTS bringing down the plane (a slip of the tongue by saying that it was shot down) – not that the US air force did so as you argue. But keep clutching at those straws.
And to answer your question, “have all the conspiracy theories been debunked?â€
A problem is that there have been "false flag" operations used by governments in the past, notoriously the supposedly Communist Insurgent "Zinoviev letter" of 1924, the "Gleiwitz attack" staged Polish attack on a German border post of 31 August 1939, and the "Operation Northwoods" plan to bomb American cities in 1962 in order to implicate the Cubans (thankfully never carried out).
Some conspiracy theorists then go on to label almost everything as a "Conspiracy".
I do not think that the 911 attacks were staged by the Americans, I think they were genuine examples of Jihadist terrorism.
But might some rogue elements of the US Security forces have known in advance about them and let them happen to attempt to garner support for military action and stronger security laws?
Possibly.
Only a closed minded person could completely rule out that eventuality.
As for StuartL's comment on religion, I do not find it offensive, but I do disagree with it.
Followers of religion certainly seek support and moral guidelines from their faith, but they honestly believe in the truth of spiritual events and the lives of Prophets and sages as real occurrences to inspire and guide them.
slag wrote:in 20 years it will come out that the plane that crashed in the woods was shot down, no way did the passengers do that, why would they?
Maybe because they had backbone? Not saying the others didn't but they stood up and were counted when it really mattered. Don't wanna talk about this any more but I would rather remember the sheer heroism, no other word for it, of those on United 93 and those in the emergency services who made the ultimate sacrifice, and those who didn't to be fair.
thats rubbish, they would not sacrifice there life if there is a 0.01% chance of survival...cant believe they would have known about what had already happened seeing as phones dont work in the sky.
slag wrote:in 20 years it will come out that the plane that crashed in the woods was shot down, no way did the passengers do that, why would they?
Maybe because they had backbone? Not saying the others didn't but they stood up and were counted when it really mattered. Don't wanna talk about this any more but I would rather remember the sheer heroism, no other word for it, of those on United 93 and those in the emergency services who made the ultimate sacrifice, and those who didn't to be fair.
thats rubbish, they would not sacrifice there life if there is a 0.01% chance of survival...cant believe they would have known about what had already happened seeing as phones dont work in the sky.
Is it not possible that in the struggle that would have ensued upon trying to retake the plane, control was lost and it crashed?
And plane phones do work in the sky, thats the whole point of them. More nonsense from the looney brigade.
slag wrote:in 20 years it will come out that the plane that crashed in the woods was shot down, no way did the passengers do that, why would they?
Maybe because they had backbone? Not saying the others didn't but they stood up and were counted when it really mattered. Don't wanna talk about this any more but I would rather remember the sheer heroism, no other word for it, of those on United 93 and those in the emergency services who made the ultimate sacrifice, and those who didn't to be fair.
thats rubbish, they would not sacrifice there life if there is a 0.01% chance of survival...cant believe they would have known about what had already happened seeing as phones dont work in the sky.
Is it not possible that in the struggle that would have ensued upon trying to retake the plane, control was lost and it crashed?
And plane phones do work in the sky, thats the whole point of them. More nonsense from the looney brigade.
It does seem a little strange that the passengers on flight 93 seemed to communicate via telephone with their loved ones on the ground with ease yet President Bush, travelling on Airforce One, one of the most highly sophisticated and kitted out planes ever to take to the skies, was uncontactable whilst in the air.
slag wrote:in 20 years it will come out that the plane that crashed in the woods was shot down, no way did the passengers do that, why would they?
Maybe because they had backbone? Not saying the others didn't but they stood up and were counted when it really mattered. Don't wanna talk about this any more but I would rather remember the sheer heroism, no other word for it, of those on United 93 and those in the emergency services who made the ultimate sacrifice, and those who didn't to be fair.
thats rubbish, they would not sacrifice there life if there is a 0.01% chance of survival...cant believe they would have known about what had already happened seeing as phones dont work in the sky.
Is it not possible that in the struggle that would have ensued upon trying to retake the plane, control was lost and it crashed?
And plane phones do work in the sky, thats the whole point of them. More nonsense from the looney brigade.
It does seem a little strange that the passengers on flight 93 seemed to communicate via telephone with their loved ones on the ground with ease yet President Bush, travelling on Airforce One, one of the most highly sophisticated and kitted out planes ever to take to the skies, was uncontactable whilst in the air.
No he wasn’t "uncontactable", simply incorrect. On occasions calls were lost but he was able to make contact with the ground. Condoleezza Rice even talks about how their conversation ended with her putting the phone down on him over the disagreement about whether he should return to Washington or not. He also spoke to his wife (again documented). But I suppose your answer to that will be “well they would say that wouldn’t they – it’s all part of the cover upâ€
SWLGooner wrote:
Maybe because they had backbone? Not saying the others didn't but they stood up and were counted when it really mattered. Don't wanna talk about this any more but I would rather remember the sheer heroism, no other word for it, of those on United 93 and those in the emergency services who made the ultimate sacrifice, and those who didn't to be fair.
thats rubbish, they would not sacrifice there life if there is a 0.01% chance of survival...cant believe they would have known about what had already happened seeing as phones dont work in the sky.
Is it not possible that in the struggle that would have ensued upon trying to retake the plane, control was lost and it crashed?
And plane phones do work in the sky, thats the whole point of them. More nonsense from the looney brigade.
It does seem a little strange that the passengers on flight 93 seemed to communicate via telephone with their loved ones on the ground with ease yet President Bush, travelling on Airforce One, one of the most highly sophisticated and kitted out planes ever to take to the skies, was uncontactable whilst in the air.
No he wasn’t "uncontactable", simply incorrect. On occasions calls were lost but he was able to make contact with the ground. Condoleezza Rice even talks about how their conversation ended with her putting the phone down on him over the disagreement about whether he should return to Washington or not. He also spoke to his wife (again documented). But I suppose your answer to that will be “well they would say that wouldn’t they – it’s all part of the cover upâ€
arseofacrow wrote:A conspiracy thread dressesd up as sympathy?
Nice.
Perfectly put.
The conspiracy theorists are pathetic. Nos89, in answer to your question of "where is the evidence of the the 757 jet hitting the pentagon", try looking at the film footage with the wreckage of the aircraft clearly on show - it was clear to see this week on various TV programmes commemorating the incident. Listen to the eye witness reports from members of the public who described the America Airlines plane that hit the building. As for the bodies from Flight 93, what are you suggesting? That there was no one on the aircraft and therefore that the original flight was somehow diverted by the American authorities and all the passengers killed - all as part of the conspiracy? Seriously if you believe that you need help. All the conspiracies have been completely debunked. The act was committed by Islamic fundamentalists who hate the West, who hate democracy and who want to see our way of life destroyed. Either we stand with the American’s on our response to this, or we fall.
I've watched all the documentries this week on national geographic and discovery. There were no interviews of witnesses at the pentagon saying they saw a 757 passenger jet liner. There was debris from a plane found on the road by the pentagon, that someone said quite clearly statedat least three times that "it is not from a commercial airplane" because of the way it was riveted, then handed the piece of debris to a policeman. There is no evidence of the plane's tail fin, or wings. All the footage involving the pentagon is CGI, except the one which shows the impact on the pentagon, which is edited from security camera footage that is widely available on the internet, and guess what the bit that is edited out shows a silver streak but no 757. Also, with the pentagon wouldn't you expect CCTV would cover the area more proundfoundly? Why haven't they captured the plane approaching?
United 93 I'm suggesting it was shot down by US govt. In the interview with bush he said he gave the order for hijacked planes to be brought down, after he heard United 93 had gone down. Also, Rumsfeld admitted it had been brought down in a live interview on the day.
Have all the conspiracy theories have been completly debunked? Seriously, if you believe that then maybe you should be ahead of me in the queue of people that need help!
You obviously did not see them all as there was footage of eyewitnesses referring to an American airlines aircraft that hit the Pentagon on the BBC. I would seek out the programme and send you a link but you would only claim it was a CIA plant. And how do you explain the images on the link that LDB showed?
So the American Government / Security Services were responsible for doing all this, is that what you are seriously suggesting? They colluded to kill thousands of innocent people? How many people do you think would have been involved in such a plan? You probably think the Twins Towers were brought down by detonators, yet no one saw people coming and going from the buildings for all those weeks as they were planting the explosives. And of all the hundreds of people involved with this giant plan to fool the world, not one has ever broken ranks to speak about it – before or after (this in a country where it is virtually impossible to keep anything quite). People who believe this nonsense are delusional, living in a conspiracy world of their own making. The thing with conspiracy theorists like you is that you never have to prove anything, you can just throw ridiculous, unfounded allegations about.
As for the Rumsfeld comment, you really should not base your arguments on 20 second Youtube clips uploaded by conspiracy lunatics – if you actually listen to what he said in that press conference he is talking about TERRORISTS bringing down the plane (a slip of the tongue by saying that it was shot down) – not that the US air force did so as you argue. But keep clutching at those straws.
And to answer your question, “have all the conspiracy theories been debunked?â€
arseofacrow wrote:A conspiracy thread dressesd up as sympathy?
Nice.
Perfectly put.
The conspiracy theorists are pathetic. Nos89, in answer to your question of "where is the evidence of the the 757 jet hitting the pentagon", try looking at the film footage with the wreckage of the aircraft clearly on show - it was clear to see this week on various TV programmes commemorating the incident. Listen to the eye witness reports from members of the public who described the America Airlines plane that hit the building. As for the bodies from Flight 93, what are you suggesting? That there was no one on the aircraft and therefore that the original flight was somehow diverted by the American authorities and all the passengers killed - all as part of the conspiracy? Seriously if you believe that you need help. All the conspiracies have been completely debunked. The act was committed by Islamic fundamentalists who hate the West, who hate democracy and who want to see our way of life destroyed. Either we stand with the American’s on our response to this, or we fall.
I've watched all the documentries this week on national geographic and discovery. There were no interviews of witnesses at the pentagon saying they saw a 757 passenger jet liner. There was debris from a plane found on the road by the pentagon, that someone said quite clearly statedat least three times that "it is not from a commercial airplane" because of the way it was riveted, then handed the piece of debris to a policeman. There is no evidence of the plane's tail fin, or wings. All the footage involving the pentagon is CGI, except the one which shows the impact on the pentagon, which is edited from security camera footage that is widely available on the internet, and guess what the bit that is edited out shows a silver streak but no 757. Also, with the pentagon wouldn't you expect CCTV would cover the area more proundfoundly? Why haven't they captured the plane approaching?
United 93 I'm suggesting it was shot down by US govt. In the interview with bush he said he gave the order for hijacked planes to be brought down, after he heard United 93 had gone down. Also, Rumsfeld admitted it had been brought down in a live interview on the day.
Have all the conspiracy theories have been completly debunked? Seriously, if you believe that then maybe you should be ahead of me in the queue of people that need help!
You obviously did not see them all as there was footage of eyewitnesses referring to an American airlines aircraft that hit the Pentagon on the BBC. I would seek out the programme and send you a link but you would only claim it was a CIA plant. And how do you explain the images on the link that LDB showed?
So the American Government / Security Services were responsible for doing all this, is that what you are seriously suggesting? They colluded to kill thousands of innocent people? How many people do you think would have been involved in such a plan? You probably think the Twins Towers were brought down by detonators, yet no one saw people coming and going from the buildings for all those weeks as they were planting the explosives. And of all the hundreds of people involved with this giant plan to fool the world, not one has ever broken ranks to speak about it – before or after (this in a country where it is virtually impossible to keep anything quite). People who believe this nonsense are delusional, living in a conspiracy world of their own making. The thing with conspiracy theorists like you is that you never have to prove anything, you can just throw ridiculous, unfounded allegations about.
As for the Rumsfeld comment, you really should not base your arguments on 20 second Youtube clips uploaded by conspiracy lunatics – if you actually listen to what he said in that press conference he is talking about TERRORISTS bringing down the plane (a slip of the tongue by saying that it was shot down) – not that the US air force did so as you argue. But keep clutching at those straws.
And to answer your question, “have all the conspiracy theories been debunked?â€
