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[kiwomya]

http://www.afcforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=35608#p35608

He had fair reputation with Monaco that he developed in France. Did quite well with them actually.

Ermm... Someone wanna tell Iceman that Wenger was sacked by Monaco after guiding them to a mid table finish? (Not to mention that he also got Nancy relegated) Sold all of Monaco's top players & replaced 'em with French-African kids along the way too. Sounds familiar!

Only focus on the negatives! You sound like that Babatunde character.

You didn't care to mention the fact he won the league with them...

[bunch]

My thoughts FWIW are that you should do it at a home game, and Sunderland would be the best. Stoke fans don't like Wenger and often sing "Arsene Wenger is a Wanker" in their dreary northern accents, and that tends to unite the Arsenal fans behind Wenger.

Doing it at an away game seems a bit like chickening out of the argument with the AKB cultists.

My first game of the season. Could be interesting.

[DB10GOONER]

http://www.afcforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=35608#p35608

He had fair reputation with Monaco that he developed in France. Did quite well with them actually.

Ermm... Someone wanna tell Iceman that Wenger was sacked by Monaco after guiding them to a mid table finish? (Not to mention that he also got Nancy relegated) Sold all of Monaco's top players & replaced 'em with French-African kids along the way too. Sounds familiar!

Only focus on the negatives! You sound like that Babatunde character.

You didn't care to mention the fact he won the league with them...

Mate - do you understand the concept that football is competitive? That it is a results-driven business?

I don't care what a manager wins with my club, if he then allows my club to sink away and get relegated. Sure I'd appreciate what he won but I would want him sacked immediately (but hopefully long before it got to that point).

Why do so many modern fans think a bit of success entitles a manager to a job for life?

Wenger is paid a fortune by our club (that's you and me in the end) to deliver success. He is not at a small club where he is paid moderately to deliver survival and maybe a good cup run. He is at one of *The Big Three in the highest profile league in the world and is paid millions to deliver success. It is that cut and dried. If he cannot do it to some acceptable level then he needs to go.

Scrapping for 4th every season is not acceptable.

*(The Big Three for me is still Us, Manure and the Mousers. Fuck the chavs and their couple of seasons of recent success. When it comes to tradition, history, fame, long term success, fan base etc THAT is The Big Three).

[Gunnersaurus]

My thoughts FWIW are that you should do it at a home game, and Sunderland would be the best. Stoke fans don't like Wenger and often sing "Arsene Wenger is a Wanker" in their dreary northern accents, and that tends to unite the Arsenal fans behind Wenger.

Doing it at an away game seems a bit like chickening out of the argument with the AKB cultists.

My first game of the season. Could be interesting.

They have to roll it out at Sunderland for two reasons.

1.) The media have announced it even though that was never the case, any U Turn would look the ultimate bottle job and destroy any credibility for the group.

2.) Lady Arse will steal their thunder and the media would report that as the message of the supporters destroying any credibility for the group.

Hands are tied now boys, time to stand by your principles.

[DB10GOONER]

My thoughts FWIW are that you should do it at a home game, and Sunderland would be the best. Stoke fans don't like Wenger and often sing "Arsene Wenger is a Wanker" in their dreary northern accents, and that tends to unite the Arsenal fans behind Wenger.

Doing it at an away game seems a bit like chickening out of the argument with the AKB cultists.

My first game of the season. Could be interesting.

They have to roll it out at Sunderland for two reasons.

1.) The media have announced it even though that was never the case, any U Turn would look the ultimate bottle job and destroy any credibility for the group.

2.) Lady Arse will steal their thunder and the media would report that as the message of the supporters destroying any credibility for the group.

Hands are tied now boys, time to stand by your principles.

I know it's easy for me to say because I'm not the one doing it but I agree with Gunnersaurus. If it is going to be done at all, it should be on Sunday. If not? Then maybe just drop it for all the reasons quoted from above.

[kiwomya]

http://www.afcforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=35608#p35608

He had fair reputation with Monaco that he developed in France. Did quite well with them actually.

Ermm... Someone wanna tell Iceman that Wenger was sacked by Monaco after guiding them to a mid table finish? (Not to mention that he also got Nancy relegated) Sold all of Monaco's top players & replaced 'em with French-African kids along the way too. Sounds familiar!

Only focus on the negatives! You sound like that Babatunde character.

You didn't care to mention the fact he won the league with them...

Mate - do you understand the concept that football is competitive? That it is a results-driven business?

I don't care what a manager wins with my club, if he then allows my club to sink away and get relegated. Sure I'd appreciate what he won but I would want him sacked immediately (but hopefully long before it got to that point).

Why do so many modern fans think a bit of success entitles a manager to a job for life?

Wenger is paid a fortune by our club (that's you and me in the end) to deliver success. He is not at a small club where he is paid moderately to deliver survival and maybe a good cup run. He is at one of *The Big Three in the highest profile league in the world and is paid millions to deliver success. It is that cut and dried. If he cannot do it to some acceptable level then he needs to go.

Scrapping for 4th every season is not acceptable.

*(The Big Three for me is still Us, Manure and the Mousers. Fuck the chavs and their couple of seasons of recent success. When it comes to tradition, history, fame, long term success, fan base etc THAT is The Big Three).

My opinion is that modern fans DON'T think of the manager having a job for life. That's what makes Arsenal unique. Look at Chelsea.

The poor performances and mid-season let downs blind people into thinking we are somesort of rubbish outfit.

If you only kept a manager based on trophies then the Premier League would have 19 new managers each season - you can only have one winner. Second/third/fourth best is proper frustrating but not bad considering what Arsenal are up against.

[Boomer]

This might be for Dan, (?)

Just to continue the banner campaign regardless of the flag. Is there a an original jpg or something?
A picture that can be uploaded to facebook and/or Twitter.

[DB10GOONER]

http://www.afcforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=35608#p35608

He had fair reputation with Monaco that he developed in France. Did quite well with them actually.

Ermm... Someone wanna tell Iceman that Wenger was sacked by Monaco after guiding them to a mid table finish? (Not to mention that he also got Nancy relegated) Sold all of Monaco's top players & replaced 'em with French-African kids along the way too. Sounds familiar!

Only focus on the negatives! You sound like that Babatunde character.

You didn't care to mention the fact he won the league with them...

Mate - do you understand the concept that football is competitive? That it is a results-driven business?

I don't care what a manager wins with my club, if he then allows my club to sink away and get relegated. Sure I'd appreciate what he won but I would want him sacked immediately (but hopefully long before it got to that point).

Why do so many modern fans think a bit of success entitles a manager to a job for life?

Wenger is paid a fortune by our club (that's you and me in the end) to deliver success. He is not at a small club where he is paid moderately to deliver survival and maybe a good cup run. He is at one of *The Big Three in the highest profile league in the world and is paid millions to deliver success. It is that cut and dried. If he cannot do it to some acceptable level then he needs to go.

Scrapping for 4th every season is not acceptable.

*(The Big Three for me is still Us, Manure and the Mousers. Fuck the chavs and their couple of seasons of recent success. When it comes to tradition, history, fame, long term success, fan base etc THAT is The Big Three).

My opinion is that modern fans DON'T think of the manager having a job for life. That's what makes Arsenal unique. Look at Chelsea.

The poor performances and mid-season let downs blind people into thinking we are somesort of rubbish outfit.

If you only kept a manager based on trophies then the Premier League would have 19 new managers each season - you can only have one winner. Second/third/fourth best is proper frustrating but not bad considering what Arsenal are up against.

But you see that (bolded) is not what I said. Only an idiot would use the criteria of trophies alone to judge a manager I agree. But Where Wenger has failed is he has not won a single trophy since 2005. That is 6 full seasons. Where he has failed even worse is his failure to address the same issues we have laboured under for the last 4 or 5 years - poor quality defenders/defending, lack of proper game-specific tactics, lack of a top notch DM.

Also, with all due respect, you have been a tad disingenuous by mentioning the other PL teams in that way (relating to trophies). The reason they don't have 19 new managers each year is explained in my post above. It's about expectations. Small clubs pay managers less to deliver less. Big clubs pay managers more to deliver more.

[Number 5]

The poor performances and mid-season let downs blind people into thinking we are somesort of rubbish outfit.

What. The. Fuck?

So what is it then, we're lulling all our rivals into a false sense of security over these last 4-5 years, giving them the trophies, glory and revenue before we embark on a spree to win every trophy there is to win for the next 5 years in a row.

We are rubbish right now and have been getting worse and worse season by season.

If you only kept a manager based on trophies then the Premier League would have 19 new managers each season - you can only have one winner. Second/third/fourth best is proper frustrating but not bad considering what Arsenal are up against.

Look, we are not Liverpool or Tottenham. A lot of people seem to forget that we haven't been trying to break into the top 4 for the last few years. We were well established in the top 2 teams of English football for a long time. We didn't have to spend vast sums to catch up because we were already there. We have been going backwards ever since and not really because City or whoever came out of nowhere. Before the end of last season they hadn't even made the champions league.

It is a weak excuse to say second/third/fourth best (and that's a lie cos it really is only 4th isn't it?) is not bad.

Arsenal were a top club. They have been dismantled by a raving lunatic on a ridiculous ego trip more than they have been overtaken by nouveau riche clubs these last few years.

With the right amount of investment (not uber millions but money that has been available) and the proper ratio of experienced players to unproven talent we could still be there.

That we are not comes down to one man. And his failures need to be rewarded with the sack.

[safcftm]

They have to roll it out at Sunderland for two reasons.

1.) The media have announced it even though that was never the case, any U Turn would look the ultimate bottle job and destroy any credibility for the group.

2.) Lady Arse will steal their thunder and the media would report that as the message of the supporters destroying any credibility for the group.

Hands are tied now boys, time to stand by your principles.

Not that my opinion matters much on an issue like this, but I think Gunnersaurus is spot on. Now that its been announced, I think it would look a bit like a backtrack if it wasnt displayed until later, if results pick up now and then it is shown the next time you have a bad run of form, the media will twist it that you were going to show it, didnt bother, were then happy whilst winning (I know you wont be, but thats how theyd twist it) and only showed it when losing again, theyd make you look like spoilt plastics tbh.

The point about her getting in first is valid as well- if she shows hers and you dont show yours, the media could twist it as "some arsenal fans suggested a protest but instead the message was clearly pro-wenger". At least if both are shown they'll need to mention the fact that the fans are divided.

I also agree with Herd that showing it against Chelsea would be a bit daft- I know its not your main rivalry, but personally I'd never give Middlesbrough the satisfaction of being there during a protest tbh.

Its best at a home game and the SAFC game would seem a sensible one to go for, especially as its on TV- even if they take it down quickly it might well be seen live by a load of people around the world (who will all be tuning in to watch us of course ). Give it to someone who isnt arsed if they get "abuse" from AKBs and who has mates to back him up, make sure if there is any violence that it is purely instigated by the other lot or else the publicity would be negative and make sure if the club go mental and try to ban the person with the flag that it isnt someone who has a ST and who cant stand the thought of not being allowed back

Good luck whatever you choose to do anyway lads

[kiwomya]

http://www.afcforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=35608#p35608
Ermm... Someone wanna tell Iceman that Wenger was sacked by Monaco after guiding them to a mid table finish? (Not to mention that he also got Nancy relegated) Sold all of Monaco's top players & replaced 'em with French-African kids along the way too. Sounds familiar!

Only focus on the negatives! You sound like that Babatunde character.

You didn't care to mention the fact he won the league with them...

Mate - do you understand the concept that football is competitive? That it is a results-driven business?

I don't care what a manager wins with my club, if he then allows my club to sink away and get relegated. Sure I'd appreciate what he won but I would want him sacked immediately (but hopefully long before it got to that point).

Why do so many modern fans think a bit of success entitles a manager to a job for life?

Wenger is paid a fortune by our club (that's you and me in the end) to deliver success. He is not at a small club where he is paid moderately to deliver survival and maybe a good cup run. He is at one of *The Big Three in the highest profile league in the world and is paid millions to deliver success. It is that cut and dried. If he cannot do it to some acceptable level then he needs to go.

Scrapping for 4th every season is not acceptable.

*(The Big Three for me is still Us, Manure and the Mousers. Fuck the chavs and their couple of seasons of recent success. When it comes to tradition, history, fame, long term success, fan base etc THAT is The Big Three).

My opinion is that modern fans DON'T think of the manager having a job for life. That's what makes Arsenal unique. Look at Chelsea.

The poor performances and mid-season let downs blind people into thinking we are somesort of rubbish outfit.

If you only kept a manager based on trophies then the Premier League would have 19 new managers each season - you can only have one winner. Second/third/fourth best is proper frustrating but not bad considering what Arsenal are up against.

But you see that (bolded) is not what I said. Only an idiot would use the criteria of trophies alone to judge a manager I agree. But Where Wenger has failed is he has not won a single trophy since 2005. That is 6 full seasons. Where he has failed even worse is his failure to address the same issues we have laboured under for the last 4 or 5 years - poor quality defenders/defending, lack of proper game-specific tactics, lack of a top notch DM.

Also, with all due respect, you have been a tad disingenuous by mentioning the other PL teams in that way (relating to trophies). The reason they don't have 19 new managers each year is explained in my post above. It's about expectations. Small clubs pay managers less to deliver less. Big clubs pay managers more to deliver more.

I agree that the squad issues haven't been properly addressed. For whatever reason (money, ignorance etc) it just hasn't happened.

Mate i'm not knocking your opinion but considering what has happened to the Premier league over the last 5 years I don't think we've done too badly. I won't for one second say that I haven't been frustrated during this time with the same things as everyone else - but I don' think we can complain. It's an opinion that many on here won't agree with!

I don't want to bang on about the "rich" clubs but without doubt it has caused a lot of issues for Arsenal.

[Gunnersaurus]

It's caused a lot of issues for the club but its also caused a lot of issues for every club so its no excuse, other clubs raised their game, we cried, basic errors have been made internally which has harmed the club more than City like learning to defend or adding to the squad when the odd player or two would have strengthened weak areas when the club was poised to win the title or atleast compete for it, City are not responsible for this, infact City have helped Arsenal by buying players who had no future at the club (excluding Nasri)

[Red Member]

[quote
Scrapping for 4th every season is not acceptable.

*(The Big Three for me is still Us, Manure and the Mousers. Fuck the chavs and their couple of seasons of recent success. When it comes to tradition, history, fame, long term success, fan base etc THAT is The Big Three).[/quote]

im sorry but you are living in the past.
Chelsea became one of the big boys in 2003
Manchester City joined this in 2008.

football success constantly changes. Liverpool were a small club dont forget until the 1960s. Everton historically were just as big a team on Merseyside. Sunderland had probably won more than Man Utd up until the 1950s.

[northbankbren]

[quote
Scrapping for 4th every season is not acceptable.

*(The Big Three for me is still Us, Manure and the Mousers. Fuck the chavs and their couple of seasons of recent success. When it comes to tradition, history, fame, long term success, fan base etc THAT is The Big Three).

im sorry but you are living in the past.
Chelsea became one of the big boys in 2003
Manchester City joined this in 2008.

football success constantly changes. Liverpool were a small club dont forget until the 1960s. Everton historically were just as big a team on Merseyside. Sunderland had probably won more than Man Utd up until the 1950s.[/quote]

I thought you said it was impossible? That with man ure, citeh, and chavskis money that it was....."impossible"?

Which is it? Because your argument seems to change quite a bit.

[Red Member]

Northbankbren,

in what way have I changed what I said??

we are in a totally different era now to the past. Some people like you still dont seem to get this.
Whilst billionaires bankroll City and Chelsea and Utd keep ahead with all their financial deals in place then yes it is impossible to challenge for the title at the moment. I don't know how things will look in 10 years time though do i? Nobody does.