AST - Perks of the job

[Deise Gooner]

See that's what irks people Tim when you there is no need to worry about the AST if your not a member as it doesn't represent you. Forgive me if I'm wrong but surely the point of it is to represent the wider views of all fans not just those who have the opportunity or time to join the AST. That is the kind of thing that smacks of somehow claiming to be a Superfan because they put in the time when others can't.

I kind of understand what youre saying Deise but at the same time how can an organisation represent people that arent in that organisation? They cant represent EVERYONE and their views, there are probably 1001 different views on Wenger, the board and general 21st century Arsenal. They can only be expected to represent the views of their membership, surely?

Thats true Flash but from my point a view an organisation such that AST is should actively strive to represent the 'common gooner' whoever that is and whatever the viewpoints are. I just dont agree with someone joing a group and saying that they put their views across and if you arent a member then it does not represent you or your views. To me it just feels like some of these people just try to put themselves in these positions to gain credibility rather than to try and make the voices of the fans heard in relations with the club. I know if i was to join i wouldnt say to somebody that because they arent there their views shouldnt be put across by me or other members of their behalf.

[LDB]

Sorry but the AST regularly puts itself forward in the media as a de facto spokesman for Arsenal fans so I think fans are right to question what it does and what its agenda is. And frankly I refuse to believe that the AST's membership are all completely satisfied with the state of the club, and I'm not just talking about Wenger here. If they are then its because dissenting voices have most likely been sidelined or pushed out by a clique of patsies at the top of the organisation that want to remain cozy with the club.

So I ask, what exactly does the AST do or say to act on the many concerns Arsenal fans have?

[augie]

I respect the fact that tim has come on here to explain things even though he knows that such views would differ from the majority on here and kudo's to the man for that. I do however take issue with the "I am not the spokesperson for ast" statement - when an individual appears on sky and is introduced as being from an organisation and he then proceeds to put forward his points then he cannot claim that he is not speaking for the organisation if he made no attempt to make that distinction beforehand. Like it or not it is implied that he is speaking for the organisation and perception counts for a lot these days.

It really gets on my nerves that nowadays so many people seem incapable of thinking for themselves and this is where I have a severe issue with the lack of balance being put forward in interviews like yours. If people hear both sides of an argument then decide to oppose what I believe then that is fair enough (although obviously they would be wrong ) but to hear opinions from the same viewpoints always suggests that all Gooners are in agreement and clearly that ain't the case.

Obviously the fact that I am living here in Ireland rules me out of getting involved in any of these organisations although tbh I doubt if I would be accepted as a member for too long anyway such is my slightly militant disposition I am well aware that organisations like yours don't need to feel validated by the opinions of others but surely you can recognise the fact that there are also a large number of Gooners who do want wenger removed and an even larger number that want rid of gazidas and kroenke ? Hiding behind the fact that not enough of those fans are willing to get involved is all well and good but it doesn't really do your organisation much good if they are viewed as not representing a broad cross section of the Gooner community. Maybe reaching out to these people would benefit both your group and all fans going forward cos right now I feel that the club are getting things far too easy from aisa/ast/redaction etc and have no real reason to change how they treat us and maybe it is time that the status quo was shaken up ?

[Little Dutch]

Tim the link you posted on twitter of a thread off of here was over 3 months old and many of the people posting abuse have been dealt with, slightly unfair example of feelings towards you. I think the posts since your reply is a better representation of thoughts on here now

Aye I realise that, I hadn't intended to publicise for the general consumption. I was trying to illustrate a point to some tinhat nutcase who accused me of being overly negative towards the club. He said he felt I had an ulterior motive for defending Stewart Robson's right to criticise Theo Walcott and implied I had been paid off to write that. I was saying to him, effectively, that the happy clappy, "don't ever criticise the club, ever" crowd are just as fucking mental as the "I know where you sit so don't disagree with my anger about the club" that I've encountered elsewhere.

[Little Dutch]

Sorry but the AST regularly puts itself forward in the media as a de facto spokesman for Arsenal fans so I think fans are right to question what it does and what its agenda is. And frankly I refuse to believe that the AST's membership are all completely satisfied with the state of the club, and I'm not just talking about Wenger here. If they are then its because dissenting voices have most likely been sidelined or pushed out by a clique of patsies at the top of the organisation that want to remain cozy with the club.

So I ask, what exactly does the AST do or say to act on the many concerns Arsenal fans have?

If you can find me something where the AST has said in the media that it represents anything other than its membership, I'd be interested to see it. It gets its voice in the press for sure. No coincidence that Tim's dayjob is sports PR. But I'm certainly not aware of any occasion when it's ever wilfully said it's representing anything other than its membership.

[Little Dutch]

I respect the fact that tim has come on here to explain things even though he knows that such views would differ from the majority on here and kudo's to the man for that. I do however take issue with the "I am not the spokesperson for ast" statement - when an individual appears on sky and is introduced as being from an organisation and he then proceeds to put forward his points then he cannot claim that he is not speaking for the organisation if he made no attempt to make that distinction beforehand. Like it or not it is implied that he is speaking for the organisation and perception counts for a lot these days.

It really gets on my nerves that nowadays so many people seem incapable of thinking for themselves and this is where I have a severe issue with the lack of balance being put forward in interviews like yours. If people hear both sides of an argument then decide to oppose what I believe then that is fair enough (although obviously they would be wrong ) but to hear opinions from the same viewpoints always suggests that all Gooners are in agreement and clearly that ain't the case.

Obviously the fact that I am living here in Ireland rules me out of getting involved in any of these organisations although tbh I doubt if I would be accepted as a member for too long anyway such is my slightly militant disposition I am well aware that organisations like yours don't need to feel validated by the opinions of others but surely you can recognise the fact that there are also a large number of Gooners who do want wenger removed and an even larger number that want rid of gazidas and kroenke ? Hiding behind the fact that not enough of those fans are willing to get involved is all well and good but it doesn't really do your organisation much good if they are viewed as not representing a broad cross section of the Gooner community. Maybe reaching out to these people would benefit both your group and all fans going forward cos right now I feel that the club are getting things far too easy from aisa/ast/redaction etc and have no real reason to change how they treat us and maybe it is time that the status quo was shaken up ?

Where to start? Again, I'm not a "company man" here. All I can say is that if you were ever able to attend a meeting, you'd be surprised by how many share your "militance" as you put it. I can very well claim I'm speaking for myself at all times, because I do. If you can point me to a time I've said "well, the AST thinks" I'd like to see it. I think I remember referencing the survey results once, but that's about it. In fact, count the amount of times I use the qualifier "personally" in every interview you've seen or heard from me. It's very intentional. In fact, the very last radio junket I did on Radio 5, I said the exact phrase, "I don't deign to speak on behalf of Arsenal fans here because I don't have the desire or right to do that." Those exact words came out of my mouth to Ian McGarry. But if people don't want to hear that and choose to lazily attribute my witterings to an entire body of people with broad opinions, I don't really see that as my issue, but theirs.

Tim puts plenty of members forward for these things- to try and portray the range of personal opinion from what I can gather. Pedro from Le Grove has done a few bits, my mate Akhil, who's the biggest Wenger loyalist you'll meet, has been put forward for bits. People whose views are totally polar, even polar from Tim himself. I think he even set up an interview with Pete from Le Grove and Lois, whose views are totally polar. They were interviewed together, deliberately. I think your issue is possibly that you just focus on that which you don't agree with and filter out all else because it fits with this perception you've built up. Same wrong perception that you wouldn't be accepted as a member because of your views on Wenger. I was sat three seats away from Tim P at Old Trafford last season and trust me when I say he has no personal interest in preserving Wenger's status as infallible! The fact that he picks up a pretty much equal amount of accusations that he's trying to manoeuvre Wenger and Gazidis out is testament to that.

Like I say, I didn't say fans who want Wenger / Gazidis removed didn't want to get involved. I just wondered why I was being singled out on this forum for not carrying out that "work" on posters that reside here's behalf. It's not "my" organisation at all. Maybe try reading my first post again more carefully? I'm not behind the PR or the promotion and have no desire to be, you're much better off taking that up with Tim Payton.

[clockender1]

do AST ever sit down with AISA, BSM and the official ASC without the club there ?

it seems silly to me for everyone to approach the club individually on many issues. I would have thought a coalition to work out common ground and then have a meeting with the club would have more resonance with the club.

if you're looking for a name, can i suggest the Alliance of Registered Supporters Entities ?

[mcdowell42]

do AST ever sit down with AISA, BSM and the official ASC without the club there ?

it seems silly to me for everyone to approach the club individually on many issues. I would have thought a coalition to work out common ground and then have a meeting with the club would have more resonance with the club.

if you're looking for a name, can i suggest the Alliance of Registered Supporters Entities ?

[augie]

Firstly I believe that I stated in my post the importance of perception in everything that is done publicly - the relevence of that statement is that every time someone from ast is wheeled out in front of the camera's/radio's it is perceived that these people and their opinions are reflective of the organisation and of the Gooner community. I know it is not your fault that it is perceived that way so I am not pointing the blame at you per se but lets be honest here, when one of you are interviewed it is cos of your association with ast and not you as an individual because I dont think for one second that these interviewers pick names at random from a phone book.

Can I ask how the media came to contact ye in the first place ? Is it a wild assumption to think that they contacted ye through the club or at least through your association with the club ? How does it make you feel as an individual to think that the club view you and your organisation as a safe bet ? Do you believe that your(ast) cosy relationship with the club boosts how the ast is viewed amongst the broader Gooner community or do you feel that it actually damages how your organisation is viewed ? I am not having a dig when I ask that but I would suggest that the rep of redaction for example has taken a hit in recent years and am wondering if this something that your organisation is conscious of or even care about ?

Can I finish by saying that my remark about not lasting too long in an organisation like yours cos of my militant views was just a joke hence my emoticon at the end of the sentence Anybody who knows me would confirm that I like nothing better than a good open debate and exchange of opinions.

[northbankbren]

BUT......WHAT HAVE THE AST EVER DONE FOR US?????????

[northbankbren]

Im all for a fans voice. But none of the more polular groups ever seem to question the club in any real capacity...or actually do ANYTHING to benefit the average fan.

But you know what I question even more...

PAYING TO BE A MEMBER!!! Where does this money go...i hear the usual, website, sending out newsletters, banner ....

but why arent these done by donation? Whats the money for? It doesnt cost to all meet up in one place, or send out emails, or arrange meets.

Yes banners and promotional material cost, but should these not be funded by donation of those behind the cause to show an honest backing of that cause.

And quite frankly until any of these groups show any capability to actually make some change then there is no justification in giving any money to them.

[Reg Niseth]

Im all for a fans voice. But none of the more polular groups ever seem to question the club in any real capacity...or actually do ANYTHING to benefit the average fan.

But you know what I question even more...

PAYING TO BE A MEMBER!!! Where does this money go...i hear the usual, website, sending out newsletters, banner ....

but why arent these done by donation? Whats the money for? It doesnt cost to all meet up in one place, or send out emails, or arrange meets.

Yes banners and promotional material cost, but should these not be funded by donation of those behind the cause to show an honest backing of that cause.

And quite frankly until any of these groups show any capability to actually make some change then there is no justification in giving any money to them.

Speaking for the BSM regarding memberships etc. When it was first set up, those of us involved put our hands in our own pockets to get several hundred quid toegther to pay for the scarves, hats etc.. The money raised from the sale of these reimbursed those that had done so and left some over to arrange for the GREED banner.

The next thing we did was the billboard at the Bear Roundabout. that cost just under £700 and ONE person paid for that out of his own pocket . . . and though he has never asked for payment . . . we still owe him for it.

Having a paid membership (and let me tell everyone, it's not what we wanted to do) gives us a readily available fighting fund. With this we can act as and when we need to rather than waiting for donations to come through.

If anyone doesn't want to be a member, then they can still donate.

[Little Dutch]

Firstly I believe that I stated in my post the importance of perception in everything that is done publicly - the relevence of that statement is that every time someone from ast is wheeled out in front of the camera's/radio's it is perceived that these people and their opinions are reflective of the organisation and of the Gooner community. I know it is not your fault that it is perceived that way so I am not pointing the blame at you per se but lets be honest here, when one of you are interviewed it is cos of your association with ast and not you as an individual because I dont think for one second that these interviewers pick names at random from a phone book.

Can I ask how the media came to contact ye in the first place ? Is it a wild assumption to think that they contacted ye through the club or at least through your association with the club ? How does it make you feel as an individual to think that the club view you and your organisation as a safe bet ? Do you believe that your(ast) cosy relationship with the club boosts how the ast is viewed amongst the broader Gooner community or do you feel that it actually damages how your organisation is viewed ? I am not having a dig when I ask that but I would suggest that the rep of redaction for example has taken a hit in recent years and am wondering if this something that your organisation is conscious of or even care about ?

Can I finish by saying that my remark about not lasting too long in an organisation like yours cos of my militant views was just a joke hence my emoticon at the end of the sentence Anybody who knows me would confirm that I like nothing better than a good open debate and exchange of opinions.

AST get these kind of interviews because it's easy access. Like I say, Tim works in Sports PR so there aren't many sports journalists he doesn't have in his contacts. Every time an interview comes through the AST, it's because they contact Tim and Tim punts them onto me or someone else because he wants to vary the output. It's never done via the club. The club couldn't give out my contact details without my permission in any case through simple DPA legislation. The club would never arrange for a fan to speak to a media outlet. They simply don't have that kind of relationship with the AST anyway. The reality is that the relationship is strained.

The Arsenal press office has contacted me a couple of times in my capacity as a blogger to ask if I want to interview one of the Arsenal Ladies players. That's how they approach anything like that and that's as far as they'd ever go I think. They'd never unleash a random fan live on radio. I get chosen because I blog too and that straddles another category of fan that media agents like to wheel out. On a personal level, I know the club is very aware of my blogging work and I've been contacted for that reason (e,g. the talking heads feature on the website etc). I'm not even convinced the club knows or has any interest in the fact that I'm a member of the AST.

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

BUT......WHAT HAVE THE AST EVER DONE FOR US?????????

Brought Peace?

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Im all for a fans voice. But none of the more polular groups ever seem to question the club in any real capacity...or actually do ANYTHING to benefit the average fan.

But you know what I question even more...

PAYING TO BE A MEMBER!!! Where does this money go...i hear the usual, website, sending out newsletters, banner ....

but why arent these done by donation? Whats the money for? It doesnt cost to all meet up in one place, or send out emails, or arrange meets.

Yes banners and promotional material cost, but should these not be funded by donation of those behind the cause to show an honest backing of that cause.

And quite frankly until any of these groups show any capability to actually make some change then there is no justification in giving any money to them.

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