As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
northbank123 wrote:I don't expect or frankly want Ozil chasing round all over the park etc but he seems utterly ambivalent to what is going on around him and it hardly mitigates his awful performances.
I'm seriously worried. Established quality players do not take over a year to show no signs of adapting to the league. At what point do we accept he's not going to be that player?
Me neither, but anyone who thinks that you go from being an Ozil to a Cattermole just by showing some effort is a fucking halfwit (not the argument you're making I know but others have tried to suggest by slating Ozil that you're almost implying you want a plodding carthorse as a replacement)
Sanchez gave some outstanding examples yesterday of when he lost possession and worked his nuts off to get it back. A little bit of effort never killed anyone
He doesn't have to bomb about the pitch like a small dog to a football. Effort in his own position would be more than sufficient.
Wenger is ruining him but he's also not helping himself with his manner, these next few weeks are important for him, Wenger seems to have changed the system to force Wilshere and Ramsey into the side and the one who is suffering is Ozil who has to play a wide role and is not very good at it.
Jack is starting to play well so you can't complain about his place, Ramsey is not but he's earned credit so must play which leaves Ozil in a position where he has to man up or its gonna end in tears.
When Walcott returns he will surely play Ozil behind the striker with Walcott right, Sanchez left with Jack and Ramsey behind, then he will thrive I think but it seems like a long time until that happens if it happens, no way will he drop him that's for sure.
Wenger does have to take some blame for the situation even though people are well within their rights to criticise his poor work ethic.
Some players like Sanchez are fighters and don't really need any looking after, some need to have someone constantly telling them how great they are and an arm round them when things aren't going well. Ozil definitely seems to be the latter and Wenger/the club will surely have known that when they bought him. I actually thought he did better against City than in previous games this season but he looks completely out of form. He needs to play games to get back in to some kind of form but how long can we carry him for?
Playing him out wide is typical Wenger, but also, he is that luxury type player that needs top players around him for him to be at his most effective. As some have already mention, our squad is massively unbalanced, Ozil should be our undisputed No 10 role, but that area is so crowded Wenger is moving people into unfamiliar positions where we are short to accomodate them. That is not going to be well received by the players who don't have the right attributes to play those roles.
He's the new flavour to bash. I didn't think he played terribly on Saturday. After we scored he was alot more influential. I do think as soon as Theo is back and Ozil is moved to the number 10 position you will see a totally different player.
Gunnersaurus wrote:Wenger is ruining him but he's also not helping himself with his manner, these next few weeks are important for him, Wenger seems to have changed the system to force Wilshere and Ramsey into the side and the one who is suffering is Ozil who has to play a wide role and is not very good at it.Jack is starting to play well so you can't complain about his place, Ramsey is not but he's earned credit so must play which leaves Ozil in a position where he has to man up or its gonna end in tears.
When Walcott returns he will surely play Ozil behind the striker with Walcott right, Sanchez left with Jack and Ramsey behind, then he will thrive I think but it seems like a long time until that happens if it happens, no way will he drop him that's for sure.
It is a viscious circle - He knows his best play is not suited to the flanks, but knows that wenger has decided that's where he will play - because he(Wenger) is inept when it comes to tactics and team formation when utilising the players (as a whole) best positions and skills, Ozil is one of the players suffering - along with Pods.
It is wenger who buys in the players - all the Mid-Fielders we have and not one decent holding player - he plays Sanogo - who wouldn't get in any other prem team squad - so Ozil having been shunted out on the flanks - has lost his confidence and desire - I wouldn't be surprised if he askes for a move next summer.....if we had a manager capable of managing the team and the many excellent players we have - Ozil would be playing far better.
OneBardGooner wrote:
It is wenger who buys in the players - all the Mid-Fielders we have and not one decent holding player - he plays Sanogo - who wouldn't get in any other prem team squad - so Ozil having been shunted out on the flanks - has lost his confidence and desire - I wouldn't be surprised if he askes for a move next summer.....if we had a manager capable of managing the team and the many excellent players we have - Ozil would be playing far better.
In fairness its alleged that Ozil wasnt Wengers signing, also in fairness wasnt Ozil out on the wing forJoachim Löws world cup matches, which he played almost every minute in ?
Just saying, not to say that the situation is good- clearly things arent right for whatever reason, but its wrong to blame AW for it all in this one
Just hope that the supporters keep the faith, he will come good Im sure
OneBardGooner wrote:
It is wenger who buys in the players - all the Mid-Fielders we have and not one decent holding player - he plays Sanogo - who wouldn't get in any other prem team squad - so Ozil having been shunted out on the flanks - has lost his confidence and desire - I wouldn't be surprised if he askes for a move next summer.....if we had a manager capable of managing the team and the many excellent players we have - Ozil would be playing far better.
In fairness its alleged that Ozil wasnt Wengers signing, also in fairness wasnt Ozil out on the wing forJoachim Löws world cup matches, which he played almost every minute in ?
Just saying, not to say that the situation is good- clearly things arent right for whatever reason, but its wrong to blame AW for it all in this one
Just hope that the supporters keep the faith, he will come good Im sure
I see where you're coming from, but from what was said at the time - Wenger spent 3 hours on the dog&bone on deadline day with Ozil convincing him to sign - whether that's true or not I guess we'll never know - But Wenger doesn't seem capable of accommodating the various types of players and their skills within a coherent formation & system - Ozil just seems to not fit in with what is being asked of him - Okay, perhaps he should just knuckle down and get on with it - and at £100k a week or whatever it is he's on - he should, but hey! that's the present state of football and the prima donna players that earn millions for doing something we would all love to do on far far less moolah.
Also the system Ozil played in under Lows was very different to what Wenger insists upon....Maybe that's why he when siginging for such a large amount of money thought he would be played in his natural position...
OneBardGooner wrote:
It is wenger who buys in the players - all the Mid-Fielders we have and not one decent holding player - he plays Sanogo - who wouldn't get in any other prem team squad - so Ozil having been shunted out on the flanks - has lost his confidence and desire - I wouldn't be surprised if he askes for a move next summer.....if we had a manager capable of managing the team and the many excellent players we have - Ozil would be playing far better.
In fairness its alleged that Ozil wasnt Wengers signing, also in fairness wasnt Ozil out on the wing forJoachim Löws world cup matches, which he played almost every minute in ?
Just saying, not to say that the situation is good- clearly things arent right for whatever reason, but its wrong to blame AW for it all in this one
Also addressed this on the other thread... and also the fact he was used on the wing in our FA Cup winning season.
And, as much as I rate him as world class, in all honesty he didn't exactly play a key role in either of those wins. Don't get me wrong, he did his share, but those teams won those trophies not because he was on the wing but almost in spite of the fact he was on the wing. If you took Ozil out of either of those teams they still would have won those trophies.
He needs to play in a free number 10 role where his deft touch and visionary passing can unlock defences. And I'm not excusing his lack of effort either, he hasn't done enough, but I'd also say that might be down to being pissed off with being played as a winger.
For Ozil to play the number 10 role (i.e. float about where you want, don't have to track back, but be expected to unlock defences etc), and I would like to see him given the chance (just to see if he can still do it), we would need to play two defensive midfielders, because if Arteta/Flamini sit deep-ish and Ozil wanders about behind the strikers, it leaves one player (Rambo or Jack) to patrol the centre of midfield on their own.
It's a system that works OK for Brazil and others, but I'm not sure it's suited to the PL and we've not got the DMs or attacking FBs to make it work anyway.
Which begs the obvious question, 'What did we intend to do with Ozil when we bought him?"
The bigger question is why didn't we sign Fabregas, we were supposed to have Ozil for his position, seems a bit annoying now because Ozil is not playing in his position.
I don't think it needs two DMs GJ. City play with one dM and then a box to box midfielder in Toure. Albeit he is class. But in theory I don't see why he couldn't play in front of Ramsey and a dM.
Spending that sort of money to play someone out of position is fundamentally stupid. In terms of PL or CL challenge this season is already a write-off and there are no other outstanding candidates we'd be ousting. Might as well give him the season (or the next 5 or 6 months at least) at 10 and if his performances don't improve sell him.
Just like someone said somewhere, if OZIL can not man up to have a talk with Wenger to demand to be played in his preferred position, then he will keep taking the blame. He is a big enough player(42 ml big), to seek audience with Wenger and have a full , serious talk on his play and preferences. If he doesnt do that, there will be no excuse for him because fans will always see him as someone who cant be bothered. He should stop the docile and easy attitude, look Wenger in the face and demand “Play me in my rightful position or I quit and wont take the blame anymore”.
I am tired of how everything goes at Arsenal. They all become deaf and mute once they come here.
It's getting a bit tedious...Ozil is one of the best no.10's in the world, why is he not playing in that position? Simple, he doesn't fit wenger's system. At real Madrid he played behind Benzema, with di maria and Ronaldo on the wings. Ozil needs to play in a diamond front 4 with sanchez, welbeck, and Walcott( Chamberlain) in front. We can play a 4-2-1-3. It's the way our 3 championship winning teams under wenger played, so why not use it now?
GranadaJoe wrote:For Ozil to play the number 10 role (i.e. float about where you want, don't have to track back, but be expected to unlock defences etc), and I would like to see him given the chance (just to see if he can still do it), we would need to play two defensive midfielders, because if Arteta/Flamini sit deep-ish and Ozil wanders about behind the strikers, it leaves one player (Rambo or Jack) to patrol the centre of midfield on their own.
It's a system that works OK for Brazil and others, but I'm not sure it's suited to the PL and we've not got the DMs or attacking FBs to make it work anyway.
Which begs the obvious question, 'What did we intend to do with Ozil when we bought him?"
