Return of the arrogant moron - Chesney

[Swale_Gooner1985]

so there I am last night on the tube going to the game.
I picked up the Standard and there was our great goalie boasting about how we would challenge for the title next season.
thought then he was getting a bit cocky.

I was sat in the clock end and Chesney gets a standing ovation just before kick off as he runs back to his line.

7 minutes gone and the disaster waiting to happen - Confusion with the defence and Chesney tries to kick a ball - oh dear, as we all know that he can't. somehow he manages to kick it BACKWARDS to a Wigan player -1-0

1 minute later a breakaway and Wigan cross a ball in - nice easy catch for the Pole, but oh no he fumbles it and they score 2-0 GAME OVER

I was coming round to him after some decent displays, gave him the benefit of doubt against QPR but last night he was a joke. you can't blame Wenger for those 2 goals, he is not paid to catch balls.
so that is 3rd place gone - was on here yesterday trying to shut people up for laughing at Spurs. luckily we will face a tired Chelsea team, but that is now a must win. Tough times ahead..

Why exactly is third place gone? We are 5 points clear of the teams in fourth and fifth! think you are going well over the top!

[flash gunner]

so there I am last night on the tube going to the game.
I picked up the Standard and there was our great goalie boasting about how we would challenge for the title next season.
thought then he was getting a bit cocky.

I was sat in the clock end and Chesney gets a standing ovation just before kick off as he runs back to his line.

7 minutes gone and the disaster waiting to happen - Confusion with the defence and Chesney tries to kick a ball - oh dear, as we all know that he can't. somehow he manages to kick it BACKWARDS to a Wigan player -1-0

1 minute later a breakaway and Wigan cross a ball in - nice easy catch for the Pole, but oh no he fumbles it and they score 2-0 GAME OVER

I was coming round to him after some decent displays, gave him the benefit of doubt against QPR but last night he was a joke. you can't blame Wenger for those 2 goals, he is not paid to catch balls.
so that is 3rd place gone - was on here yesterday trying to shut people up for laughing at Spurs. luckily we will face a tired Chelsea team, but that is now a must win. Tough times ahead..

Why exactly is third place gone? We are 5 points clear of the teams in fourth and fifth! think you are going well over the top!

Swale red member is a wind up merchant if we beat chelsea saturday and sp*rs also lose and we go 8 points clear he'll be on here telling us he never doubted 3rd all season, lets face it this is the bloke who told us he got pissed at half time on a champions league night

[SteveO 35]

And in case you missed it Swale........Red's vote for Manager of the Year is Kenny Dalglish, he thinks Denilson should return as 'first choice' in midfield and that getting beat 8-2 is irrelevant

[augie]

For once I don’t see this as wengers fault. Though he does allow them to get away with giving weak performances

I didn’t go the game Monday so for the first time this season I had the chance to watch the match live on tv and study the game.

The players have to be accountable for not putting in a shift and this is arrogance and the inability to give effort for all games. Why oh why cant the players treat every game as though they are playing Citeh or Spuds 2nd half.

Granted its more draining playing that way every game, but we have no CL or cup games and have maximum time before each game. Also we have just a few games left so there is no excuse for QPR and Wigan losses!

Half the the team didn’t care much Monday and watching Song come on in the 2nd half he looked like a sulky child. JD tried talking to him, obviously to fire him up and he didn’t look bothered at all.

Wenger needs to kick this habit out the players or we will end up 5th!

good comments.
someone has actually not blamed the manager for once. this forum is improving

Don’t get it twisted. Im saying Wenger has done a great job reaching us back to 3rd spot. The failure at QPR and Wigan is down to the certain players not giving respect to smaller teams.

However the downfall from Feb 2011 – 18th Feb 2012 was all Wengers fault. The summer from hell was a disgrace and the relegation form that followed the CC was also a disgrace. Terrible.


Since 26th Feb 5.2 we have been like a new team , the fans back onside and the grove is becoming Home. Something changed and it all clicked. Its obvious the squad can do better things but the arrogance is the downfall now, not wenger under this period. He can only do so much in this time and if the players come out expecting a win then its down to them.

Honest thoughts are this period wont continue next season. I give him credit since the spud game but he will throw it all away guaranteed.

No doubt we will suffer a summer from hell, players wanting big contracts. Shits players being promoted and average players being signed again.

Mikey, I am seriously getting worried about your state of mind recently given your love in with all things wenger
Anyway while I dont disagree with your slating of the players and their arrogance, why is wenger's role in this ignored ? These are his players so shouldnt he be able to motivate them instead of depending on a reserve centre back to do his job ? A manager can be excused of failing to notice lax attitude in his players once but how many fcuking times has it happened with these players ? Motivation and tactics are fundemental ingrediants in the role of good managers and wenger is shite at both

Have to say though that I cannot for the life of me understand how much credit you are giving to wenger for the recent upturn in results Right now we are in a battle to remain in the top 4 and much of this is down to wenger's refusal to spend and as a result he has flogged the most fragile centre forward in the game to the point that he has nothing left to give the team Our recent upturn would have meant f**k all if it hadnt of coincided with the absolute meltdown of our "friends" from the swamp and the in-house fighting and rebellion in chav city so I find this praise for wenger from people to be comical and astounding and the bottom line is that if we finish outside the much coveted top 4 then wenger must carry the can for that failure

[SteveO 35]

Augie - a manager can't be blamed for all the bad results and then overlooked for all of the good ones mate.....but what does a sequence of results over a few weeks really mean anyway. Sweet FA as far as I'm concerned. If you took a snapshot of the last six games form at any point in the season probably half of the division half topped that table at some point, and virtually all of the top clubs have been in the bottom six at some point. It means nothing - a season is 50+ games if you're a successful club and that's how it should always be judged

Personally, I don't know why people don't just look at the simple facts and judge the guy over a period of time - say 7 years for example - and then the conclusion is surely overwhelmingly against him.

This season we've gone from the "Wenger must go because we lost 8-2" to "Wenger must stay because we've won 7 games in a row". Neither of those arguments work for me; its simply Wenger must go because he has allowed the standard of our squad, results and performances to drop consistently over a 6 to 7 year time frame. In no other walk of life would someone consistently be allowed to do a worsening job over that timeframe. Look at the line-up that took to the field in the Champions League final of 2006 and then compare it to the team that will take to the field this weekend and the bare facts are laid out in front of you. Have we got a left back anywhere near the standard of Cole, a CB as good as Campbell, midfielders capable of 15 goals per season a la Pires and Ljungberg, a responsible world class holding midfielder like Gilberto, and three substitute strikers - Bergkamp, Reyes and Van Persie - supporting an already world class forward in Henry. Wenger has overseen that whole period of total decline since that day. Just print out the 2 team sheets from May 2006 and April 2012, go through the 18 players and ask yourself whether this is a manager you feel has led Arsenal forward in that time? And before anyone bleats on about resources the additional revenue we've generated since then has been matched by annual interest payments out, so in reality he is no better or worse off.

No doubt if we beat Chelsea, Red Member and selected others will be on here saying how well Wenger has done, and Baba and others will be equally vocal if we lose 0-3. The facts for me will be the same - we're still as far away (if not further away) from winning major trophies than we were when we left Highbury. To my mind we have been net losers (quality not money) in every transfer window since Patrick Vieira left the club - again that is a consistent trend over 7 years - and it culminated in the most damaging and negligent transfer window of the lot last Summer, amplified by the lack of activity in January. Where we once signed Wiltord, Reyes and Kanu as back-up strikers we now sign Chamakh and Park

I am happy for him to take praise when we win and take shit when we lose. We can finish anywhere between 3rd and 6th this season and my views won't change.

Its the same when people talk about who should replace him and they cite people like Roberto Martinez - why? Because in the last month he has done well? Look at the long term - when Paul Jewell was manager he got them a top half finish then left them struggling to stay up. How has Martinez improved that - he hasn't. Then look at someone like Moyes, Lambert or Rodgers who have consistently improved their teams fortunes over the past 'x' years.

If we finish 3rd then it won't be the cause for celebration - it would only be if it was used as a springboard to compete for the top two prizes next year by adding to the squad with genuine top class talent. But that never happens and it won't again this Summer.

If Arsenal ever want to compete for major prizes again then Wenger has to go - whether he wins the next four games or loses the lot

[Chippy]

Excellent post SteveO

[highburyJD]

ARSENAL:
GK 1 Jens Lehmann 18'
RB 27 Emmanuel Eboué 22'
CB 28 Kolo Touré
CB 23 Sol Campbell
LB 3 Ashley Cole
RM 7 Robert Pirès 18'
CM 19 Gilberto Silva
CM 15 Cesc Fàbregas 74'
LM 13 Alexander Hleb 85'
SS 8 Fredrik Ljungberg
CF 14 Thierry Henry (c) 51'
Substitutes:
GK 24 Manuel Almunia 18'
DF 20 Philippe Senderos
DF 22 Gaël Clichy
MF 16 Mathieu Flamini 74'
FW 9 José Antonio Reyes 85'
FW 10 Dennis Bergkamp
FW 11 Robin van Persie
Manager:
Arsène Wenger

That's a very good squad - I think
1- Szcz is better than 2006 Mad Jens 1-0
2- Sagna better than Eboue 2-0
3- Cole>Clichy>Santos>Gibb 2-1
5- Kos>Kolo 3-1 by then Kolo was already fading
6- Sol>Verm 3-2
4- Gilberto>Song at pure defence but Song more creative 3-3
8- Cesc>Rosicky 3-4
10- Arteta> Ljungberg (this is '06 post hip injury slow, low stamina Ljungberg) 4-4
11- Hleb>Ox, Hleb was brilliant then - but looking at how he dipped after you wouldn't swap Ox for him 4-5
7- Pires>Walcott, I thought we shouldn't let him go (but he did get injured straight after we did) 4-6
9 RVP=Henry Titi was awesome that year but just beginning to decline, his last great season. This is RVP's best ever. 4-6

So that's a first 11 decline but still tight - could be 5-5 if you go the other way with Ox v Hleb
subs
Flappy=Almunia 4-6
Mertesacker>Senderos 5-6
as said we are very weak at LB Clichy> any 5-7
Wilshere>Flamini 6-7
Then in the attacking positions we fall way behind
Reyes>Gervinho 6-8
Bergkamp>Chamakh 6-9
Van Persie>Park 6-10

So keep the players we have now, sign Podolski, bring in Ryo and get another forward and the squads can be pretty tight...

[SteveO 35]

So Highbury JD, even with your very generous, glass half full marking system, you admit that the squad has declined over a 6 year period under the same manager.

Your final point my friend highlights exactly what could be said every season since then i.e. "if we held on to our best players and added another CF/CB/CDM/GK etc etc".......its the fact that that hasn't happened consistently that means our first 18 is weaker than six years ago !!

Since that day in Paris, I think our best first 18 was the side of 2007-08 but again it was a case if we held on to our best players and built upon it we wouldn't be far off - that was 4 years ago. The two central midfielders - Fabregas and Flamini - have gone, along with Diarra and Gilberto. So we started all over again and here we are once more.......if we keep RvP, if Wilshere returns, if we add a striker.

If we made our assessment of progress based upon 'nearly' or 'virtual' signings then Spurs would have been champions the season after they nearly signed Zidane and Shevchenko

Whichever way you analyse it, Wenger has overseen a consistent period of weakening the squad, and why some six years after that CL final, does anyone think this Summer will see him buck the trend ?

[highburyJD]

So Highbury JD, even with your very generous, glass half full marking system, you admit that the squad has declined over a 6 year period under the same manager.

I thought it was pretty fair... reckon some on here might mark down Hleb
that said '06 is Grove year 1 - we've paid loads of debt down
I wish we'd kept Gilberto and Pires and think we could have
apart from them Kolo, Hleb, Henry we got very good money for
Ljungberg, Eboue, Reyes at least market rate

we're just weak up front at the moment - possibly because Wenger really rates Campbell, Afobe and Ryo or even Podoloski

[SteveO 35]

So Highbury JD, even with your very generous, glass half full marking system, you admit that the squad has declined over a 6 year period under the same manager.

I thought it was pretty fair... reckon some on here might mark down Hleb
that said '06 is Grove year 1 - we've paid loads of debt down
I wish we'd kept Gilberto and Pires and think we could have
apart from them Kolo, Hleb, Henry we got very good money for
Ljungberg, Eboue, Reyes at least market rate

we're just weak up front at the moment - possibly because Wenger really rates Campbell, Afobe and Ryo or even Podoloski

I admit that some of those players were in decline but overall the depth of the squad was the standout factor, which I think you agree in terms of the forwards at least.

Not gambling on signing another striker wasn't a masterstroke - we all know that a Huth, Clint Hill, Barton type of player could crock RvP at any time - but fortunately it hasn't happened. Can you imagine if it had in the first week of February? Would we have stolen the points at Anfield, scored the cracking equaliser against the Spuds and Newcastle etc if that had been Park or Chamakh. I simply can't understand how he could have taken that gamble. Even now, with RvP not injured but knackered our lack of options for the last 20 minutes of a game are glaringly obvious.

We let two top class midfielders go and gambled on Wilshere's injury that hasn't worked either.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying this whole squad needs a cleanout - Ches, Sagna, Arteta, RvP, Wilshere - are players to grace 90% of clubs and Kos, TV5, and the Ox are good enough for most too. But they never are and never will be all fit together all of the time and its weekends like this one when I see a knackered RvP as the only striking option, and an 18 year old Ox being considered for a CM role, and one of two useless keepers on the bench.....that I still think we need to show £50m of transfer ambition if we are to make that next step

[mikeyb772001]

good comments.
someone has actually not blamed the manager for once. this forum is improving [/quote]



Don’t get it twisted. Im saying Wenger has done a great job reaching us back to 3rd spot. The failure at QPR and Wigan is down to the certain players not giving respect to smaller teams.

However the downfall from Feb 2011 – 18th Feb 2012 was all Wengers fault. The summer from hell was a disgrace and the relegation form that followed the CC was also a disgrace. Terrible.


Since 26th Feb 5.2 we have been like a new team , the fans back onside and the grove is becoming Home. Something changed and it all clicked. Its obvious the squad can do better things but the arrogance is the downfall now, not wenger under this period. He can only do so much in this time and if the players come out expecting a win then its down to them.

Honest thoughts are this period wont continue next season. I give him credit since the spud game but he will throw it all away guaranteed.

No doubt we will suffer a summer from hell, players wanting big contracts. Shits players being promoted and average players being signed again.[/quote]


Mikey, I am seriously getting worried about your state of mind recently given your love in with all things wenger
Anyway while I dont disagree with your slating of the players and their arrogance, why is wenger's role in this ignored ? These are his players so shouldnt he be able to motivate them instead of depending on a reserve centre back to do his job ? A manager can be excused of failing to notice lax attitude in his players once but how many fcuking times has it happened with these players ? Motivation and tactics are fundemental ingrediants in the role of good managers and wenger is shite at both

Have to say though that I cannot for the life of me understand how much credit you are giving to wenger for the recent upturn in results Right now we are in a battle to remain in the top 4 and much of this is down to wenger's refusal to spend and as a result he has flogged the most fragile centre forward in the game to the point that he has nothing left to give the team Our recent upturn would have meant f**k all if it hadnt of coincided with the absolute meltdown of our "friends" from the swamp and the in-house fighting and rebellion in chav city so I find this praise for wenger from people to be comical and astounding and the bottom line is that if we finish outside the much coveted top 4 then wenger must carry the can for that failure[/quote]


If you go over what I have said. I did say I give him credit for a run of games from scum 5.2 reaching us to 3rd spot. That’s 9 games worth of credit where I see that old fool actually doing something good.

That credit has now run out as he foolishly and arrogantly let it slip at Wigan and QPR. Though I still think during those games the players just didn’t seem to care. I also said that all of this is wengers fault anyway but credit where its due he did turn it around for 9 games.

That being said I openly admit he will fuck it up in the summer again as he did the summer before. Considering how bad everything was before the scum game I would of liked any manager to come in and take over until the end of the season and truth be known I still want him sacked now. However he did an okay job turning things around where I had us down for crashing most games and finishing 8th.

Since then we beat the scum, Liverpool away, everton away, Newcastle millan 3.0 so it shows he does have ability “when he wanst too”

I cant stand the man, my blood boils when I hear them sing his name and I will still jump for joy when the leaves my club. But im not stupid enough not to recognise the good he did during those 9 or so games.

[highburyJD]

I have no prob with mikeys post
just find it amazing a bit of lighthearted positive exaggeration gets Red banned
yet blatant hatred for our manager is fine and acceptable
strange days

[North-Bank-1987]

Personally I think Chesney has more passion and determination than any other player in the squad bar RVP, I know his distribution needs work but if you look at how many decent saves he has made recently, (the penalty and especially the second save against Kuyt - the first thing that comes to mind) I think we should be greatfull for his service rather than on his back. With regard to calling him an arrogant moron. Hes not a moron and his arrogance is a good sort of arrogance that I only really witnessed when he was taking the piss out of 5pur2. Would really like to see him in the sticks for a long time, I think theres more to come!

[Red Member]

Personally I think Chesney has more passion and determination than any other player in the squad bar RVP, I know his distribution needs work but if you look at how many decent saves he has made recently, (the penalty and especially the second save against Kuyt - the first thing that comes to mind) I think we should be greatfull for his service rather than on his back. With regard to calling him an arrogant moron. Hes not a moron and his arrogance is a good sort of arrogance that I only really witnessed when he was taking the piss out of 5pur2. Would really like to see him in the sticks for a long time, I think theres more to come!

after his performance on Saturday do you still feel the same way?

and if there is much more of the same to come then we wont be winning anymore trophies regardless of who is manager. Chesney has been the goalkeeper for our record 8-2 league defeat, our record 4-0 Champions League defeat and has now conceeded a massive 47 league goals this season. Totally unacceptable

now that we have bought Podolski the main priority should be to buy an experienced goalkeeper.

[mikeyb772001]

we should get vorn. Then we will see how good ches is