As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
clockender1 wrote:That is such a dreadful list - father and sons together, married couples, and the Fletcher family - three generations lost together.
This sums it up for me. Reading through those names. Dads and sons. Grandads and grandkids. Families. Just horrific. I remember seeing that footage of the poor guy on fire. Jesus what a terrible tragedy it was.
As was Hillsborough. I have nothing but sympathy for those that died that day too and their families. Let's not forget the ones that died were the ones that (mostly) turned up on time, with tickets, and were crushed by the surge from behind them.
It's the way the Mousers don't acknowledge their role in the tragedy and all but ignore the fact they murdered 39 Italians that sticks in my craw. It's always some one else's fault with them. The "Justice for the 96" scarves and banners... Whilst I agree there should be justice for the dead and their families, and any culpable police and authorities should be punished, I would add should justice not also be punishing their fellow fans that arrived late pissed up and without tickets and rushed the turnstiles and that still do that same shit even today?
spot on. always looking to blame never accepting any responsibility.
as boris said the whole city is mawkish about everything
But where these tragedies differ is surely in the massive cover up and the original flawed enquiry and verdict of 'accidental death' in regards to what happened at Hillsborough, versus the fire at Bradford that was blamed on a stray cigarette and the old wooden stands?
The constant fight for justice and the new enquiries etc are what keep Hillsborough in the news, whereby the Bradford fire does not appear to have had all the controversy around what was undoubtedly a terrible tragedy - there are no ongoing enquiries or any particular controversy around Bradford as far as I know?
Agree Cook. But the other side of that is I don't feel like I'm being asked to remember the victims of Hillsborough, which I have no problem with doing. I feel more often like I'm being badgered to support the campaign for a new enquiry and absolution of anyone and everyone connected to Liverpool in any way, which frankly has become tedious.
Not to mention those that died at Heysel. Strangely the Liverpool loving media choose to skirt off that one and the ensuing ban that affected innocent clubs such as ours thanks to the 'best supporters in the land' who have brought shame to English football in every corner of Europe
SteveO 35 wrote:Not to mention those that died at Heysel. Strangely the Liverpool loving media choose to skirt off that one and the ensuing ban that affected innocent clubs such as ours thanks to the 'best supporters in the land' who have brought shame to English football in every corner of Europe
What happened in Istanbul was also under-reported imo. Scousers steaming in late, pissed, without tickets, climbing gates? There was fairly widespread mugging of fans for their tickets by their fellow fans ffs.
SteveO 35 wrote:Not to mention those that died at Heysel. Strangely the Liverpool loving media choose to skirt off that one and the ensuing ban that affected innocent clubs such as ours thanks to the 'best supporters in the land' who have brought shame to English football in every corner of Europe
What happened in Istanbul was also under-reported imo. Scousers steaming in late, pissed, without tickets, climbing gates? There was fairly widespread mugging of fans for their tickets by their fellow fans ffs.
True...they are in a league of their own. Met a Scouser on holiday one time who had his ticket snatched off him by a fellow Liverpool fan just as he was going through the turnstile in Istanbul. Don't think I'm being naïve to say that I'd be shocked if I heard of a similar thing happening to a fellow gooner!
LDB wrote:Good point, the FA got off very lightly considering. All the focus on the police and the fans ignores the fact that no fences = no deaths.
Very true - when is the FA going to accept responsibility for having a big hand in Hillsbrough by choosing an unsafe venue for their competition?
The real irony being that they actually banned Highbury from hosting FA Cup semis for a long while, because of the lack of fences (after a pitch invasion after the 84 semi between Everton and Southampton).
I remember being at the West Ham home game when the ICF came in, smoke bombs let off and all sorts, mass fighting in the heart of the North Bank, it got really squashed down at the front as people tried to get out of the way. I was only 11 or so and it was terrifying, there was someone in front of me halfway over the wall and onto the pitch but he wasnt moving and we were getting more and more crushed. In the end I shoved him so that he went onto the pitch so that I could get out too, and a minute later, me, along with many others, were stood in the penalty area (the ref had already taken the players off)
If we'd had fences up it would have been disasterous.
SteveO 35 wrote:Not to mention those that died at Heysel. Strangely the Liverpool loving media choose to skirt off that one and the ensuing ban that affected innocent clubs such as ours thanks to the 'best supporters in the land' who have brought shame to English football in every corner of Europe
What happened in Istanbul was also under-reported imo. Scousers steaming in late, pissed, without tickets, climbing gates? There was fairly widespread mugging of fans for their tickets by their fellow fans ffs.
Yep, absolute scum the lot of them. Every time they come to us for a game, they bring a load without tickets and try and force their way in, then use the usual victims, poor us excuse. After that game in Istanbul and then a couple of years later in Athens when hundreds of them piled in without tickets, causing the exits and stairs to be blocked 4 and 5 deep, they were branded the worst fans in Europe by UEFA and still gave it all the shit about the ground not being up to it and so on. One bloke I knew who went to the game in Athens said that there were loads of them that just didn't give a shit about tickets or other fans and rolled up pissed out of their heads intent on forcing their way in. For all the fucking moaning they do, they really are scum bag *word censored* and it's their fucking fault for Heysel and the fact that English supporters were targeted all over Europe for years after the ban was lifted and still are in Italy today.
The most unpalatable thing about Hillsborough is that at the time, the whole of British football stopped for the victims and paid their respects so well. These days, the scouse *word censored* act like nobody gave a fuck and that really gets to me. What more did they want from supporters of other teams, who are nothing to do with it? The fact that people died at Hillsborough is nothing short of a disaster but the behaviour of the Liverpool fans over a number of years, especially only four years after Heysel meant that at the time, their reputation went before them.
Watching footage of The Ibrox disaster from the early 70s on Sky this morning (part of tribute to the late Sandy Jardine) reminded me of a Liverpool fan laughing about that disaster and enjoying one of the Celtic songs/taunts about it. would then get misty eyed about Hillsborough and blame Cockneys for Heysel..
I was at Bradford that day - I was just 8 years old. I still have bad dreams about it now, it was absolutely horrendous.
A lot of people died because the gates were locked so they were trapped. Horrible.
Thank God that side of the ground didn't have fences up.
Amazingly Lincoln keep having to warn fans to stop using flares, something that has creeped back in again for some reason. They are mainly young lads but, really, how fucking stupid can people be.
Goonimp wrote:I was at Bradford that day - I was just 8 years old. I still have bad dreams about it now, it was absolutely horrendous.
A lot of people died because the gates were locked so they were trapped. Horrible.
Thank God that side of the ground didn't have fences up.
Amazingly Lincoln keep having to warn fans to stop using flares, something that has creeped back in again for some reason. They are mainly young lads but, really, how fucking stupid can people be.
Amazed as well that the BBC and Sky so often glorify footage of fans using flares as if it's some sort of mark of a superfan... Ok, so it does look good - but given the number of deaths and serious injuries not something that I would have thought they should be encouraging.
I was travelling back from an Arsenal game in the midlands that day. Absolutely hammered by the time we got into a cab outside Euston...and instantly sober when the cabbie said had we heard about the fire!
@officialbantams: #bcafc - There will be a minute's silence before kick off today to remember the 56 supporters who died in the Valley Parade fire disaster.
Only a moments silence? No change to all other league matches in the country? A tragedy being dealt with humbly and responsibly with the focus on remembrance rather than self-interest? How strange.
Just to add that some pillock (Arsenal supporter) tried to mug me off for my CL final ticket in Paris.
He gave it the big 'un, and was game for a scrap.
Apparently he blagged a lift all the way over from London and thought he had a chance to nick mine just because we shared a beer and toke. C unt got short shrift, but he did manage to slip 50 euros at the petite gal at the barrier, and got through the gate.
would then get misty eyed about Hillsborough and blame Cockneys for Heysel..
