wages and the random number generator

[Goose]

I think it's fair to say that some people on here talk with authority (and outrage) at the amount that the manager/players/staff are earning.

Sadly, I'm not privy to that information, and often just assume I've missed some news bulletin that enables other fans to talk with such confidence on such financial matters.

Babatunde is one of these people, and I find his insight into the finances of the club quite interesting (and disturbing, if true), but inconsistencies make me wonder if it's not just guesswork... and therefore, does anyone really know what Diaby, Wenger and Gazidis are earning beyond having random numbers shoved down our throats by angry fans?

Below is an example of the inconsistency I'm talking about... so cards on the table... are people making up numbers to suit their argument? or is there solid evidence someone can share so that we're all singing from the same hymn sheet?

Because I'm losing confidence in the dizzying numbers thrown at me, and would like something tangible to back them up!

He ought to be saying sorry for drawing over £6 million a year of years and consistently defrauding Arsenal fan

Wenger has been happily lying for years as he picks up his £6.5 million

Arsene is working wonders on a limited wage bill of just £129 million and only earns £7 mil per season.

The problem is, Wenger won't walk because not only is he classless and arrogant, but he is happy to pick up his £7.5 million a year.

I should point out, all those quotes are from this season. Now, surely Wenger hasn't renegotiated his contract 3-4 times this season alone? and at the rate he's going, Baba will be quoting £10m by next season!

If anyone has solid reliable data on wages, I'd genuinely like to see it in this thread.

I reckon he is on a pay for performace deal. He gets a bonus for every 100th time he uses the phrases mental strength & handbrake off

[flash gunner]

Aaaah quelle surprise.
G88ner detracts from the wages argument by asserting there is 'no access to the books'.
Oh right - in which case, since Deloitte, Forbes and CNN do not have access to the ins and outs of the Arsenal books and wages, I suppose that they can all shut down their football finance sections, hand out P45s and be on their way eh?
I mean....why even bloody bother compiling lists on estimates when G88ner has said that all discussion ought to be redundant since no one KNOWS for FACT what the wages are?


I am used to hearing this diversionary rubbish from those of an affectionate emotional disposition towards Our Dear Leader.

The problem with you claiming Arsenal Truth's wage figures are skewed, is that Nigel Phillips (Arsenal Treasury so you'd think he would have a clue), confirmed that the figures posted online were extremely close to being spot on in accuracy. What do you argue to that now?

And again, quelle surprise, you have used the 'We are punching above our weight'.

Pure comedy nonsense. It's an almost embarrassing thing now.

Really? 'Punching above our weight'.

It's comical, because it seems that Wenger's apologists, or those seeking to perpetuate a fictitious agenda that Arsenal are in great shape, like to propagate this bollocks so let us kill it dead once and for all: Arsenal are NOT punching above their weight.

You have selectively picked the wages figure out there - the same ones whose accuracy you dispute - but have been happy to use this 'guesstimate' to promote this myth that Arsenal 'punch above their weight'.

No. Arsenal do NOT punch above their weight.

Pick up a copy of Deloitte or pick up a copy of Forbes and you will see Arsenal listed as the 4th richest club in European football. Yet, if you observe Arsenal's transfer spend, it's less than bloody Bolton Wanderers.

Arsenal cannot be 'punching above their weight' when they have a trophy record over seven years inferior to Portsmouth, Spuds and Birmingham. You're having a bloody laugh aren't you?

'Punching above their weight'? Jesus Christ.

Do I really have to point out the natural stupidity of the ridiculous notion that 'you should finish in the table where your wages dictate'

What kind of bollocks is this? Only desperate Arsenal fans use this nonsense notion.

How did Montpellier win the league in France ahead of PSG?
How did Valencia win two league titles when competing against the might of Real and Barca?
How did Newcastle and Spuds finish ahead of the highest wage spenders, Chelski?
How have Dortmund won back to back Bundesliga titles with a wage bill inferior to that of Aston Villa?
How did Arsenal win the league in 1989 despite being blown out the water on wages by teams such as Liverpool and even Manure?

It's a farcial and desperate argument to suggest that football has ever been as simplistic as 'you finish where your wage bill dictates'.

Somehow, Arsene's Little Helpers have managed to formulate a whole new excuse for his 'genius' (LOL) by claiming he is in fact OVERACHIEVING give his 'reosurces'!

Yeah sure. In which case, give Pardew and Redknapp a couple of MBEs for finishing ahead of Chelski then eh?

Yeah forget that 7 years without a trophy, forget the overpaying of pure rubbish, forget that Arsenal can ACTUALLY afford to match the biggest teams on wages but CHOOSE not to, ignore all those facts. Forget what the performance tells you:

ARSENE IS OVER-ACHIEVING.

What an absolute joke.

Oh by the way G88ner, until you have full access to the Greek government books, I don;t ever expect you, or anyone to have any discussions on the Euro and how they got in this mess, because you never had full access to the books, so you cannot therefore hold an opinion based on published information and widely researched/acknowledged bits.

Let's shut up all discussion until anyone SEES the wage books with their two eyes.

Forget all this bollocks Baba answer how you come to raise Wengers wages by a million and a half in 3 months?

[stg]

I've been looking around the interweb about Arsenals wages and looked at when Wenger and players signed new contracts and what was reported. A.Wengers contract is according to the media is £115,000 per week and Szezesny is reported to be £30,000 per week which are lower than the Arsenal truth report. Apart from the Arsenal truth report I could not find out about a a lot of players and their wages in the short time I looked, unless like NB52 who told everybody what he was earning most of the reports just said long term contracts.

It is like reading how much players cost on another thread I pointed out that "The highest buying figures I have found for 2011/12 are £58,410,000 the lowest selling price I have found for the same period is £63,875,000 which is a diffrence of £5,464,000 a lot less than the £15,280,000 that was being talked about"

These reports and articles are useful in the fact that they give a rough outline of what Arsenal are doing finacialy but to use them as fact would be misleading and in truth would weaken your argument because they can easily be dismissed. If I can find a diffrence of between £115,000 and £135,000 for Wengers wages and a diffrence roughly £10million between the money spent buying and selling by Arsenal on transfers by surfing the interweb for 20 mins then this shows these figures should only be used as a guide not as a stick to beat them with.

[Vinny1967]

Aaaah quelle surprise.
G88ner detracts from the wages argument by asserting there is 'no access to the books'.
Oh right - in which case, since Deloitte, Forbes and CNN do not have access to the ins and outs of the Arsenal books and wages, I suppose that they can all shut down their football finance sections, hand out P45s and be on their way eh?
I mean....why even bloody bother compiling lists on estimates when G88ner has said that all discussion ought to be redundant since no one KNOWS for FACT what the wages are?


I am used to hearing this diversionary rubbish from those of an affectionate emotional disposition towards Our Dear Leader.

The problem with you claiming Arsenal Truth's wage figures are skewed, is that Nigel Phillips (Arsenal Treasury so you'd think he would have a clue), confirmed that the figures posted online were extremely close to being spot on in accuracy. What do you argue to that now?

And again, quelle surprise, you have used the 'We are punching above our weight'.

Pure comedy nonsense. It's an almost embarrassing thing now.

Really? 'Punching above our weight'.

It's comical, because it seems that Wenger's apologists, or those seeking to perpetuate a fictitious agenda that Arsenal are in great shape, like to propagate this bollocks so let us kill it dead once and for all: Arsenal are NOT punching above their weight.

You have selectively picked the wages figure out there - the same ones whose accuracy you dispute - but have been happy to use this 'guesstimate' to promote this myth that Arsenal 'punch above their weight'.

No. Arsenal do NOT punch above their weight.

Pick up a copy of Deloitte or pick up a copy of Forbes and you will see Arsenal listed as the 4th richest club in European football. Yet, if you observe Arsenal's transfer spend, it's less than bloody Bolton Wanderers.

Arsenal cannot be 'punching above their weight' when they have a trophy record over seven years inferior to Portsmouth, Spuds and Birmingham. You're having a bloody laugh aren't you?

'Punching above their weight'? Jesus Christ.

Do I really have to point out the natural stupidity of the ridiculous notion that 'you should finish in the table where your wages dictate'

What kind of bollocks is this? Only desperate Arsenal fans use this nonsense notion.

How did Montpellier win the league in France ahead of PSG?
How did Valencia win two league titles when competing against the might of Real and Barca?
How did Newcastle and Spuds finish ahead of the highest wage spenders, Chelski?
How have Dortmund won back to back Bundesliga titles with a wage bill inferior to that of Aston Villa?
How did Arsenal win the league in 1989 despite being blown out the water on wages by teams such as Liverpool and even Manure?

It's a farcial and desperate argument to suggest that football has ever been as simplistic as 'you finish where your wage bill dictates'.

Somehow, Arsene's Little Helpers have managed to formulate a whole new excuse for his 'genius' (LOL) by claiming he is in fact OVERACHIEVING give his 'reosurces'!

Yeah sure. In which case, give Pardew and Redknapp a couple of MBEs for finishing ahead of Chelski then eh?

Yeah forget that 7 years without a trophy, forget the overpaying of pure rubbish, forget that Arsenal can ACTUALLY afford to match the biggest teams on wages but CHOOSE not to, ignore all those facts. Forget what the performance tells you:

ARSENE IS OVER-ACHIEVING.

What an absolute joke.

Oh by the way G88ner, until you have full access to the Greek government books, I don;t ever expect you, or anyone to have any discussions on the Euro and how they got in this mess, because you never had full access to the books, so you cannot therefore hold an opinion based on published information and widely researched/acknowledged bits.

Let's shut up all discussion until anyone SEES the wage books with their two eyes.

Calm Down Calm Down
I think you protest too much. Has Wenger's salary gone up to 8.5 million overnight

You do make some good points but I still think Salaries are tied into how successful we as a club can be. I was watching Liam Brady on Irish tv the other week and he was even suggesting that we need to pay more of we are going to keep up with the big three in our League.
Valencia - Where are they now ?
Chelsea were actually busy winning the FA cup and the Ch League so you cannot say the Newcastle and Spuds performed better than them this season.
Montpellier - Fantastic.
Dortmund - Fantastic but how you can compare them to Villa I do not know as they are in a different League.
What do you think will happen the players of Montpellier and Dortmund now ? I think the players will be targeted and unless they offer more attractive salaries they will want to leave and earn more.

Teams will win trophies on small budgets but No team will win the Prem League on a small budget because of the competition there is to be had in the Prem League with two multi billionaires willing to spend their pocket money to get the best players and the worlds wealthiest club to compete with. That is a FACT. The influx of money in the Prem league makes it slightly askew when using other Leagues as references.
Do I think we can be doing things better, Hell Yeah. Much Better.
But I will say it again. Unless we can compete on salaries we will never be able to attract the top players nor keep the world class players at our club. To that end we have to work a lot smarter than we have been.

Any chance of posting the figures that Nigel Phillips was referring to when he stated that they were very close to the truth.

[arseofacrow]

So, we're all agreed that the Wenger lead project has been a complete fuck-up?

[flash gunner]

So, we're all agreed that the Wenger lead project has been a complete fuck-up?

Without doubt its been an unmitigated disaster but fuck all that, how does Baba get Wenger wage increases every other month? and how do i get Baba as my pimp

[Babatunde]

Aaaah quelle surprise.
G88ner detracts from the wages argument by asserting there is 'no access to the books'.
Oh right - in which case, since Deloitte, Forbes and CNN do not have access to the ins and outs of the Arsenal books and wages, I suppose that they can all shut down their football finance sections, hand out P45s and be on their way eh?
I mean....why even bloody bother compiling lists on estimates when G88ner has said that all discussion ought to be redundant since no one KNOWS for FACT what the wages are?


I am used to hearing this diversionary rubbish from those of an affectionate emotional disposition towards Our Dear Leader.

The problem with you claiming Arsenal Truth's wage figures are skewed, is that Nigel Phillips (Arsenal Treasury so you'd think he would have a clue), confirmed that the figures posted online were extremely close to being spot on in accuracy. What do you argue to that now?

And again, quelle surprise, you have used the 'We are punching above our weight'.

Pure comedy nonsense. It's an almost embarrassing thing now.

Really? 'Punching above our weight'.

It's comical, because it seems that Wenger's apologists, or those seeking to perpetuate a fictitious agenda that Arsenal are in great shape, like to propagate this bollocks so let us kill it dead once and for all: Arsenal are NOT punching above their weight.

You have selectively picked the wages figure out there - the same ones whose accuracy you dispute - but have been happy to use this 'guesstimate' to promote this myth that Arsenal 'punch above their weight'.

No. Arsenal do NOT punch above their weight.

Pick up a copy of Deloitte or pick up a copy of Forbes and you will see Arsenal listed as the 4th richest club in European football. Yet, if you observe Arsenal's transfer spend, it's less than bloody Bolton Wanderers.

Arsenal cannot be 'punching above their weight' when they have a trophy record over seven years inferior to Portsmouth, Spuds and Birmingham. You're having a bloody laugh aren't you?

'Punching above their weight'? Jesus Christ.

Do I really have to point out the natural stupidity of the ridiculous notion that 'you should finish in the table where your wages dictate'

What kind of bollocks is this? Only desperate Arsenal fans use this nonsense notion.

How did Montpellier win the league in France ahead of PSG?
How did Valencia win two league titles when competing against the might of Real and Barca?
How did Newcastle and Spuds finish ahead of the highest wage spenders, Chelski?
How have Dortmund won back to back Bundesliga titles with a wage bill inferior to that of Aston Villa?
How did Arsenal win the league in 1989 despite being blown out the water on wages by teams such as Liverpool and even Manure?

It's a farcial and desperate argument to suggest that football has ever been as simplistic as 'you finish where your wage bill dictates'.

Somehow, Arsene's Little Helpers have managed to formulate a whole new excuse for his 'genius' (LOL) by claiming he is in fact OVERACHIEVING give his 'reosurces'!

Yeah sure. In which case, give Pardew and Redknapp a couple of MBEs for finishing ahead of Chelski then eh?

Yeah forget that 7 years without a trophy, forget the overpaying of pure rubbish, forget that Arsenal can ACTUALLY afford to match the biggest teams on wages but CHOOSE not to, ignore all those facts. Forget what the performance tells you:

ARSENE IS OVER-ACHIEVING.

What an absolute joke.

Oh by the way G88ner, until you have full access to the Greek government books, I don;t ever expect you, or anyone to have any discussions on the Euro and how they got in this mess, because you never had full access to the books, so you cannot therefore hold an opinion based on published information and widely researched/acknowledged bits.

Let's shut up all discussion until anyone SEES the wage books with their two eyes.

Forget all this bollocks Baba answer how you come to raise Wengers wages by a million and a half in 3 months?

The Arsenal Truth artricle says £7.5 mil.
France Football says 7 mil.

If that is the best point of contention you have to clutch onto (straws and grasping spring to mind), whilst overlooking that every research shows he is one of the 5 highest paid managers in Europe...if you wanna use this as a pedant, I am happy to giggle, and let u have a minor moral victory here.

How does it taste?

[skizz_b]

brilliant quotes

Haha.

I'm done with this thread after reading the latter part of the first post, see ya later!

[stg]

whilst overlooking that every research shows he is one of the 5 highest paid managers in Europe

Again a quick search on the web shows that Mr Wenger is 9th on the list of highest paid managers in Europe.

So just to get this straight there is reasonable doubt about the amount to are saying he earns and there is evidence that he is not in the top 5 paid managers Europe.

[donaldo]

What i think we can all agree on is Wenger is the most overpaid manager in the world

[Goose]

Aaaah quelle surprise.
G88ner detracts from the wages argument by asserting there is 'no access to the books'.
Oh right - in which case, since Deloitte, Forbes and CNN do not have access to the ins and outs of the Arsenal books and wages, I suppose that they can all shut down their football finance sections, hand out P45s and be on their way eh?
I mean....why even bloody bother compiling lists on estimates when G88ner has said that all discussion ought to be redundant since no one KNOWS for FACT what the wages are?


I am used to hearing this diversionary rubbish from those of an affectionate emotional disposition towards Our Dear Leader.

The problem with you claiming Arsenal Truth's wage figures are skewed, is that Nigel Phillips (Arsenal Treasury so you'd think he would have a clue), confirmed that the figures posted online were extremely close to being spot on in accuracy. What do you argue to that now?

And again, quelle surprise, you have used the 'We are punching above our weight'.

Pure comedy nonsense. It's an almost embarrassing thing now.

Really? 'Punching above our weight'.

It's comical, because it seems that Wenger's apologists, or those seeking to perpetuate a fictitious agenda that Arsenal are in great shape, like to propagate this bollocks so let us kill it dead once and for all: Arsenal are NOT punching above their weight.

You have selectively picked the wages figure out there - the same ones whose accuracy you dispute - but have been happy to use this 'guesstimate' to promote this myth that Arsenal 'punch above their weight'.

No. Arsenal do NOT punch above their weight.

Pick up a copy of Deloitte or pick up a copy of Forbes and you will see Arsenal listed as the 4th richest club in European football. Yet, if you observe Arsenal's transfer spend, it's less than bloody Bolton Wanderers.

Arsenal cannot be 'punching above their weight' when they have a trophy record over seven years inferior to Portsmouth, Spuds and Birmingham. You're having a bloody laugh aren't you?

'Punching above their weight'? Jesus Christ.

Do I really have to point out the natural stupidity of the ridiculous notion that 'you should finish in the table where your wages dictate'

What kind of bollocks is this? Only desperate Arsenal fans use this nonsense notion.

How did Montpellier win the league in France ahead of PSG?
How did Valencia win two league titles when competing against the might of Real and Barca?
How did Newcastle and Spuds finish ahead of the highest wage spenders, Chelski?
How have Dortmund won back to back Bundesliga titles with a wage bill inferior to that of Aston Villa?
How did Arsenal win the league in 1989 despite being blown out the water on wages by teams such as Liverpool and even Manure?

It's a farcial and desperate argument to suggest that football has ever been as simplistic as 'you finish where your wage bill dictates'.

Somehow, Arsene's Little Helpers have managed to formulate a whole new excuse for his 'genius' (LOL) by claiming he is in fact OVERACHIEVING give his 'reosurces'!

Yeah sure. In which case, give Pardew and Redknapp a couple of MBEs for finishing ahead of Chelski then eh?

Yeah forget that 7 years without a trophy, forget the overpaying of pure rubbish, forget that Arsenal can ACTUALLY afford to match the biggest teams on wages but CHOOSE not to, ignore all those facts. Forget what the performance tells you:

ARSENE IS OVER-ACHIEVING.

What an absolute joke.

Oh by the way G88ner, until you have full access to the Greek government books, I don;t ever expect you, or anyone to have any discussions on the Euro and how they got in this mess, because you never had full access to the books, so you cannot therefore hold an opinion based on published information and widely researched/acknowledged bits.

Let's shut up all discussion until anyone SEES the wage books with their two eyes.

Forget all this bollocks Baba answer how you come to raise Wengers wages by a million and a half in 3 months?

The Arsenal Truth artricle says £7.5 mil.
France Football says 7 mil.

If that is the best point of contention you have to clutch onto (straws and grasping spring to mind), whilst overlooking that every research shows he is one of the 5 highest paid managers in Europe...if you wanna use this as a pedant, I am happy to giggle, and let u have a minor moral victory here.

How does it taste?

Tastes like chicken, smells like fish???

[g88ner]

Babatunde, you missed my point, mate. Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear.

I just wanted people to share information, that's all. Sorry if that annoyed you, but I thought you'd actually use that as an opportunity to discuss wages openly instead of the dubious numbers we read on this forum.

I was wondering if there was any reliable data out there beyond blogs with no links... that's all. I think that's reasonable.

I was hoping people, like yourself, would post these links so we're all singing from the same hymn sheet. There's no need to be defensive, mate.

We all get the gist of our ridiculous wage structure, but what's the BEST info we have available to base our guesswork on? - that's all. Sadly, only one dubious link has been posted... I was hoping for more... especially from people like you are so passionate and animated about exposing our excessive wages.

So please feel free to use this thread for that... what's the best data we have on wages?

[g88ner]

And again, quelle surprise, you have used the 'We are punching above our weight'.

Pure comedy nonsense. It's an almost embarrassing thing now.

That's not a quote I've ever used. If you're going to quote me, then please do so with actual quotes.

I've not said that, and I don't believe that. No trophy in 7 years is not punching above out weight!

I think we're underachieving and Wenger should go.

[g88ner]

You claimed (and I will re-post the quote), that Arsenal 'could not compete' with Chelski .

Again, not a quote I've ever used. I've not said that, and I don't believe that.

We CAN compete with Chelsea... but only if our money is spent VERY well indeed, and our cooaching/tactics are top notch. Sadly, under Wenger that will not happen.

You do realise that those 2 long, angry posts of yours are based on two false quotes on views I don't hold, don't you? what a waste of time

Can we please stop the mud slinging and aggression, and get back to talking about wages and the BEST data we have available.

This is your platform!

[Supagoon]

We cannot compete with chelsea.

Please don't kid yourselves. A combo of Wenger, Hill Wood and of course Kroenke will ensure that it will not happen.

Are we maximising our resources right now? Absolutely not.