Arsene Wenger and Youth: IS IT WORKING?

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:01 pm

Guys - football may have changed beyond measure. But one thing that never changes is that in any game its 11 versus 11, so when you look at the top class international matches those players were developed by somebody.

England's goalkeeper was developed by Shrewsbury Town and furthered by Manchester City. Until possibly now when was the last time we did that with a keeper

Phil Jones was developed by Blackburn Rovers and sold for Â£16-Â£18m immediately. Not in five years, not as part of sell-on clause.

And whilst you might not like them as players necessarily Ashley Young (Watford), Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough), Scott Parker (Charlton Athletic). All players grown by provinicial clubs with minimal resources and all sold for immediate enormous profits

Jack Rodwell, another Everton top-class prospect to sit alongside Rooney and the other 17 year old kid they are bringing through that is supposedly Sir Red Nose's next Â£20m+ target.

We simply should be doing much much better. We are forever promoting our wonderful system of developing youth talent. If we are pointing to the likes of Jay Bothroyd winning a single cap, 10 years after he left I would dare to suggest that is not good enough.

highburyJD · Post by **highburyJD** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:15 pm

to be fair Wilshere is better than every single player you mention in that post

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:32 pm

highburyJD wrote:to be fair Wilshere is better than every single player you mention in that post

I don't disagree with that, although comparing players from different positions is not really that easy. But yes I agree, I would rather have him than any of those guys.

But he probably wouldn't fetch any more than Gareth Bale on the European market; a player developed by Southampton.

We all know Jack is the exception to the rule. Before that it was Cashley a player we sold for Gallas + Â£5m thinking that was a good deal....and all over Â£5k per week on a contract.

Everyone of the top clubs in World football and every international team has to play with at least one striker, sometimes two. How many from that pool of players have been developed by Arsenal? For me, that is the most shocking statistic of the lot. Seriously JD who was the last top international class striker that we produced? Surely one in a decade wouldn't be too much to ask///

kiwomya · Post by **kiwomya** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:36 pm

So are we just talking about English players here?

highburyJD · Post by **highburyJD** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:44 pm

guess the last top striker our youth team produced was Andy Cole...

SpanishJoe · Post by **SpanishJoe** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:47 pm

Your list of players that have come through consists of one per club (and are spread out over quite a few years) and if you look around the leagues you may see a club that's developed two in a short period of time.

So for me, your evidence seems to highlight how difficult it is for any club to develop a lot of top quality young players. Occasionally a small group may emerge ( Man U, Barca etc) but rarely. It is clearly a very inexact science and I can understand why some clubs ditched their youth academies.

kiwomya · Post by **kiwomya** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:55 pm

highburyJD wrote:guess the last top striker our youth team produced was Andy Cole...

It depends how highly you rate Bendtner, I guess.

Post by **brazilianGOONER** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:01 pm

highburyJD wrote:guess the last top striker our youth team produced was Andy Cole...

fucking hell, you're actually right!

hadn't thought of that before...

Post by **brazilianGOONER** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:04 pm

btw, can anyone explain to an ignorant brazilian why the hell west ham always develops great players, specially considering the size of the club?

i mean, if it's the scouting, ffs we are in the same city and we're a much larger club, so where the hell do they get their players from, and why the hell can't we manage to do the same?

highburyJD · Post by **highburyJD** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:05 pm

I remember thinking various players: Isiah Rankin, Carlin Itonga, Jay Simpson, Rhys Murphy might do it
was surprised we gave Sanchez Watt a new contract despite his excellent recent record in the stiffs

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:24 pm

kiwomya wrote:So are we just talking about English players here?

Not at all. If you want to point out examples of any top class strikers we've produced in the past 10 years from any country, and I don't mean Nicklas Bendtner.

Tske the two main strikers from any top four team from the main divisions across the world, and/or the two main strikers in the top 20 national teams and tell me how many were produced by Arsenal.

I couldn't give a monkeys if they come from Ing-er-lund, although as an English club operating from its capital city it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume we could find a top class, English striker once in a while.

Who were the massive clubs that developed Torres, Shevchenko, Drogba, David Villa, Rooney, Suarez....and how much did they spend on youth academies and global scouting networks compared to us?

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:27 pm

brazilianGOONER wrote:btw, can anyone explain to an ignorant brazilian why the hell west ham always develops great players, specially considering the size of the club?

i mean, if it's the scouting, ffs we are in the same city and we're a much larger club, so where the hell do they get their players from, and why the hell can't we manage to do the same?

Exactly the point.

Babatunde · Post by **Babatunde** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:43 pm

brazilianGOONER wrote:btw, can anyone explain to an ignorant brazilian why the hell west ham always develops great players, specially considering the size of the club?

i mean, if it's the scouting, ffs we are in the same city and we're a much larger club, so where the hell do they get their players from, and why the hell can't we manage to do the same?

To be fair - and not sticking up for Wenger here - when it comes to scouting local talents, there is a rule in English football that's to do with catchment areas, a bit like getting your kids to a certain school. So West Ham, within that area, have access to certain English players Arsenal/Spuds don't have access to.

However, that still does not excuse the shocking young foreign players we've wasted squillions on developing. SteveO is right imo...

highburyJD · Post by **highburyJD** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:24 pm

the youth development has been disapointing
I dont think we have by any means wasted 'squillions'
especially when you consider the significant fees we got for average players mentioned on this thread, Crowe and Rankin in particular, who dont make it at the Arsenal

just the profit on Anelka alone has probably covered most youth investment ffs