THE WENGER THREAD

[REB]

#WOBARMY

[highburyJD]

no problem with paying more to keep them AFTER they have justified it by the quality of their performances. Wenger has rewarded them for repeated failure to perform. I say it should be horse before cart every time.

which is how we lost Hleb, Na$ri and Flamini
its not easy

[rigsby]

Its a tough balancing act as JD notes. United have lost two very promising players because of a refusal to grant them bigger wages. Now that can be seen as prudent or terrible if they go on and become world beaters. Wenger obviously invested the money in the players to not lose them. Some of it has undoubtedly worked and others have failed.

And ignore Stewart Robson. There's being realistic and then there is just plain being pathetic. He's a bloody Iron anyway.

[DB10GOONER]

no problem with paying more to keep them AFTER they have justified it by the quality of their performances. Wenger has rewarded them for repeated failure to perform. I say it should be horse before cart every time.

which is how we lost Hleb, Na$ri and Flamini
its not easy

Oh, I agree it's not easy. No one ever said it was. But then it's a highly paid job! If Wenger can't do it satisfactorily any more then he should be replaced. It's a results driven business at all levels and, within our expectations as one of the so called Big 5, Wenger is not delivering anymore. I'm not a Wenger hater, but I am realistic in admitting he has failed to deliver repeatedly over the last 6 years. Will always love and respect the man for what he achieved 98-06 - but now it is time for change.

As for your examples?

Hleb was no real loss for me tbh. He was a luxury player and contributed little. Great at dribbling but very little real end product. Most frustrating player I've ever seen, because he did have real talent, but was too indesicive on the ball. I recall being at games and hearing a groan from the crowd ecery time he turned back around and dribbled back past the oppo player he had just beaten a second earlier and then passed back to the CH's yet again. The guy drove me fucking nuts!

My reading of the Flamini case was the club fucked him around with his contract and made him feel as if he had been taken for granted.

And Nasri? A greedy little man that gave us the sum total of one (admittedly brilliant) half season and wanted huge money for it. Not irreplaceable by any stetch of the imagination.

[highburyJD]

I (mostly - think Hleb was excellent for one season) agree with your player assessments
Marseille were pissed off with us when we took Flamster and Na$ri so I guess you reap what you sow

just see Wenger's contract errors as overcorrection one way or another - bit like a dodgy golf swing

stadium move budgetary constraints meant he's had to be a teambuilder
naturally he favoured getting it wrong in the direction of player retention

I think the situation now is the Flamini, Cesc, Hleb, Rosicky team fell apart - money
he was happy to sell Greedybarndoor & Toure
he was unhappy giving up on Denilson but his hand was forced
the Na%ri & Cesc departures meant he wasn't quite back at square one
(Kos, Verm, Wilshere all established Prem players now) but with RVP leaving there's no choice but a rebuild

I think Wenger has obvious failings: he placed too much faith in players, he's never been a tactical manager
(these are arguably very close to his strengths)
but where we are now (his responsibility but still where we are) is creating a new team
this is something I think he's good at so I would keep him

[OneBardGooner]

Also - AW has two seaons left on his contract - I think - and so having seen the Youngsters project fail, he is trying to right the sinking ship before he does depart....even so, he bought Santos - who is a skilled player - but not LB material proper, and Gibbs is too lightweight...so if he doesn't do so this transfer window - maybe he will invest in a proper LB , back-up goalie and play-breaker in Mid-field next year!...Regardless of all the confusion/lies/evasion - by the board on what money is actually available - Money is Not available - unless we sell, which is why if RVP does stay that'll upset the balance books...so could force them into getting shot of the dregs for less than they planned - which is a win win either way for me.

Have to agree with DB10 on wenger he did great till 06 - but time for him to go...Sadly his achievements will be overshadowed by his latter years of failure, also they've now brought in Bould in readiness for his departure...either he will move on up - or be the assistant manager to help steady things when the new manager comes in...

[franksav63]

Also - AW has two seaons left on his contract - I think - and so having seen the Youngsters project fail, he is trying to right the sinking ship before he does depart....even so, he bought Santos - who is a skilled player - but not LB material proper, and Gibbs is too lightweight...so if he doesn't do so this transfer window - maybe he will invest in a proper LB , back-up goalie and play-breaker in Mid-field next year!...Regardless of all the confusion/lies/evasion - by the board on what money is actually available - Money is Not available - unless we sell, which is why if RVP does stay that'll upset the balance books...so could force them into getting shot of the dregs for less than they planned - which is a win win either way for me.

Have to agree with DB10 on wenger he did great till 06 - but time for him to go...Sadly his achievements will be overshadowed by his latter years of failure, also they've now brought in Bould in readiness for his departure...either he will move on up - or be the assistant manager to help steady things when the new manager comes in...

OBG, these players for these positions are required NOW! I don't have much trust in WS, if I'm honest, he's a fine keeper but needs competition, left back, well, it's looking like a defnite weak point of the team.

Bould was only brought in because of Rice's retirement, if he hadn't he'd still be there, so no, not in readiness for Wenger's overdue departure, unfortunately. It would have been nice if the club had done that, but nowadays they're just not that proactive, especially when it comes to freshening up glaringly obvious defiencies in the back room department.

[TeeCee]

Bottom line is, Wenger would not still be in his job in any other business after 7 years of failure and persistent failure to address recurring issues. There are so many 'problem areas' in his management over the past few years. I still don't believe Arsenal will move forward as a club until Wenger has gone. I believe that when Wenger goes, some of the board members may feel it's time to move on also and that can only be a good thing for the club as well. We need a complete change in the management structure to ensure we have the right ambition and dynamism required to make the club competitive and successful.

[OneBardGooner]

Also - AW has two seaons left on his contract - I think - and so having seen the Youngsters project fail, he is trying to right the sinking ship before he does depart....even so, he bought Santos - who is a skilled player - but not LB material proper, and Gibbs is too lightweight...so if he doesn't do so this transfer window - maybe he will invest in a proper LB , back-up goalie and play-breaker in Mid-field next year!...Regardless of all the confusion/lies/evasion - by the board on what money is actually available - Money is Not available - unless we sell, which is why if RVP does stay that'll upset the balance books...so could force them into getting shot of the dregs for less than they planned - which is a win win either way for me.

Have to agree with DB10 on wenger he did great till 06 - but time for him to go...Sadly his achievements will be overshadowed by his latter years of failure, also they've now brought in Bould in readiness for his departure...either he will move on up - or be the assistant manager to help steady things when the new manager comes in...

OBG, these players for these positions are required NOW! I don't have much trust in WS, if I'm honest, he's a fine keeper but needs competition, left back, well, it's looking like a defnite weak point of the team.

Bould was only brought in because of Rice's retirement, if he hadn't he'd still be there, so no, not in readiness for Wenger's overdue departure, unfortunately. It would have been nice if the club had done that, but nowadays they're just not that proactive, especially when it comes to freshening up glaringly obvious defiencies in the back room department.

Agreed frank, but and it's a small but - I know as does everyone else that Wenker will NOT be bringing anyone else in - after Cazorla( and hopefully Sahin)...which is a pity - as IMO it looks like he is no longer just trying to cover up the cracks - which is the case these past 7 seasons...but is 'making an effort to put things/deficiencies right, AND so yes, I agree - we still need another decent keeper - flappy will NEVER be god enough, we need a monster in mid-field and a proper LB...but if they do get brought in it won't be till next season - It should happen NOW! as you rightly say...sadly it won't - so as much as I am glad/relieved with the in-comings - there needs to be some selling of the dregs...and until that happens it is still (sadly) something of a half-measure.

[Herd]

Bottom line is, Wenger would not still be in his job in any other business after 7 years of failure and persistent failure to address recurring issues. There are so many 'problem areas' in his management over the past few years. I still don't believe Arsenal will move forward as a club until Wenger has gone. I believe that when Wenger goes, some of the board members may feel it's time to move on also and that can only be a good thing for the club as well. We need a complete change in the management structure to ensure we have the right ambition and dynamism required to make the club competitive and successful.

What Failures ??

To the management he has succeeded,the Bowl has been more or less sold out and we have qualified for the CL which had guaranteed income ,in company terms he is a roaring success !

Oh you mean winning Trophies ,sorry fella that isn't the Objective at Arsenal and hasn't been since the Shyster Fizman took over at the Club and then sold to Kroenke.

You can whinge at Wenger all u like but he aint going nowhere unless he fancies life at PSG

[highburyJD]

Bottom line is, Wenger would not still be in his job in any other business after 7 years of failure and persistent failure to address recurring issues. There are so many 'problem areas' in his management over the past few years. I still don't believe Arsenal will move forward as a club until Wenger has gone. I believe that when Wenger goes, some of the board members may feel it's time to move on also and that can only be a good thing for the club as well. We need a complete change in the management structure to ensure we have the right ambition and dynamism required to make the club competitive and successful.

What Failures ??

To the management he has succeeded,the Bowl has been more or less sold out and we have qualified for the CL which had guaranteed income ,in company terms he is a roaring success !

Oh you mean winning Trophies ,sorry fella that isn't the Objective at Arsenal and hasn't been since the Shyster Fizman took over at the Club and then sold to Kroenke.

You can whinge at Wenger all u like but he aint going nowhere unless he fancies life at PSG

the
'would not still be in his job in any other business after 7 years of failure' is ridiculous
and not just because herd correctly (although somewhat sarcastically) points out 'to the management he's succeeded'

what business do you work in?
in many many fields - finance, the military, politics and the media - failure in huge important roles is seen as important experience. Sometimes this is slack to the point of negligence but sometimes IMO its sensible.
Reality is the best classroom.
I'm sure many WOBs on here would argue Wenger doesn't learn from his mistakes, I think this close season has been handled better than the last one
who knows, proof will be in the pudding

The board having the aim of the club being sustainable is far from ridiculous

[northbank123]

Just watching Premier League Years 2008-09 (tough season to watch) and from THAT Spurs game onwards Almunia makes howler after howler, his mistakes costing us probably 10 points which is a phenomenal amount. How on Earth he manages to remain at the club for another 3 seasons (first choice for one and a half) is beyond me.

[highburyJD]

Just watching Premier League Years 2008-09 (tough season to watch) and from THAT Spurs game onwards Almunia makes howler after howler, his mistakes costing us probably 10 points which is a phenomenal amount. How on Earth he manages to remain at the club for another 3 seasons (first choice for one and a half) is beyond me.

agree 100%
for me Wenger's hardest to understand decision
(alongside Ji Sung Park)

[OneBardGooner]

Just watching Premier League Years 2008-09 (tough season to watch) and from THAT Spurs game onwards Almunia makes howler after howler, his mistakes costing us probably 10 points which is a phenomenal amount. How on Earth he manages to remain at the club for another 3 seasons (first choice for one and a half) is beyond me.

That WAS bad enough but listen to this useless *word censored* giving it large

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... r-wojciech

[highburyJD]

a player who wants to play?
struggling to see how this upsets you enough to multipost it everywhere...