As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
DB10GOONER wrote:Sanchez was the populist and very obvious choice for MOTM (and I don't begrudge him it - he was brilliant) but for me Ozil was the quality, the vision and the calm intelligence on the pitch and was my MOTM.
I don't buy the "he's lazy" argument because that's not his game. He's a creator, not a runner. For me, the only thing I'd level at Ozil is inconsistency - but that may be indicative of frustration at playing with a few players well below his level.
I can't help but feel if we'd signed a top top striker then Ozil would be turning up like yesterday for every game and going back to being the biggest provider of assists in Europe.
Another weakness DB10 is that he doesn't dominate games as much as a true world class player does - certainly not in an Arsenal shirt anyway. Neither does Ozil shoot or score - or even take on the responsibility to at least try to - as often as he should, often passing the buck when in a good position to someone less so.
I'm not even sure I would say he is inconsistent because, for the best part of 3 years in an Arsenal shirt, he has been consistent - consistently under performing!! And sorry, I just don't buy the 'it's only coz the players aren't on his level' argument put forward by some. All the more reason why he should be imposing himself more on games say I!!
Now only a fool would deny that on his day Ozil can be a fantastic player. alas those days have been few and far between while he has been at Arsenal and for £42m I for one expect more than the very occasional 'good game'.
There....I said it!! Now I will retreat back into my bunker and let those of you that profess to know more about the game because 'you can see and appreciate his qualities' more than us critics allegedly can and do (and I don't mean you DB10 - though if the cap fits.... ), tell me where I am wrong.
Theoperator wrote:Yet to turn up in a big game is the often quoted mantra- yesterday showed what a class player he is, just cannot see how we would have done anything yesterday without Ozil- Sanchez is great but the vision of Ozil gets Sanchez going.
Great to see him score though he did miss another easier chance That perhaps is why he doesnt do it for a lot of us- if he actually scored more he would be more of a hero methinks.
So that's 1 good game in a big match in 3 years - yeah, proves conclusively that the critics are wrong.
Would like to see the stats for the big games, memories fade, do remember he was awful in the bindippers slaughter 2 years agowhich funnily resembled yesterdays game for manure I thought. , though we almost all were that day
Theoperator wrote:Yet to turn up in a big game is the often quoted mantra- yesterday showed what a class player he is, just cannot see how we would have done anything yesterday without Ozil- Sanchez is great but the vision of Ozil gets Sanchez going.
Great to see him score though he did miss another easier chance That perhaps is why he doesnt do it for a lot of us- if he actually scored more he would be more of a hero methinks.
So that's 1 good game in a big match in 3 years - yeah, proves conclusively that the critics are wrong.
Liverpool at home last year, his home debut against Napoli, Last year's Cup Final, United in the cup last year and that's from thinking about it for 30 seconds.
Theoperator wrote:Yet to turn up in a big game is the often quoted mantra- yesterday showed what a class player he is, just cannot see how we would have done anything yesterday without Ozil- Sanchez is great but the vision of Ozil gets Sanchez going.
Great to see him score though he did miss another easier chance That perhaps is why he doesnt do it for a lot of us- if he actually scored more he would be more of a hero methinks.
So that's 1 good game in a big match in 3 years - yeah, proves conclusively that the critics are wrong.
Liverpool at home last year, his home debut against Napoli, Last year's Cup Final, United in the cup last year and that's from thinking about it for 30 seconds.
Yet if you asked the same question about Dennis Bergkamp you wouldn't say 3 off the top of your head because he was exceptional throughout his career.
Ozil whilst very talented hasn't consistently done the same for Arsenal. His body language shows off a player that never seems happy. Well if getting paid £100k plus for doing a job you love, doesn't give you satisfaction what the fuck does!
I am not convinced Ozil actually wants to stay at Arsenal, when subbed on Sunday getting a raucous standing ovation from 60,000 gooners he walked off looking like a miserable fucker, didn't even raise a hand to applaud our support, which for once was first class.
Quality wise, no doubt he can see a pass most players can't but unlike DB10 he hasn't scored anywhere near as many goals as he should.
Theoperator wrote:Yet to turn up in a big game is the often quoted mantra- yesterday showed what a class player he is, just cannot see how we would have done anything yesterday without Ozil- Sanchez is great but the vision of Ozil gets Sanchez going.
Great to see him score though he did miss another easier chance That perhaps is why he doesnt do it for a lot of us- if he actually scored more he would be more of a hero methinks.
So that's 1 good game in a big match in 3 years - yeah, proves conclusively that the critics are wrong.
Liverpool at home last year, his home debut against Napoli, Last year's Cup Final, United in the cup last year and that's from thinking about it for 30 seconds.
Yet if you asked the same question about Dennis Bergkamp you wouldn't say 3 off the top of your head because he was exceptional throughout his career.
Ozil whilst very talented hasn't consistently done the same for Arsenal. His body language shows off a player that never seems happy. Well if getting paid £100k plus for doing a job you love, doesn't give you satisfaction what the fuck does!
I am not convinced Ozil actually wants to stay at Arsenal, when subbed on Sunday getting a raucous standing ovation from 60,000 gooners he walked off looking like a miserable fucker, didn't even raise a hand to applaud our support, which for once was first class.
Quality wise, no doubt he can see a pass most players can't but unlike DB10 he hasn't scored anywhere near as many goals as he should.
You cant compare Ozil to DB10. Dennis was signed as a striker, was already a world class striker when we signed him. He developed as a second striker as he had Ian Wright, Anelka then Henry, alongside him, then subsequently in front of him as they had more pace. The only player I can think of to compare Ozil with is Hleb, but 1000 times better. I'd play Ozil behind a front 2 of Sanchez and Walcott in a 4-3-1-2 formation. With current players Coquelin, Ramsey, Carzola (Wilshere), Ozil, Sanchez, Walcott.
Theoperator wrote:Yet to turn up in a big game is the often quoted mantra- yesterday showed what a class player he is, just cannot see how we would have done anything yesterday without Ozil- Sanchez is great but the vision of Ozil gets Sanchez going.
Great to see him score though he did miss another easier chance That perhaps is why he doesnt do it for a lot of us- if he actually scored more he would be more of a hero methinks.
So that's 1 good game in a big match in 3 years - yeah, proves conclusively that the critics are wrong.
Liverpool at home last year, his home debut against Napoli, Last year's Cup Final, United in the cup last year and that's from thinking about it for 30 seconds.
Even if I were to let you have those 'examples' - and Napoli at home hardly qualifies in my book - that's 3 in 3 years. I could give you another 30 weeks to try and find others but you'd be struggling to come up with more than another couple of big matches in which Ozil has had an influence . Do you think that is a good enough return GP543 considering his ability, reputation and price tag, coz I for one don't.
Like I previously said, no-one can say he isn't a good footballer. The question is whether he has/can/will do it for us with anywhere enough regularity to a) help us win the bigger trophies and b) justify the outlay on him. If the answer according to all the evidence thus far is No, he hasn't, then surely the only option given the choices in the poll above is Yes?
Either that or spending a few hundred million rebuilding the whole team around him so we can see the best of Ozil - and even then, we'd need assurances from the opposition that they won't dare try and tackle him. And much as you and I might like to see that outlay on top quality players to improve the team, it just ain't going to happen.
Theoperator wrote:Yet to turn up in a big game is the often quoted mantra- yesterday showed what a class player he is, just cannot see how we would have done anything yesterday without Ozil- Sanchez is great but the vision of Ozil gets Sanchez going.
Great to see him score though he did miss another easier chance That perhaps is why he doesnt do it for a lot of us- if he actually scored more he would be more of a hero methinks.
So that's 1 good game in a big match in 3 years - yeah, proves conclusively that the critics are wrong.
Liverpool at home last year, his home debut against Napoli, Last year's Cup Final, United in the cup last year and that's from thinking about it for 30 seconds.
Even if I were to let you have those 'examples' - and Napoli at home hardly qualifies in my book - that's 3 in 3 years. I could give you another 30 weeks to try and find others but you'd be struggling to come up with more than another couple of big matches in which Ozil has had an influence . Do you think that is a good enough return GP543 considering his ability, reputation and price tag, coz I for one don't.
Like I previously said, no-one can say he isn't a good footballer. The question is whether he has/can/will do it for us with anywhere enough regularity to a) help us win the bigger trophies and b) justify the outlay on him. If the answer according to all the evidence thus far is No, he hasn't, then surely the only option given the choices in the poll above is Yes?
Either that or spending a few hundred million rebuilding the whole team around him so we can see the best of Ozil - and even then, we'd need assurances from the opposition that they won't dare try and tackle him. And much as you and I might like to see that outlay on top quality players to improve the team, it just ain't going to happen.
How many other big matches, besides the ones I mentioned, have Arsenal played as of late that he was available to be selected for?
Most chances created and consistently in our top 3 for distance covered. The comments about him being a "miserable fucker" are absurd. Look at his reaction after our goals. People want to sell him because he doesn't scream and shout and make an overexuberant fool of himself? Nonsense. I'd take someone who goes about their mastery of the game quietly and humbly rather than the absolute drug-laden wastes of Gazza and Fowler.
I think we'd be nuts to sell Mesut. One thing that has always grated on me is his work rate, which is quite poor, but seems to have improved slightly this season. His vision is exceptional and his passing is superb. If we had a world class striker we'd see the best of Ozil.
gp543 wrote:Liverpool at home last year, his home debut against Napoli, Last year's Cup Final, United in the cup last year and that's from thinking about it for 30 seconds.
Even if I were to let you have those 'examples' - and Napoli at home hardly qualifies in my book - that's 3 in 3 years. I could give you another 30 weeks to try and find others but you'd be struggling to come up with more than another couple of big matches in which Ozil has had an influence . Do you think that is a good enough return GP543 considering his ability, reputation and price tag, coz I for one don't.
Like I previously said, no-one can say he isn't a good footballer. The question is whether he has/can/will do it for us with anywhere enough regularity to a) help us win the bigger trophies and b) justify the outlay on him. If the answer according to all the evidence thus far is No, he hasn't, then surely the only option given the choices in the poll above is Yes?
Either that or spending a few hundred million rebuilding the whole team around him so we can see the best of Ozil - and even then, we'd need assurances from the opposition that they won't dare try and tackle him. And much as you and I might like to see that outlay on top quality players to improve the team, it just ain't going to happen.
How many other big matches, besides the ones I mentioned, have Arsenal played as of late that he was available to be selected for?
Most chances created and consistently in our top 3 for distance covered. The comments about him being a "miserable fucker" are absurd. Look at his reaction after our goals. People want to sell him because he doesn't scream and shout and make an overexuberant fool of himself? Nonsense. I'd take someone who goes about their mastery of the game quietly and humbly rather than the absolute drug-laden wastes of Gazza and Fowler.
Of late? That Napoli game was in 2013! If you are using that as the benchmark of a big match then in his time here we have played:
United x6
Chelsea x7
Spurs x6
City x5
Bayern x2
Monaco x2
Liverpool x6
Dortmund x4
Marseille x2
Napoli x2
Everton away x2
Southampton away x2
FA Cup finals x2
FA Cup semi-finals x2
He's missed some of those through injury but a handful of good performances (and very few if any decisive ones) in a multitude of big games is hardly a record to be proud of.
Ozil is one of those players that plays and looks better, the higher the quality around him.
He also needs people tp be moving around in a purposeful manner not waiting on the sideways pass.
On Sunday we had a free flow of people moving around at pace ,this is where he is at his best !
Herd wrote:Ozil is one of those players that plays and looks better, the higher the quality around him.
He also needs people tp be moving around in a purposeful manner not waiting on the sideways pass.
On Sunday we had a free flow of people moving around at pace ,this is where he is at his best !
And he needs to score more goals. Sunday could be a good start. Countless times he's wasted opportunities with weak/tame finishes, Sunday he got himself in a good position and finishes excellently. More of the same please.
Theoperator wrote:Yet to turn up in a big game is the often quoted mantra- yesterday showed what a class player he is, just cannot see how we would have done anything yesterday without Ozil- Sanchez is great but the vision of Ozil gets Sanchez going.
Great to see him score though he did miss another easier chance That perhaps is why he doesnt do it for a lot of us- if he actually scored more he would be more of a hero methinks.
So that's 1 good game in a big match in 3 years - yeah, proves conclusively that the critics are wrong.
Liverpool at home last year, his home debut against Napoli, Last year's Cup Final, United in the cup last year and that's from thinking about it for 30 seconds.
Yet if you asked the same question about Dennis Bergkamp you wouldn't say 3 off the top of your head because he was exceptional throughout his career.
Ozil whilst very talented hasn't consistently done the same for Arsenal. His body language shows off a player that never seems happy. Well if getting paid £100k plus for doing a job you love, doesn't give you satisfaction what the fuck does!
I am not convinced Ozil actually wants to stay at Arsenal, when subbed on Sunday getting a raucous standing ovation from 60,000 gooners he walked off looking like a miserable fucker, didn't even raise a hand to applaud our support, which for once was first class.
Quality wise, no doubt he can see a pass most players can't but unlike DB10 he hasn't scored anywhere near as many goals as he should.
You cant compare Ozil to DB10. Dennis was signed as a striker, was already a world class striker when we signed him. He developed as a second striker as he had Ian Wright, Anelka then Henry, alongside him, then subsequently in front of him as they had more pace. The only player I can think of to compare Ozil with is Hleb, but 1000 times better. I'd play Ozil behind a front 2 of Sanchez and Walcott in a 4-3-1-2 formation. With current players Coquelin, Ramsey, Carzola (Wilshere), Ozil, Sanchez, Walcott.
DB10 was NOT signed as a striker. He was bought predominantly to play in the hole behind those players you mentioned and create chances for them. The formation is different these days granted, but if you look at Ozil's role in the team he is there to create chances for his team mates AND to contribute to the overall goals tally. He hasn't scored anywhere near the amount of goals he should and like hleb when in the box has a tendency to shirk the responsibility he should take.
You also seem to have ignored the rest of my post, the blokes attitude sucks. Which to me suggests he thinks he is bigger and better than our club.
), tell me where I am wrong. 
That perhaps is why he doesnt do it for a lot of us- if he actually scored more he would be more of a hero methinks.
